The future of Nasa channek Ku-band
- Thread starter magnigyro
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The Dish Network DBS signal on the 119° bird?
It's been in the clear for all these years.
I assumed it was some contractual agreement with NASA
Same for Angel One (or whatever they are called).
Nothing happened when Dish changed from Nagra 1 to Nagra 2 encryption, two (?) years ago.
I don't know of any reason it would go scrambled when the bring out Nagra 3.
(which they are now using on some services already)
They have the ability to use or not use any encryption on any channel.
It's been in the clear for all these years.
I assumed it was some contractual agreement with NASA
Same for Angel One (or whatever they are called).
Nothing happened when Dish changed from Nagra 1 to Nagra 2 encryption, two (?) years ago.
I don't know of any reason it would go scrambled when the bring out Nagra 3.
(which they are now using on some services already)
They have the ability to use or not use any encryption on any channel.
NASA is also ITC on the Eastern Arc in MPEG4, so I think Anole is right that NASA is probably requiring Dish to keep it unencrypted.
What I wonder about is why other channels, like shopping, are not ITC since they would want more people to watch. But I digress.
What I wonder about is why other channels, like shopping, are not ITC since they would want more people to watch. But I digress.
NASA has an agreement with Dish to have the channel in the clear. Angel One is the same way.
If you use an old Dish box you can get 101, NASA & Angel One on it. I use my old 5000 for NASA and that has a Blue (Nagra 1) card
If you use an old Dish box you can get 101, NASA & Angel One on it. I use my old 5000 for NASA and that has a Blue (Nagra 1) card
Just one caveat to this. Make sure you don't let the receiver upgrade to current code. My Dad was using a 301 with old code and a blue card to watch NASA & Angel One and had the "ask me first" setting. At some point after being unplugged for a bit or something like that it went ahead and upgraded to the newest and no longer works *at all* as it won't even map channels with new code and a blue card.
My brother has a 4000 he bought with "lifetime Sky Angel" and it was having trouble with finding 119 via check switch so he allowed it to upgrade. It stopped working at all as well.
So if you have an old blue card system that is working for NASA / Angel One, don't let it upgrade. Or at least not 301/4000 as those two models definitely break.
weird. My 5000 has upgraded as has the 811 (yellow card) and both get them just fine. They are FTA so any previously subbed box gets them
Yellow card ex-subs work fine for the two channels, but the blue card ex-subs were not even showing any channels in the list. In fact there wasn't even a list. Probably something to do with the revision of the blue card.
Fortunately my Dad has decent digital OTA now with RTN so he's not really missing NASA and Angel One yet.
Ex-DishNetwork receivers make good power supplies for the DP-34 switch. - :up
Otherwise, I won't have one in my system.
I've thought seriously about a system using up to three FTA receivers, the DP-34 switch, two Dish 105° FSS bandstacked LNBs on fixed or motorized Ku dishes, and maybe a C-band LNB from Sadoun, the B1satStacked.
Hell of a nice system, and a great use for those old, dead, Dish 301 receivers! -
Otherwise, I won't have one in my system.
I've thought seriously about a system using up to three FTA receivers, the DP-34 switch, two Dish 105° FSS bandstacked LNBs on fixed or motorized Ku dishes, and maybe a C-band LNB from Sadoun, the B1satStacked.
Hell of a nice system, and a great use for those old, dead, Dish 301 receivers! -
Yep, it's on 77w. I have a DBS dish pointed there for something else ITC and saw Nasa was on that bird.
The DP301-013's never used a blue (Nagra1) cam. Only the legacy and DP301-005 and 010s models did. There was a 'forced upgrade' when Nagra2 system was rolled out that made the blue cam irds FW compatable w/N2 encryption specs. They also changed the channel maps at that time. The 013s FW like Tony's were already Nagra2 compliant.
All Nagra1 stuff has been abandoned for all intents and purposes, so should be fair game for manipulating to work for FTA applications. Nagra2 is about to be in the same catagory, as is 3rd party (non Nagra3 capable) FTA FW.
For a tinkerer, it would likely be possible, and legal to get an outdated Echostar equipment based system working for the FTA content on 119, but not without considerable reasearch and effort.
There is even a version of Pansat (STi5518) based FW, that was born of 'patcheyeware' but does not include the decryption routines for DN and is being designed and re-wriiten for true FTA service for STi5518 based Echostar and DTV irds.
Yes DTV is DSS, not DVB, but again it's a function of the tuner chip and the values written to it's registers. Yes the DP5XX are 5518 based too, but I've not seen anything on development for them.
The author has focused on modifying Pansat FW to make a DN 301-013, also STi5518 based into a true FTA dvb receiver. The base code for the SoC system is fine, but there are a number of commands, tuner chip registers and remote codes that must be re-mapped, due to fundamental peripheral design differences. The 301-010s are LS2000 based and not code compatable.
Not full featured, or state of the art, but for the tinkerer, a definate challenge. I would be curious to see if it would function on C band. In theory, it should if properly configured, unless the 301 front end has additional bandpass filtering that normal FTA boxes do not, or there are tuner registers that get overlooked in the remapped code. As a dedicated, fixed satellite, single lnb setup, it would be hard to beat.
All Nagra1 stuff has been abandoned for all intents and purposes, so should be fair game for manipulating to work for FTA applications. Nagra2 is about to be in the same catagory, as is 3rd party (non Nagra3 capable) FTA FW.
For a tinkerer, it would likely be possible, and legal to get an outdated Echostar equipment based system working for the FTA content on 119, but not without considerable reasearch and effort.
There is even a version of Pansat (STi5518) based FW, that was born of 'patcheyeware' but does not include the decryption routines for DN and is being designed and re-wriiten for true FTA service for STi5518 based Echostar and DTV irds.
Yes DTV is DSS, not DVB, but again it's a function of the tuner chip and the values written to it's registers. Yes the DP5XX are 5518 based too, but I've not seen anything on development for them.
The author has focused on modifying Pansat FW to make a DN 301-013, also STi5518 based into a true FTA dvb receiver. The base code for the SoC system is fine, but there are a number of commands, tuner chip registers and remote codes that must be re-mapped, due to fundamental peripheral design differences. The 301-010s are LS2000 based and not code compatable.
Not full featured, or state of the art, but for the tinkerer, a definate challenge. I would be curious to see if it would function on C band. In theory, it should if properly configured, unless the 301 front end has additional bandpass filtering that normal FTA boxes do not, or there are tuner registers that get overlooked in the remapped code. As a dedicated, fixed satellite, single lnb setup, it would be hard to beat.
Thank you Melgarga, very interesting info, I have a Hughes Gaebo (STi5518 based), Long time ago I read about a procedure to convert it to FTA, I did it myself, I got Nasa on 119W and the other FTA channels there, but never can use that receiver on 123W or other birds...the reason: tuner latch on SR:20000
. I disappointed and put the box in the garage collecting dust... then I started to look for real FTA devices, Pansats 2500, 2700, 3500 and a Coolsat.Sounds like the Cuban modification project that was around in the 2002-2004 era. Did you have to do some trace cutting and jumpering to the tuner chip area to get it to work on DVB? That would (should) still be usable for NASA and Angel One on 119. It's a shame they encrypted the music channels now. It would have still worked for them now too. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that FW was based on a dump of a Blackbird.Thank you Melgarga, very interesting info, I have a Hughes Gaebo (STi5518 based), Long time ago I read about a procedure to convert it to FTA, I did it myself, I got Nasa on 119W and the other FTA channels there, but never can use that receiver on 123W or other birds...the reason: tuner latch on SR:20000
The fixed 20000 SR was the problem with that mod. This FW is supposed to allow full control over SR and freq, the end result being basicly a Panny 2500 in a 301 case that uses a Dishnet remote.................lol, at least for Ku service. Like I said, definately not state of the art, or for the plug and play crowd, but still something hobby related to accomplish. I can see one dedicated for the RTN's here and if C band works, I'd stick one on the NASA or ION muxes in a heartbeat.
I dont know if the Gaboa version is still being developed. Last I understood, it was released for beta, found to be buggy to non functional, but no further development AFAIK. I have a Gaboa around here somewhere, I might have to dig it out and see what the deal is. I havent seen anything at all on the DRD43X version for true FTA either.
It was a hack of existing FW, that's why it poorly works. Also, for FTA the IRD must have system tables of each sat/tpm/ch in a flash or better in separate chip like thru FTA receivers.
While re-purposing a Dish receiver for FTA might be an interesting project for the fun of it, a real FTA receiver can do far more (move a motor, manipulate channel lists, etc.), and they're reasonably priced.
That was, the price, the main reason, while the real FTA were round $100 dollars, used IRD DTV you get at $5 or less!
I never saw the file, or found enough info on it to make a determination. I had always presumed that it was based on BB 'pirateware', considering the time frame. It is reasonable to presume this considering that the BB FW would already have the decrypt routines present and the real task would be to convert the DSS mode parameters to DVB in the tuner chip, but I dont know that to be the case.
Regardless it was born of desperation from essentially a 3rd world country embargoed from any free world contact and technology, pretty resourceful to say the least.
The FW being rewritten for true FTA conversion is supposedly menu driven and all(?) features are accessed via the built in Panny 2500 GUI. I really cant confirm anything on it as I have not done the conversion. It is not high on my priority list of things to do.
Sure, that is true enough. $100 (or less now) should be well within the budget of anyone in this hobby, but as magnigyro said the cost factor is incomparable when they are 5 bucks at a resale shop or free from the apartment maint guy that is cleaning out a skipper's apt. I've got 4 or 5 around here and bet I dont have 10 bucks in the lot. I gave $1.00 for an 013 at a garage sale that had a N2 card that hadnt expired! It lasted about 2 weeks.
As to features and function, of course not, they dont even make the list of the 100 most wanted receivers. I've never seen a 2500, but the 2700 I saw was slow and clunky at best, so when you start there you dont have a lot to work with.
It is about the 'project' side of it, for me at least, but if I can set up a dedicated single sat system for my dad or grands for any PBS, Equity, RTN, WSTV, ION, BYU, TBN, maybe even the Aye&Eee's for the duration, and do it with a box saved from the dumpster and a free Primestar, all the better. Let it do C band and double the list of possibilities!
Besides all that, there are several layers of poetic justice here.....lol
1-Pirates hack DN ird with FTA based FW to steal service.
2-TFTA take pirates work, remove DN theft routines and use DN ird to get true FTA using DN hardware
3-CE does not like pirates [allegedly]
4-CE does not like TFTA [he wants everyone to pay for all TV]
5-Screw Charlie - TWICE!
6-Pirates give TFTA bad rep
7-TFTA take advantage of Pirates R&D and use for our purposes.
9-Screw Pirates!
If that dont make you believe in Karma, I dont know what will.
Charlie gets two screws, the Pirates get one, and we get another thing to play with to pursue our interest, which is subjected to abuse and slander from both of them.
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