To C or not to C?

[janz]

I am using Ku FTA on regular basis fort over two years and love the:
1. “Regular” posted on Lyngsat feeds,
2. Unpublished by Lyngsat steady feeds (min. few days on regular basis),
3. Random short life (few minutes, hours) discovered by frequent scanning feeds.

I am thinking about extending my fun by improving the equipment.

I can go in the three directions:
A. Improve and make more convenient to use Ku equipment
B. Get 6ft motorized dish and analog receiver
C. Get 6ft motorized dish and 4dtv receiver

Each option has different cost.
I can estimate cost of each option but I am not able to estimate usefulness of it for me.
I can see all the programming info from the Lyngsat site and the List and programming info for 4dtv but I am not able to estimate number of channels in category 2 and 3 when I use 6ft prime focus dish my Coolsat 5000 + analog receiver and optionally 4dtv receiver.

I know very well what I can get on the Ku so table with relative percentage numbers for C and unsubscribed 4dtv will be good enough for me.
If some experienced user interested in blind scanning of the Ku and C can fill the table below with the numbers I will be really happy.
I am not asking for exact numbers but for impression what the ratio is.

Feeds category // KU FTA // C FTA analog + DVB // C FTA 4dtv
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unpublished by
Lyngsad steady // xx% // yy% // zz%
(min few days)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Random Short life
(few minutes, hours) // xx% // yy% // zz%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Each row should add up to the total value of 100%.

Please modify the table if it can be made more informative.

Thank you

 

[Mr Tony]

4DTV is a different animal than DVB as 4DTV digital is usually fixed set channels. There is no blind scan on a 4DTV. What channels are loaded is what is there. When a channel is added you need to download the newest maps

If you go C-Band there are a fair amount of channels that are in the clear but tons of wild feeds both digital and analog. Analog wild feeds are the syndicated shows beamed up early in the morning (say between 5-11AM) for the affiliates to grab, insert the commercials and replay during the day.

 

[brentb636]

Ice,
As long as this subject is open, do you think that looking a C-band birds with a 1.2 meter dish is at all worthwhile ? I've thought a lot about C-band, but doubt I could get away with a 6 foot dish. I probably do have room to put up a 1.2 M on a pole, without irritating anyone.

Brent

 

[janz]

Thanks for the clarification of the 4dtv.
If we consider wild feeds from:
A. Sport events
B. Live news transmission

What is the ratio between Ku and C in each category (including analog and digital)?

 

[Mr Tony]

Ice,
As long as this subject is open, do you think that looking a C-band birds with a 1.2 meter dish is at all worthwhile ? I've thought a lot about C-band, but doubt I could get away with a 6 foot dish. I probably do have room to put up a 1.2 M on a pole, without irritating anyone.

Brent

it can be done but the really strong stuff will come in. The weak stuff obviously not. Its more of a hobby than something permanent

Check with ScottC...I know he does C-Band on a 1.2m

 

[qwert1515]

C-Band on a 1.2 Meter dish is not reliable but it is fun!

If you want C-Band on a 1.2 meter dish it is probably not worth it, but if you want strong Ku signals and a few C-Band signals then a 1.2 meter dish will work.

The main problem I have when I put the C/Ku combo lnb at the focal point of my 1.2 meter dish is the Ku band signal is about half of what I would get with a dedicated Ku lnb, so it is like having a 36" ku dish. (There are ways you can modify the LNB for improvements but I have not done them)

So I have placed my C-Band lnb on the side and I can pick up most (a few border line signal can not be picked up anymore but they were channels from South America that I could not understand anyway) of the signal I could get when the lnb was in the center.

I have enjoyed many feeds that I would not have seen if I did not have the C-Band lnb so I would say it is worth it.

The best satellites on my 1.2 Meter dish are: 55, 58, 91, 95, 97, 99, 107, 113, 116, and 121.

 

[brentb636]

Thanks, Qwert
I think this is in my future. I'd rather "fiddle" with this hardware than watch TV anyway, most of the time.



Brent

 

[scottc98]

I've been really happy with my 1.2m results. As Qwert said, getting the KU and Cband to focus correctly can be the biggest issues. I've made some modifications to my dish to maximize both (see my post on the 1.2m mod and attached pdf). I do think the biggest help for the Cband signal is the conical scaler ring. It has stabelized my SQ extremely well. There are some limitations as Ice and others have explained. Quite frankly, there are some channels that I just can't get with the 1.2m, that others can get fine with a7.5-10ft dish. Most of the channels people can get with the 6ft prime focus, i've beeen able to get with the 1.2m offset. Cband signals really don't need a strong SQ to be stable. it mainly determined by the FEC. 7/8 feeds need 40-46 SQ on my Classic NA. 3/4 FEC needs about 33 SQ +.

It does require a lot of tweaking, especially on a motorized setup. For example, to get BBC on G13, I have to motor to AMC11 (131) and then back to G13(127) in order for the mux to come in clear. Motoring straight to it from the east only results in 26 SQ, but going to AMC11 and back gives me a 33-40 SQ. Same with the PR mux on G16. Normally have to tweak it a little to get the sq up to 33-40. Once its there, its solid! Rain or Snow doesn't really affect the SQ, but the wind really does for me on those fringe SQ tps. Normally, if you can get signal up to 53 or higher, your good no matter what .

I know that a lot of people discourage the 1.2m cband, but I absolutely love it! Granted, I'm not going to get a 4DTV setup (but willing to test....hint hint anyone ) and I know that there are quite frankly some channels that I am just not going to get. Otherwise, I think that the WUT members have seen from my past posts that I can get a lot of the feeds that other Cband surfers can get.

Don't get me wrong, if you can go larger, please do!! At the same time, if you are patient and 1.2m is the largest you can go, do it

 

[goaliebob99]

If it was me I would do a C / KU combo all the way! Unfortunalty in my situation I'm limited to KU only because I live in an apartment building. IF possible and you want to do it, I would do a 8-10ft Cband KU combo setup with it motorized. There is alot of FTA HD up there that I would quite happy to have if I could have a Cband dish!

 

[brentb636]

Thanks Scott,
It sounds like the next thing for me !
It would add another dimension to the hobby , I think , with an affordable footprint. I priced out some equipment at Sadoun last night, and figure I'll probably drive over there sometime, to save the freight. It would be a long day for me, probably 9 hours on the road , but would save some $$$ .



Brent

 

[qwert1515]

Here's the link to ScottC's mod: (Posts #1 and #7) Fortec 120cm mod for the BSC621 LNB (PDF)

I think I am going to go outside and play around with my C-Band LNB (On my 1.2 Meter dish of course!)

 

[brentb636]

Thank you, young feller !!

Brent

 

[PopcornNMore]

I have been very happy with C band on my 1.2m dish.

 

[neftv]

I have a channel master 1.2 meter dish pointed at NSS806@40.5. The transponder I watch seems to be fairly strong that rain really have to come down by the buckets to lose it. I would love to make that dish steerable but I just don't have a machine shop to make stuff to make it happen.
I just wanted to add that I would be willing to pay (with in reason) someone who has done this to their same exact dish that has a machine shop to make the parts for me.

 

[janz]

I am glad that originated by me thread is so alive.
I have two questions:

A. Is the C as sensitive to the latitude as Ku? My position is 43.5 North. Do I have chance to get basic C with 1.2m Dish or I am to far North?

B. I have two possible positions for C dish. One is with the horizon 60-110. The other is with the horizon 115-140. Would I lose a lot with the horizon limited to 60-110? I am interested mostly in the sport and news feeds.

If it is really necessary I can go for high mast and get 60-129 but because of wind, easy access and neighbors factor I would prefer to stay as close to the ground as possible.

Thanks
Jan

 

[scottc98]

For sports and news feeds, stick to 60-110. 58 is a good sat too....wish a damm tree wasn't in my way

115-140 has a lot of cband channels, but they are mainly subs. You'll miss G23, which is a really good sat.

 

[Anole]

a bit off topic, but ...

Neft -

You are watching Ku or C-band on your 1.2?
(checking Lyngsat)
Oh, crap! They've got a hot signal into North America on C-band!

There are mounts you could buy for a lot less than custom-built parts at a machine shop.
Also, the H-180 motor should swing your 1.2 around like it was a toy!
The advantage is, it's a mount and a motor for about the price of a good motor by itself!

 

[neftv]

Neft -

You are watching Ku or C-band on your 1.2?
(checking Lyngsat)
Oh, crap! They've got a hot signal into North America on C-band!

There are mounts you could buy for a lot less than custom-built parts at a machine shop.
Also, the H-180 motor should swing your 1.2 around like it was a toy!
The advantage is, it's a mount and a motor for about the price of a good motor by itself!

Yea that bird is hot. It was replaced a few years back. A 1.2 would not work if the old bird was still there. I will check out that motor suggestion thanks.
I was looking at that Pansat myself. I just wished I could get someone to look a PAL signal being converted to NTSC and see how well that Pansat handles it.