Theoretical arc tracker

[colbec]

In an ideal FTA world there would be a means of setting up your dish on a motor and then traversing the arc with each satellite reporting in. For this to happen I presume that there would need to be a constantly active transponder on each satellite broadcasting a signal on the same frequency, polarity and symbol rate. Then if I set my dish on the easternmost satellite and request the dish move to the westernmost, with my receiver set to the common frequency, as the dish swings past each satellite on its traversal to the other extreme I would see the test card of each bird as it passes by. Then whenever you wish to test your motor setup, with one button press you just run past all the satellites in turn.

First, this might be a bad idea or fundamentally wrong, in which case why?

Second, you don't need all of them reporting in to test your setup, a small sample evenly distributed would do as well. Given the existing TPs and frequencies, how close can we come to a 'common' frequency?

 

[Anole]

wishful thinking

It's a nice idea, but wishful thinking.
The American FTA satellites don't cooperate at all.
Even on their own transponders, they don't have EPG.
See this thread for a list of hot transponders on all the birds.

About the only case where you can point and identify a satellite, is if you restrict your experiments to the Dish & BEV receivers and satellites.
There, you point any of their receivers to any one of their satellites, and the receiver will identify the bird.

Now that I read your wish list more closely, the subset you describe might work.
Just restrict your interests to: 61, 82, 91, 110, 119, 129, and 148.

I guess one down-side is that a 36" dish and a 0.3db LNB are sort of overkill for the DBS birds.
You could be off 2º and probably get a good signal from most of them.
So, using this idea to verify your arc-tracking might be useless.

And, since I subscribe, I don't even have a circular LNB on my FTA dish.

 

[glen4cindy]

It's a nice idea, but wishful thinking.
The American FTA satellites don't cooperate at all.
Even on their own transponders, they don't have EPG.

This is very true. However, this does not prevent the specs from promoting their receivers as having a ROBUST EPG. I have seen this on almost every receiver I have looked at, and have yet to actually find and EPG on any FTA bird!

 

[Whipskinny]

This is very true. However, this does not prevent the specs from promoting their receivers as having a ROBUST EPG. I have seen this on almost every receiver I have looked at, and have yet to actually find and EPG on any FTA bird!

So true!...... My hope is that someday in the near future the broadcasters would realize their legitimacy to the true FTA user and include EPG info.

 

[Anole]

Officially, that claim may be for Euro sales.
Unofficially, it's for hacker use.

 

[Tron]

The reason there is no guide info on most US FTA is that those signals are not meant for consumers, they are uplinked for other broadcast professionals (network affiliates, cable headends, news departments, etc.) They are not interested in viewership by consumers, only in their intended audience.

There are a few exceptions to this, notably many religious Ku services and the Globecast channels on G25, which are intended for direct-to-home audiences.

 

[mastermesh]

There's some educational channels on t5 that pop in with a guide on occassion as fta, but that's about it... realistically, if they all did have one tp dedicated to a test and it was the same frequency, that would make setups a heck of a lot easier, but it ain't gonna happen unless one company somehow manages to buy out all the rest, in which case, that one company ain't gonna last long since they'll be sued to death for being a monopoly.

 

[colbec]

Having experimented a bit I find that the system that suits me best, even though it is not one click efficient, is to take Iceberg's list of hot transponders (for the most part) as suggested by Anole and adapt it.

My criterion was to if possible fill the 'network name' box from the signal. This is important since then you can check with Lyngsat to see if the name makes sense on that frequency. Iceberg's list is good for about 75% of the satellites, but after some searching I found named TPs for all the birds except one, Satmex5, which is not of much interest anyway unless you have C Band.

I now have these named TPs as #1 in my list for each of the birds. Now if I go into motorized setup and start at one end I can go from one bird to the next and see green bars and a named TP from one extremity to the other. I have also noted Quality % for each one. This should be a good baseline from which to work when the frost comes out of the ground and I have to realign my setup.

I quite understand about the EPG, this is a broadcaster issue. To some extent you might say it is in the interest of motor manufacturers to have a cast iron way of testing an install, but in the world of FTA your testing routine might have to change overnight!

 

[Anole]

can't be done!

Nothing motivates people quite like telling them: "it can't be done!"
Congratulations.
You've come up with an interesting subset, and probably met all your stated goals.
We'll have to keep you around!

I now have these named TPs as #1 in my list for each of the birds.
Now if I go into motorized setup and start at one end I can go from one bird to the next and see green bars and a named TP from one extremity to the other.
I have also noted Quality % for each one.
This should be a good baseline from which to work when the frost comes out of the ground and I have to realign my setup.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

In an ideal FTA world there would be a means of setting up your dish on a motor and then traversing the arc with each satellite reporting in. For this to happen I presume that there would need to be a constantly active transponder on each satellite broadcasting a signal on the same frequency, polarity and symbol rate. Then if I set my dish on the easternmost satellite and request the dish move to the westernmost, with my receiver set to the common frequency, as the dish swings past each satellite on its traversal to the other extreme I would see the test card of each bird as it passes by. Then whenever you wish to test your motor setup, with one button press you just run past all the satellites in turn.

First, this might be a bad idea or fundamentally wrong, in which case why?

Second, you don't need all of them reporting in to test your setup, a small sample evenly distributed would do as well. Given the existing TPs and frequencies, how close can we come to a 'common' frequency?

There was an inexpensive consumer IRD at least 15 years ago that you set up the on the arc on one bird and hit the setup button and it would go across the arc and find all the rest of the birds and lock them in. It was made so that setup would be practically automated one the initial positions were known.

I am somewhat surprised, based on your statement, that it isn't done on the most current units.

 

[colbec]

HDTVFanAtic: If I understand correctly, in a sense it is done on current units. Since the arc is built into the geometry of the motor, once you are on the arc and have each of the satellites correctly set in software (USALS or 1.2), provided nothing changes you can forget it and always hit the channels you expect with no change in signal quality apart from atmospherics.

If you are suggesting that USALS can be set up by setting just one satellite longitude and allowing the receiver to calculate all the rest from that one, at least on my box that is not how it happens. Each satellite needs to be input separately. I guess this is good in the case that a satellite moves.

In my case the problem arose since my receiver was set up with a bunch of possibly relevant transponders that for the most part proved not relevant. I guess the manufacturer is trying to be helpful, but having been through the process it might have been better to have just one hot transponder per satellite and then leave me to do a blind scan in the actual location the receiver is being used to get whatever else might be active.

I realize now that my original thought about one common testing frequency is not a good idea. Where you have clusters of strong satellites it helps to differentiate between them if you can have totally different frequencies for testing, tuning out those that are blaring into the dish.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

If you are suggesting that USALS can be set up by setting just one satellite longitude and allowing the receiver to calculate all the rest from that one, at least on my box that is not how it happens. Each satellite needs to be input separately. I guess this is good in the case that a satellite moves.

That is exactly what I am saying was incorporated into at least one model in the late 80s to try and push easier setup.

Either you put in your zip code or city or coordinates (I really don't remember which from the reviews) and tweaked the setup on 1 satellite. Then hit a button and it went across the arc and located the rest.

Now remember that you clearly did not have as many Satellites in orbit then as you do now - and I would guess that it tracked to the next signal and assumed that was the next oribital position bird - probably not more identification than that.

Probably for that and other reasons (such as the change that was happening in the Industry with BUDs at that time, it was a feature that did not catch on to find incorporation into other models.