Thoughts on PCI DVB card...

[timmy1376]

I am really waivering back and forth between a PCI card such as the nexus and a STB like the 2500a. I want to know from the people who are using a PCI card, do you like it?

Do you get HDTV with it? how much?
What type of processor does it take?
Can you easily make DVD's out of the content?
Will it control a motor?

Let have a good discussion on this.

thanks!

 

[Cascade]

There are basically 2 types of DVB-S card, 3 if you count the USB variant which are very expensive but can be used on a laptop for mobile use, however the USB variety are basically the same as the first type.

The first type of card are known as "Software cards" It uses the host machines power to display video, has no TV out and are entirely CPU dependent. They're generally a lot cheaper than the 2nd type and don't have most of the features found in its bigger brother.

The second type, such as the Nexus and SkyStar1 have an onboard MPEG-2 decoder which lets you use a slower CPU such as a 500MHz P3, it has Video/Audio out so you can watch TV on another screen without tying up your computer monitor, an expansion for a CAM module and better software support.
The decoder can play DVD or MPEG-2 files onto your TV screen or monitor or both at the same time.
These can also be used in software mode to receive 4:2:2 feeds so you get the best of both worlds.

As for HDTV there's none that I'm aware of that is FTA, however they're both capable of HDTV decoding in software mode, so if Chuck Harder one day decided to go HDTV you're all set to go.

There are a number of programs for the PCI cards such as ProgDVB, most of them have better options for Diseqc than a STB, have time shifting/DVR features and allow you to directly record the MPEG-2 stream into a DVD compliant file.

The only feature I know of that isn't available with a card as opposed to a STB is the blind scan. Where a PanSat can scan a complete sat in around 10 minutes or so, you'll be waiting another hour (Or 20) Scanning the bird with a program such as DVBXtreme.
It'll likely become available when somebody writes the software for it but for now, the STB beats the cards hands down.

It all boils down to what you need. If you want relatively simple "Sit down and watch TV" Then go for a STB.
If you want to dig a little deeper on how everything is put together and don't mind messing with settings that'd make Linus Torvalds cry, then go for a DVB card, they can do everything a STB can do (Including motor support) And a lot more.

 

[timmy1376]

There are basically 2 types of DVB-S card, 3 if you count the USB variant which are very expensive but can be used on a laptop for mobile use, however the USB variety are basically the same as the first type.

The first type of card are known as "Software cards" It uses the host machines power to display video, has no TV out and are entirely CPU dependent. They're generally a lot cheaper than the 2nd type and don't have most of the features found in its bigger brother.

The second type, such as the Nexus and SkyStar1 have an onboard MPEG-2 decoder which lets you use a slower CPU such as a 500MHz P3, it has Video/Audio out so you can watch TV on another screen without tying up your computer monitor, an expansion for a CAM module and better software support.
The decoder can play DVD or MPEG-2 files onto your TV screen or monitor or both at the same time.
These can also be used in software mode to receive 4:2:2 feeds so you get the best of both worlds.

As for HDTV there's none that I'm aware of that is FTA, however they're both capable of HDTV decoding in software mode, so if Chuck Harder one day decided to go HDTV you're all set to go.

There are a number of programs for the PCI cards such as ProgDVB, most of them have better options for Diseqc than a STB, have time shifting/DVR features and allow you to directly record the MPEG-2 stream into a DVD compliant file.

The only feature I know of that isn't available with a card as opposed to a STB is the blind scan. Where a PanSat can scan a complete sat in around 10 minutes or so, you'll be waiting another hour (Or 20) Scanning the bird with a program such as DVBXtreme.
It'll likely become available when somebody writes the software for it but for now, the STB beats the cards hands down.

It all boils down to what you need. If you want relatively simple "Sit down and watch TV" Then go for a STB.
If you want to dig a little deeper on how everything is put together and don't mind messing with settings that'd make Linus Torvalds cry, then go for a DVB card, they can do everything a STB can do (Including motor support) And a lot more.

That is one heck of a reply. Thanks so much. I think basically I really want it so I can record a few of the WB shows off Galaxy 10R. I want better than VCR quality, so I was thinking of the hardware card to mpg2 then to a DVD for watching on the TV. I also like the ability to output to a TV.

I do, however, really want the blind scan ability. I do like to tinker with computer stuff so it might be a challenge. I have a spare AMD K62-350 but I would imagine that is probably not powerful enough.

As far as HDTV goes, will the hardware card help with that? or will I totally have to depend on the CPU?

 

[Cascade]

An AMD 350 with a hardware card should work as long as you don't have 300 background processes taking up CPU cycles.
The only work the CPU has to do is run the program itself, the card decodes video and audio. You could use a Linux distro called VDR which would be even better for a slower machine.

As for HDTV - the hardware card has no advantage over the software card in terms of decoding the signal.

If your goal is to record and watch sat/DVD on your TV I'd say go for the hardware card, recordings are fully digital with no analogue conversions or encoding so the broadcast you're watching on the satellite is exactly the same as the recording you'll make, 0 quality loss.
The TV out is superb too, captions, on-screen menus etc.
Remember that it's only a matter of time before somebody writes a blind scan feature into ProgDVB, there's already a blind-scan util for the software cards and I don't see any reason why the hardware card should be any more difficult to write for.

 

[PSB]

Great work Cascade!

 

[mkm4]

As for HDTV there's none that I'm aware of that is FTA

The networks ABC, CBS, UPN, WB are available in HD. There are also occasional sport backhauls that can be found.

 

[timmy1376]

The networks ABC, CBS, UPN, WB are available in HD. There are also occasional sport backhauls that can be found.

C or Ku band? I am limited to Ku.

thanks!

 

[mkm4]

C or Ku band? I am limited to Ku.

thanks!

Sorry, but they are on C band.

 

[timmy1376]

Another question for Cascade,
If I went with a software card like the Twinhan, if I try to just record PBS HD, will like an Athlon 700 work just to record? Kinda like a Directv tivo just saves the bit stream to hard drive? Or does it have to decode and encode the info to a file?

thanks!

 

[Cascade]

It depends which software you're using, some have features for using different graphs for decoding and stream writing.

The short answer:

If you can create or find a graph for your DVB program that saves the raw stream (PVA) to disk, bypassing any encoding/decoding filters then yes. Your 700MHz machine doesn't have a chance of decoding the PVA to an MPEG-2 file on the fly.

The long answer:

Skip this part if you know anything about graphs and encoding video.
In video and audio encoding/decoding a graph is basically a flow chart of where you want the output of whatever you're trying to achieve (Whether it be the card stream, a video file or audio stream) will end up as, I attached a graph showing how the stream is manipulated and to demonstrate my MSPaint skills..

With my hardware card and ProgDVB I have the option of disabling the decoder in h/w and s/w mode in record to free up CPU cycles.
As far as I'm aware the stream in software mode isn't a true multiplexed MPEG-2 stream so it'll probably save the file as PVA which contains the MPEG-2 stream as well as error correction and timing information which you'll need to strip before burning to DVD or playing from your HDD.

Basically, if you can find or create a plugin or a graph to let you record just the PVA from the card without displaying it onscreen or en/decoding it in any way you should be good to go,

Your system is probably quick enough for writing the bare PVA to disk, however it'll definitely fall over once you try to decode or play the file which is what I imagine will happen once you hit record unless you can save to PVA.
It'll certainly take a looong time to encode the file into something useable like an MPEG-2 on a 700MHz machine.

The best thing to do is to suck it and see, get Graphedit from:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/downloads/list/directx.asp

Or Google for the bare file because it's buried in a DX9 SDK
Try it out for yourself, it's easy to use once you get the hang of it and you should be able to import your homemade graphs into ProgDVB or any other program that supports graphs.

 

[mkm4]

Another question for Cascade,
If I went with a software card like the Twinhan, if I try to just record PBS HD, will like an Athlon 700 work just to record? Kinda like a Directv tivo just saves the bit stream to hard drive? Or does it have to decode and encode the info to a file?

thanks!

TSReader will allow you to record the original TS stream.

 

[Cascade]

If you have $99 to burn.

 

[timmy1376]

Cascade:
I should have my Twinhan tomorrow. Here is what I plan on doing.

1. I am going to use DVBPortal or ProgDVB. They both will record the .pva file you spoke of and DVBPortal will also record to .ts

2. My Athlon 700 machine will be the recording machine. I will also use it to check signals and occasionally watch tv.

3. I should have a new laptop soon that I plan to use VLC player to stream from the recorder to the laptop. Or occasionally make a DVD. I think I can get the laptop to hook up to my TV.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Cascade]

Sounds good, the Twinhan cards work well.
I only use DVBPortal once, I never really got into it so I stuck with ProgDVB.

I think you ought to buy my USB receiver to go with your laptop