The future of DVR?

[JasonW]

Is it me or is Dish about to make some significant strides with the 522 in relations to the DirecTivo?

- It doesn't require a phone line (the reason I switched, I won't pay 20-30 a month for a phone line just for Tivo).
- It is about to get PIP when in single playing mode.
- The guide is actually usable speed wise.
- It has a fairly large HD.
- It is about to get named based recording.
- Is leasable (a pro for some, con for others).

Although DirecTivo just came out with a HD version correct? I don't use HD though so that isn't important to me.

 

[AppliedAggression]

I agree, once the 522/721 receivers get name-based recording and it works just as well as Tivo's than they'll be better receivers.


On thing i'm constantly impressed by is the 721's speed. The guide is super fast and searches take less than a second.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

You do need a phone line for a 522 or the second tuner is disabled (or you pay $5 a month extra with no phone line to activate the second tuner)

 

[Hall]

You do need a phone line for a 522 or the second tuner is disabled (or you pay $5 a month extra with no phone line to activate the second tuner)

I think his point is, the receiver is fully functional without a phone line being required. The fact that Dish *chooses* to charge an add'l $5/month has nothing to do with the receiver working or not.

 

[Ken F]

Dish Network still has a way to go yet....got this off another forum:

Here are a list of essential recording features...:

1. Record two different cable or satellite programs at once;
   
   
2. Record one cable or satellite program while watching another live;
   
   
3. Record two cable or satellite programs while watching a recording;
   
   
4. Pause, instant replay, rewind, and slow motion for both live and recorded programming with a very high level of responsiveness (zero delay between time button is pressed and time function is executed);
   
   
5. All episode recording ("season passes") to record every episode of a program, regardless of the time it is showing, with the ability to automatically differentiate between new and repeat episodes (and ignore repeats if desired).
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
6. Wishlists / recording by keyword -- ability to automatically record all content that meets certain criteria (by certain sports team, actor, director, certain actor or director in a specific genre, or by specific keyword you input, etc), regardless of the date, time, and channel it is showing.
   
   With the Tivo, you can continually and automatically record all comedies with Julia Roberts, all action movies with Arnold Schwarzenegger, all dramas directed by Steven Spielberg, or all sporting events with the Washington Redskins -- regardless of the date, time, and channel.
   
   
   
   
   
   
7. Multiple fast forward and rewind speeds (4x, 20x, 60x or comparable) with built-in time compensation for overshoots;
   
   It would be rather annoying to fast forward through commercials, only to miss the start of the program following the commercial break (necessitating a rewind). To prevent that, the Tivo automatically skips back after you end the FFW while at 20x and 60x speed; the timing is such that you end up with the last second or two of commercials, even though you hit play (or the FFW button again, if at 60x speed) after the commercials had ended and the program had begun.
   
   
8. Automatic disk space management - automatically delete oldest recordings (that you haven't marked as "protected") in order to make room for new recordings; ability to specify the maximum number of episodes to keep on weekly recordings, and the maximum number of days or weeks to keep individual recordings.
   
   
9. Automatic bookmarks -- remembers where you left off in every recording when you do something else; for example, if you watch the first half of a recorded Stargate episode, then watch something else live or recorded, it will ask whether you want to resume or start over the next time you watch the Stargate recording. It should bookmark every recording, not just your last viewed recording.
   
   
10. Automatic conflict resolution -- if three or more shows conflict (i.e. are showing at the same time), it will record two based on the priority order that you have set. For example, a season pass for Stargate at the top of your list would have the highest priority for recording, while a season pass for 24 at the bottom of your list would have the lowest priority, in the event of a conflict.
    
    
11. Record from buffer -- if you're watching a program live, and at some point into the program (say, 40 minutes) you decide you'd like to watch it again, you can hit the record button and it will save the entire program -- from the time it began until the time it finishes.
    
    
12. Find by Title - easily find any program showing in the next two weeks, just by selecting the first few letters of the title from an onscreen-keyboard;
    
    
13. Folders / grouping for recordings -- ex: all weekly Stargate:SG1 recordings automatically grouped in a Stargate:SG1 folder and organized by date; all weekly Redskins games grouped in a "Teams / Redskins" folder;
    
    
14. Timeline graph -- graphical display showing where you are in the live or recorded program relative to the starting point and the end; this displays whenever you use a PVR function like pause, rewind, or fast forward;
    
    
15. Skip intervals or hash marks -- ability to easily and instantly skip forward or backward in live and recorded programming in longer intervals with one button press (ex: skip ahead or back in 15min increments);
    
    
16. 30-second skip button for commercials;
    
    
17. "Save to VCR" function -- ability to click on a recording and select "Save to VCR"; the DVR then turns on the VCR (or DVD writer), asks for a new tape (or DVD-R disk), and starts and ends the recording at the appropriate times using its built-in IR transmitter. At the start of the recording, it adds a screen with the program title and a description. Moreover, it does all this in the background using a separate set of composite outputs, without interrupting your viewing of live or other recorded programming on the DVR.
    
    
18. Manual recordings by date, time, and channel -- in the rare case that you need this.

How many of these is the 522 missing?

 

[stratguy]

You do need a phone line for a 522 or the second tuner is disabled (or you pay $5 a month extra with no phone line to activate the second tuner)

I guess that isn't the same for the 721 and I hope it never is. I have had the 721 for over a year and I have never had a phone line due to using cell phones.

They are charging me the standard fee I believe that it is 4.95. I don't know what I would do if they started charging me for 2 tuners I guess I would just pay it because I am very happy with the 721 and if I went with tivo you have the monthly charge of tivo. I could update thru my broadband service but they are still going to get that 12.00 or 13.00 bucks a month. So I don't understand Dish charging you just because you don't have it hooked up to the phone line.

 

[AppliedAggression]

You do need a phone line for a 522 or the second tuner is disabled (or you pay $5 a month extra with no phone line to activate the second tuner)

You're contradicting yourself there. Tivo NEEDS a phone line or it won't work right. The 522 doesn't need a phone line, but you'll be pay an extra $5 if it isn't plugged up. That's a huge difference, some ppl might be forced to have phone service for the Tivo alone, while others could just pay the extra $5.

 

[Ken F]

You're contradicting yourself there. Tivo NEEDS a phone line or it won't work right. The 522 doesn't need a phone line, but you'll be pay an extra $5 if it isn't plugged up. That's a huge difference, some ppl might be forced to have phone service for the Tivo alone, while others could just pay the extra $5.

With Tivo, you can use a $20 wireless ethernet (802.11) adapter instead of a phone line. Can you do that with the 522?

 

[AppliedAggression]

Dish Network still has a way to go yet....got this off another forum:


How many of these is the 522 missing?

Here are a list of essential recording features...:

1. Record two different cable or satellite programs at once;
   522/721 has it.
2. Record one cable or satellite program while watching another live;
   522/721 has it.
3. Record two cable or satellite programs while watching a recording;
   522/721 has it.
4. Pause, instant replay, rewind, and slow motion for both live and recorded programming with a very high level of responsiveness (zero delay between time button is pressed and time function is executed);
   522/721 has it.
5. All episode recording ("season passes") to record every episode of a program, regardless of the time it is showing, with the ability to automatically differentiate between new and repeat episodes (and ignore repeats if desired).
   It's been confirmed that the 522/721 will have this before the end of the year.
   
   
   
6. Wishlists / recording by keyword -- ability to automatically record all content that meets certain criteria (by certain sports team, actor, director, certain actor or director in a specific genre, or by specific keyword you input, etc), regardless of the date, time, and channel it is showing.
   Unclear whether 522/721 will have this ability. unlikely at this point.
   With the Tivo, you can continually and automatically record all comedies with Julia Roberts, all action movies with Arnold Schwarzenegger, all dramas directed by Steven Spielberg, or all sporting events with the Washington Redskins -- regardless of the date, time, and channel.
   
   
   
7. Multiple fast forward and rewind speeds (4x, 20x, 60x or comparable) with built-in time compensation for overshoots;
   522/721 has it, and even add 300x speed
   It would be rather annoying to fast forward through commercials, only to miss the start of the program following the commercial break (necessitating a rewind). To prevent that, the Tivo automatically skips back after you end the FFW while at 20x and 60x speed; the timing is such that you end up with the last second or two of commercials, even though you hit play (or the FFW button again, if at 60x speed) after the commercials had ended and the program had begun.
8. Automatic disk space management - automatically delete oldest recordings (that you haven't marked as "protected") in order to make room for new recordings; ability to specify the maximum number of episodes to keep on weekly recordings, and the maximum number of days or weeks to keep individual recordings.
   522/721 has it.
9. Automatic bookmarks -- remembers where you left off in every recording when you do something else; for example, if you watch the first half of a recorded Stargate episode, then watch something else live or recorded, it will ask whether you want to resume or start over the next time you watch the Stargate recording. It should bookmark every recording, not just your last viewed recording.
   522/721 has it.
10. Automatic conflict resolution -- if three or more shows conflict (i.e. are showing at the same time), it will record two based on the priority order that you have set. For example, a season pass for Stargate at the top of your list would have the highest priority for recording, while a season pass for 24 at the bottom of your list would have the lowest priority, in the event of a conflict.
    will have it by the end of the year
11. Record from buffer -- if you're watching a program live, and at some point into the program (say, 40 minutes) you decide you'd like to watch it again, you can hit the record button and it will save the entire program -- from the time it began until the time it finishes.
    522/721 has it.
12. Find by Title - easily find any program showing in the next two weeks, just by selecting the first few letters of the title from an onscreen-keyboard;
    522/721 has it.
13. Folders / grouping for recordings -- ex: all weekly Stargate:SG1 recordings automatically grouped in a Stargate:SG1 folder and organized by date; all weekly Redskins games grouped in a "Teams / Redskins" folder;
    not available, I don't believe the Directivo has this either.
14. Timeline graph -- graphical display showing where you are in the live or recorded program relative to the starting point and the end; this displays whenever you use a PVR function like pause, rewind, or fast forward;
    522/721 has it.
15. Skip intervals or hash marks -- ability to easily and instantly skip forward or backward in live and recorded programming in longer intervals with one button press (ex: skip ahead or back in 15min increments);
    not available
16. 30-second skip button for commercials;
    522/721 has it.
17. "Save to VCR" function -- ability to click on a recording and select "Save to VCR"; the DVR then turns on the VCR (or DVD writer), asks for a new tape (or DVD-R disk), and starts and ends the recording at the appropriate times using its built-in IR transmitter. At the start of the recording, it adds a screen with the program title and a description. Moreover, it does all this in the background using a separate set of composite outputs, without interrupting your viewing of live or other recorded programming on the DVR.
    522/721 has it.
18. Manual recordings by date, time, and channel -- in the rare case that you need this.
    522/721 has it.

Now for what the 522/721 has that the Tivo doesn't:

Fast program guide

Small resized picture of the program being watched in the corner of the guide

Caller ID

PIP

Bigger HD

300x Fast Forward

Browse fuction while watching a program

Two seperate TV outputs (522)

---
I'm not trying to start a war here between the Tivo and Dish receivers but personally I'm tired of hearing that the Tivo is so much better. I'll take my 721 over a Tivo anyday. The pure slowness of the Tivo pisses me off, and the guide is just awful. I'm not trying to say that the Dish PVRs are better, but for my personal use, I much rather have a 522/721.

 

[SimpleSimon]

And let's add that the 921 has everything the 522/721 does PLUS it records HD.

 

[Stargazer]

I have a list of features that people have requested on my website at the link below. I read over all of these posts and record it to my site if I find any new features. If anybody finds anything on my site that needs updated then tell me so I can do so. There is so much on there that it can be hard to keep up with, because of all the changes.

 

[dbronstein]

I can only speak for the 721, but IMO the only "essential" feature the 721 is missing is name-based recording. Season pass, wish lists, folders, etc. are "nice to have" features, but not essential IMO. I know they keep saying NBR/season pass is coming, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

As for the list itself, I have no idea who wrote it, but why did he stop at two tuners? I would think the "ultimate" PVR would have 4 or 5 tuners to really minimize the conflicts.

 

[Chris Freeland]

At one time not long ago I was ready to switch to D* for a Tivo when I am in position to re-activate satellite again. Since then E* has announced that Name Based Recording will be added by the end of the year and that the 522 and 322 will be available to current and returning subs on a lease program similar to DHA starting in August, with Name Based Recording combined with the larger 120G HD and 2 output capability, I will now likely remain loyal to E* for the foreseeable future. Now if E* could get their DVR's as stable as D*Tivo, life would really be good in E* land .

 

[dishrich]

Is it me or is Dish about to make some significant strides with the 522 in relations to the DirecTivo?

- It doesn't require a phone line (the reason I switched, I won't pay 20-30 a month for a phone line just for Tivo).

You ONLY need a phone line for the D-Tivo on the initial setup, & for some software updates - BUT, that will be changing on next release 4, where then ALL new D-Tivo updates come through the dish.

So, that blows the phone line advantage away...

 

[GaryPen]

With Tivo, you can use a $20 wireless ethernet (802.11) adapter instead of a phone line. Can you do that with the 522?

Is that with the DirecTivo? (as opposed to stand-alone.) That's way cool!

 

[JasonW]

You ONLY need a phone line for the D-Tivo on the initial setup, & for some software updates - BUT, that will be changing on next release 4, where then ALL new D-Tivo updates come through the dish.

So, that blows the phone line advantage away...

DirecTV still requires you to have the phone line and will do so after release 4, I called and checked before I left. With Dish at the moment it costs me $5 a month but I don't have to have one. Besides if you still need to have the phone line for the inital install and update that is still an issue for people who simply don't have a land line. I have no intent of dragging my entire sat system over to a firends just to plug in the phone line, even if it is just for the inital set up. I pay them good money, I shouldn't have to perform work arounds like that. BTW, Tivo updates already come through the sat dish (I am almost positive about this), the phone line is for checking in and uploading your viewing habbits and PPV orders, another thing I am happy I can pay $5 a month and avoid. If your DirecTivo fails to check in after a certain amount of time it disables DVR functions, quicker if you have used PPV and it can't report it. This is, of course, assuming you have a normal unhacked DirecTivo. I think mine went 2 weeks once before it finally started displaying warnings and disabling DVR functions.

The wireless USB ethernet or normal USB ethernet on DirecTivo doesn't work unless you want to hack your Tivo. It will work on a SA Tivo.

I like the list of Tivo features posted above and the responses. To tell you the truth though most of the features listed arn't ones I am interested in. I had my DirecTivo for 2 years and never once used a wishlist. *shrug*, That is just me though.

Don't get me wrong, the DirecTivo is a fine unit. I am honestly not trying to say DirecTivo is -bad-, I am saying I am impressed with some of the features and such about to come out on the 522.

 

[Stargazer]

Perhaps Dish Network announced that they were releasing the Name Based Recording feature so that some customers would not switch to DirecTv (particularly local markets that DirecTv is going to get in some areas giving the customer another reason to switch to DirecTv).

 

[dishrich]

DirecTV still requires you to have the phone line and will do so after release 4

Then WHY are there many other folks on these boards that would disagree with you, that have NOT had phone lines hooked up for months now, like this guy:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=19059

Yes, you get a nag screen, but it does NOT disable your DVR functions - you are incorrect on this one & I have a couple of customers that are like this as well. Further, the DVR is enabled/disabled through the satellite & NOT the phone as well

I called and checked before I left.

Who DID you call - if it was D*, of COURSE they are going to TELL you this, (duh) but if you DO call up & tell them after the fact you DON'T have a land line, then they will just turn PPV off on your box - they do this all the time.

BTW, Tivo updates already come through the sat dish (I am almost positive about this),

Guide updates DO, software updates DON'T - again, it WON'T be until release 4 that the software ones do.

I think mine went 2 weeks once before it finally started displaying warnings and disabling DVR functions.

This WAS true on previous software - again, it is NO LONGER TRUE

If you, in fact, are NO longer using one of these units, how do YOU know these things are true or not??? (other than your phone call to D*)

 

[Ken F]

Is that with the DirecTivo? (as opposed to stand-alone.) That's way cool!

802.11 is only supported with a hack, unfortunately -- for now. A number of the standalone Tivo 4.0 features are available on the DirecTivos with hacks -- like folders.

 

[dlsnyder]

Now if your Tivo could record from any connected tuner on your home network THAT would be a cool feature! Think of it - no more conflicts ever. Your only limitation on the number of shows you could record at once would be the number of tuners you had activated on your network. All tuners record to a central unit and all recorded programs are simultaneously available on all networked tuners. That could be where the technology is ultimately headed.