TiVo and DISH / Echostar head back to Texas for another patent duel

[jacmyoung]

Of course TiVo wants a deal, the quesiton is whether Charlie cares. He had managed to drag the original trial on for years. The contempt issue by conventional wisdom should have been a swift proceeding, and yet he again managed to drag it on for 11 months so far and counting.

And if one heard the judge right, he would not rule on the infringement soon, and might need another hearing too to finally figure out this mess. When Charlie was sitting there listening to all this, what kind of message was he getting?

 

[MikeD-C05]

You have got to wonder how much money that this ongoing trials and lawsuits , fines , settlements are costing Charlie. I would think that just paying to license the damn software would be cheaper in the end. But I am sure that Charlie is hoping to out last TIVO and they will go under . Not likely now that they have deals with Comcast cable and Directv again. I think that TIVO software , at least some of it, would be a great addition to DISH software. Imagine being able to watch an event in one room and move to the other dvr in another and not have to sacrifice the picture quality in the mean time. DISH has the ability to watch it by coax but it is not great pq on hd tvs.

 

[mike123abc]

Charlie would probably jump at a fixed price deal with TiVo. The patent fights cost money, even if they win they cost tons of legal fees. Just a reasonable payment for patent licensing and lawsuit protection would be ideal. Charlie just does not want to have to surrender a montly per unit fee.

 

[jacmyoung]

How about clearing his name, because TiVo has continued to accuse him in the public that he still infringes.

 

[DishSubLA]

CHARLIE SETTLE ALREADY! The judge is giving you a big hint when he says: should make serious efforts to resolve this before I enter a ruling; encouraging you to do so. I sure hope that Charlie's stubborness won't be DISH's undoing.

All judges in civil suits ALWAYS encourage parities to come to some agreement before a judgment. It's not a hint as to how he may rule, just the principal that parities are better off finding some common ground for an agreement (yes, as someone else already posted, it lightens the judges calendar so he can move on), and agreements are always beneficial, to some degree, to all parties rather than a ruling that is usually a complete loss to one party. The judge is doing what they all do in such cases, "guys, it better and cheaper if you can come to some agreement."

 

[DishSubLA]

But this is Charlie Ergen who never settles sh*t. He wants it his way or no way. I can see him fighting to the bitter end. Anyone remember the national distants lawsuit and how that one went on for years and then Charlie still mangaged to get it his way in the end. Even though he lost the right to carry distant networks , he still is carrying them by leasing to AAD and selling the a transponder on his 119 sat and only DISH subs or those with Echostar receivers can see them.

Charlie has settled in the past (Gemstar/TV Guide, for one) and will settle, IF it is good for him as well as for the other party. The Gemstar/TV Guide settlement was good for both. Chuck paid a boatload of money, but got some things in return for it (this is why the TV Guide bug is on ALL of Dish/Echostar EPG's--Gemstar sued just about everybody and I believe that is why Tivo has the same stupid TV Guide bug: it was in the terms of the settlement). Charter, et al. cable co's. were sued as well. And Gemstar/TV Guide LOST the case to Echostar, but a higher court ruled that there would have to be a re-trail. 2 weeks later, Echostar and Gemstar reach an agreement and the suit is dropped.

It is a guess that Tivo wants TOO MUCH MONEY because they are desperate for it, and they have everything riding on this case because if they are successful, they have massive leverage to intimidate everybody else to cut a deal with them that will cost big $$$. If subsequent parties won't deal with Tivo, then Tivo will sue. This logic leads to the conclusion that Tivo will take the legal position that every other DVR out there really does infringe on their technology, an utterly silly proposition. Dish was sued by Tivo because Dish, at the time, had the most DVR's out in the market, and Tivo wanted a win against the biggest to use as leverage on everyone else.

In past negotiations between Tivo and Dish made public, before the lawsuit, Tivo wanted Dish to pay for all the advertising, among other things. It seemed Tivo wanted other parties to pay virtually all the costs while they collected the licensing fees. Does that arrangement sound familiar? It should because that is now Tivo's publically stated new business plan: dump the hardware biz, get other parties to pay for everything, and in return, Tivo allows the use of that company's current software (no threat of a lawsuit to keep using the non-Tivo technology) or they may integrate the Tivo software, while Tivo collects the fees. SWEET DEAL! Tivo is becoming one of those companies that makes money claiming everyone else is using their technology without a license agreement, threatens a lawsuit, then gets paid licensing fees, all the while not creating a single job nor product. That is the world today.

 

[Tyralak]

Charlie needs to just buy TIVO and quit fu@*ing around already. He has tried to take over Directv, Xm, Ion tv channel and GOD knows what else , but for some damn reason he keeps this litigation going with TIVO . If he would go ahead and buy the damn company he could use their software to improve our dvrs and make the DISH brand the best dvr on the market hands down. In the end he will have to license the TIVO software or there will be no more DISH to worry about. I don't see the court ruling for DISH at all. Charlie has a way of pissing off EVERYBODY. Just hurry up and end this misery for all of us.

I don't think putting tivo software on our DVRs would improve anything. It would just break them.

 

[Tyralak]

TiVo would instantly lose DirecTV, Comcast, etc. as customers. Also, TiVo has a poison pill.

Yes, yes. You and your "poison pill". Guess what? Echostar is way, WAY bigger. This so-called "poison pill" would be a nuisance, but doesn't prevent a takeover. Especially if they start buying up their debt like they did with XM/Sirius.

 

[Tyralak]

Buy em.
Pink slip em.
Liquidate em.

Buh by.

Yep. Problem solved, fly swatted.

 

[Thomas22]

Yes, yes. You and your "poison pill". Guess what? Echostar is way, WAY bigger. This so-called "poison pill" would be a nuisance, but doesn't prevent a takeover. Especially if they start buying up their debt like they did with XM/Sirius.

TiVo has no debt and $200 million in cash. Read much?

TiVo CEO:

In the midst of this financial crisis and economic downturn, one thing is clear -- cash is king and companies that are able to operate without debt are highly prized. TiVo is uniquely armed with significant cash assets, no debt, and a subscription business model that has been adjusted EBITDA positive for five consecutive quarters. We have paid close attention to the financial profile of the company and we believe that those efforts will pay dividends during uncertain times. More specifically, we came out of the third quarter with a strong balance sheet, consisting of over $200 million of cash and cash equivalents and no debt.

 

[TheKrell]

TiVo has no debt and $200 million in cash.

That is no poison pill. If you buy a company whose assets include cash, you get to use that cash however you like, including paying down the debt you owe due to your takeover.

 

[Tyralak]

TiVo has no debt and $200 million in cash. Read much?

TiVo CEO:

You think that will always be the case? Especially lately. tivo is a gnat that needs to be squashed. BTW, you do realize that Echostar/Dish are also run on a cash basis, don't you?

 

[Thomas22]

That is no poison pill.

Nobody said it is.

 

[Thomas22]

You think that will always be the case?

No. TiVo will have $500 million more shortly.

 

[Tyralak]

No. TiVo will have $500 million more shortly.

Doubtful. Not when their patent is found to be obvious.

 

[Thomas22]

Doubtful. Not when their patent is found to be obvious.

Judge Folsom ordered that there be no arguments concerning patent validity at the hearing. All references to possible patent invalidity were ordered struck from Dish filings. Completely irrelevant. Patent validity was ruled at the 2006 trial and upheld by the appeals.

 

[Tyralak]

Judge Folsom ordered that there be no arguments concerning patent validity at the hearing. All references to possible patent invalidity were ordered struck from Dish filings. Completely irrelevant. Patent validity was ruled at the 2006 trial and upheld by the appeals.

You obviously haven't been reading much. There is a filing with the US Patent Office to declare tivo's patent obvious and unenforceable. The trial will be over then. Continuing with it would be like a judge continuing a murder trial when the supposed victim shows up in court to say he's still alive.

 

[Thomas22]

You obviously haven't been reading much. There is a filing with the US Patent Office to declare tivo's patent obvious and unenforceable. The trial will be over then. Continuing with it would be like a judge continuing a murder trial when the supposed victim shows up in court to say he's still alive.

LOL. Judge Spencer knew that reexaminations can take 10 years. So does Judge Folsom.

Research In Motion on Wednesday lost two rounds in the long-running patent lawsuit that threatens to imperil the company's BlackBerry service in the United States.

U.S. District Judge James Spencer denied RIM's request to halt the proceedings until the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office re-examines whether the patents are valid. Spencer said judges are under no obligation to wait and suggested that the re-examination process could take up to 10 years, if appeals are counted.

Judge to RIM: We're not delaying this any longer - CNET News

On March 3, 2006, after a stern warning from Judge Spencer, RIM and NTP announced that they had settled their dispute. Under the terms of the settlement, RIM agreed to pay NTP $612.5 million (USD)

 

[jacmyoung]

LOL. Judge Spencer knew that reexaminations can take 10 years. So does Judge Folsom.

On March 3, 2006, after a stern warning from Judge Spencer, RIM and NTP announced that they had settled their dispute. Under the terms of the settlement, RIM agreed to pay NTP $612.5 million (USD)

Yeah but how much did RIM actually pay? Not much after all, and you know why? Because RIM continued to press the USPTO to reexamine the patent, and the USPTO agreed to a large extent, and things dragged on and on.

If the USPTO invalidates TiVo's patent soon, how can one say with straight face E* will still owe TiVo anything?

Now it is true that even if the USPTO invalidates TiVo's patent soon, the patent is still assumed valid, and TiVo may appeal, and that may take years.

But meanwhile, the court should stay the current action pending the final outcome of the reexamination appeals. Which was in part why RIM still had not paid much of the $600M.

 

[Thomas22]

Yeah but how much did RIM actually pay? Not much after all, and you know why? Because RIM continued to press the USPTO to reexamine the patent, and the USPTO agreed to a large extent, and things dragged on and on.

If the USPTO invalidates TiVo's patent soon, how can one say with straight face E* will still owe TiVo anything?

Now it is true that even if the USPTO invalidates TiVo's patent soon, the patent is still assumed valid, and TiVo may appeal, and that may take years.

But meanwhile, the court should stay the current action pending the final outcome of the reexamination appeals. Which was in part why RIM still had not paid much of the $600M.

Stop making stuff up. Rim paid the full $612.5 million dollars the same day the agreement was signed. Meanwhile, the patent is still being reexamined. Federal judges know it can take 10 years to reexamine and invalidate a patent.

Press Release

March 3, 2006​

Research In Motion and NTP Sign Definitive Settlement Agreement to End Litigation

Waterloo, ON - Research In Motion Limited (RIM) (NASDAQ:RIMM; TSX: RIM) and NTP, Inc. (NTP) today announced that they have signed a definitive licensing and settlement agreement. All terms of the agreement have been finalized and the litigation against RIM has been dismissed by a court order this afternoon. The agreement eliminates the need for any further court proceedings or decisions relating to damages or injunctive relief.

RIM has paid NTP $612.5 million in full and final settlement of all claims against RIM, as well as for a perpetual, fully-paid up license going forward. This amount includes money already escrowed by RIM to date. RIM, which is based in Waterloo, Ontario, had already put away $450 million in escrow, the amount of a settlement in 2005 that later fell apart. RIM will record the additional $162.5 million in its fourth-quarter results.

Here is the order to release the escrowed money and do a wire transfer: http://i.n.com.com/pdf/ne/2006/escrow_order.pdf