SuperDish Feed Mod Project

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sidha

SatelliteGuys Family
Original poster
Apr 26, 2005
97
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Wisconsin
A project I've been planning to do before winter, has finally happened. The goal: to modify a 121 SuperDish to receive G-18 FTA at 123 degrees instead of G-23 at 121, while keeping the 110 and 119 degree feeds original, for NASA, ect.

The Ku FSS feed is married to the 110 DBS feed at the manifold waveguide assembly. I divorced the pair [casting] with a hacksaw. To reconfigure, I rotated the front Ku feedhorn 180 degrees before reattaching to the manifold assembly, repositioned two degrees off center at an increased distance from the 110 & 119 DBS feeds. My photos illustrate how this feat was accomplished without additional hardware. Just some hacksawing, a couple freshly drilled screw holes on the flange, and a slight focal point readjustment by bending slightly inward on the Ku-FSS manifold lower support bracket. I plan on fabricating small covers of some sort to protect the open feedhorns when my testing is complete.

The results were as expected for a 36X20 inch dish. A slight loss of Ku efficiency from the stock configuration, due to having offset the Ku feed two degrees from optimum center. To avoid contributing to Ku efficiency loss on a marginal dish that already struggles with weaker transponders, I considered moving only the two DSS feeds, a more complex and time consuming procedure probably not worth the extra effort in the end. But since I have a pile of these dishes, I may give it a curious try, before winter.

Clear sky results at Eau Claire Wisconsin:
11720-V.... 55% Quality
11805-H.....65%
12114-V.... 60%
11800-V.....30% [A bit weak and borderline on a stock Superdish as it is.]

110 & 119.... most transponders are over 95%.

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Below is my custom built signal level meter. As you can see, the enclosure is an old C-band LNBF, modified, using the original IF cascade amps and voltage regulator; added a second coax fitting, signal detector, potentiometer level control, analogue meter, plus a dual LED indicator to monitor 14/18 H/V voltage level switching and DiSEqC burst /22K activity. It works great. The sensitivity range is awesome.

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Good photography, from many angles.
Even those tiny pictures show all the secrets of your design.

:up - Two thumbs up for a fine project. - :up
Just the thing I love here on the forum!


Will look forward to any changes, where you put the FSS LNB on bore sight.
The 119° LNB can be off-center without significant loss.
And 110° isn't really useful for FTA.

Or, maybe consider -two- of those 121 FSS LNBs, and aim elsewhere... :eureka
Ya just might have something for the 97/101 crowd, if the SuperDish can collect enough signal.
 
Good photography, from many angles.
Even those tiny pictures show all the secrets of your design.

:up - Two thumbs up for a fine project. - :up
Just the thing I love here on the forum!


Will look forward to any changes, where you put the FSS LNB on bore sight.
The 119° LNB can be off-center without significant loss.
And 110° isn't really useful for FTA.

Or, maybe consider -two- of those 121 FSS LNBs, and aim elsewhere... :eureka
Ya just might have something for the 97/101 crowd, if the SuperDish can collect enough signal.


Thanks. I tried to eliminate all speculation on how to duplicate my results, and to generate maximum interest. As far as receiving AMC-4 and G-25 by using two Ku LNBF's, the G-25 bird would demand center position. Whereas AMC-4, if desired for Angel Network, could be intercepted on the outer fringe of a 10 degree offset without an issue. Certainly possible for a bouquet which runs the hottest Ku transponder I've ever seen, consistantly exceeding 50 for quality even with an 18 inch DBS dish retrofitted with Ku hardware. And even when using my less efficient modded circular DSS LNBF, converted at the DRO and waveguide to permit reception in the linear Ku band.

BTW, last I looked, and it's been awhile, there still were a couple music channels on 110. A Karaoke style type of format, might remain in the clear. Not much, but still something. My objective was to try to successfully separate the casting that fixed the FSS and primary DBS LNBF's at 2 degrees of separation. I already pondered what's necessary to replace the DBS unit with another FSS to allow dual bird Ku access at the original 2 degree spacing, and some new possibilities when using my 4 degree conversion.

-sidha
 
Two degrees, eh? So, you're going after 123°/125°?
Might be a challenge from the north east, but I'll cheer ya on! :up

Here are several good reads that should encourage you:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WescoPC and his 2 degree spacing: http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/151258-building-1-2-meter-dish-2-spacing.html

Read pages 4 & 5 of the AMC 21 thread: http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/150263-amc-21-a-4.html
Discusses the LNB spacing you need, depending on where you are in North America.

If you should wind up with too many bandstacked LNBs, consider this DP-34 thread: http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/153328-dp-34-switch-bandstacked-lnbfs.html

Oh, one last reference. Some time ago, JerryT in Florida, sawed those feedhorns apart and put 'em on his T-90 to get 2°
A search on his name and T90 should find it, for anyone interested.

Great work! - :up
I really look forward to more pictures... and don't be shy about making 'em a little bigger. ;)


edit: two things that I've read which you might want to consider -

- The tiny round DBS feedhorn & pipe on the 121/119 pair, apparently converts the circular signal to linear.
So, you cannot use that hardware for linear FTA.
If you want two linear birds, you need to use two of your oval feedhorns.

- the little oval feedhorn on the 121 LNB gets less signal than the larger feed of the P870 Eagle Aspen LNB which Global-CM sells.
That comes from JerryT, in one of his threads.
He also said the P870 is a bit better than the bigger round feedhorn off the 105° birds, too.
If you're going for 4° spacing on weak signals, it might be worth a consideration.

These notes are to the best of my memory and understanding, and intended to encourage, not discourage.
Of course, whatever you find will be interesting, too.
 
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I had signal interference from 125 when it fired up on 123 with a modified SD. Went to a Primestar, Q went up quite a bit. The SD still works great for 129, 74, etc.
 
- The tiny round DBS feedhorn & pipe on the 121/119 pair, apparently converts the circular signal to linear.
So, you cannot use that hardware for linear FTA.
If you want two linear birds, you need to use two of your oval feedhorns.

It's time to put that limitation to rest, again:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/30141-amc4-received-18-dish-post275545.html#post275545
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/30141-amc4-received-18-dish-post275545.html#post273884
 
I thought I'd read JerryT make the comment, but upon reading your very old thread:
And they did not have removable dielectric wedges, but instead had a shaped form that was molded as part of the cast metal feedhorn throat. I removed all of it by using a file, after removing the entire circuit board to clear the work area. It's not that difficult to do.
I know I've read your DRO mod postings some time in the past.
But probably didn't recall the quote above.

At any rate, I've looked down the throat of some old DBS LNBs, and seen a cast-in stair-case looking structure.
I assume that's what does the trick.
May have run across the same internals during a discussion with Linuxman concerning reusing DTV feedhorns on an old Primestar LNB.
Don't have the little round-horn off a 121 superdish, but from what I'd read, it works the same way.

Didn't realize it was that easy to remove the structure.
The one I have here looks like it'd be a lot of work with a hand grinder...
Thanks for the info.



Oh, and your two links took me to the same post. I think it may have something to do with the way the forum works.
 
[...]

At any rate, I've looked down the throat of some old DBS LNBs, and seen a cast-in stair-case looking structure.
I assume that's what does the trick.
May have run across the same internals during a discussion with Linuxman concerning reusing DTV feedhorns on an old Primestar LNB.
Don't have the little round-horn off a 121 superdish, but from what I'd read, it works the same way.

Didn't realize it was that easy to remove the structure.
The one I have here looks like it'd be a lot of work with a hand grinder...
Thanks for the info.

Oh, and your two links took me to the same post. I think it may have something to do with the way the forum works.

Or the way your mouse works. The posted links are fine for me.
The stepped structure is called a septum, sometimes curved. Only found one [DTV] with a dielectric wedge insert - an easy mod job. The theory behind the device is interesting.

Dual circular polarization waveguide system - Patent 6839037
.
.
 
Or the way your mouse works. The posted links are fine for me.

I don't see what his mouse has to do with it.

They both go to post #38 for me using Firefox, both are pointed at 275545.

hXXp://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/30141-amc4-received-18-dish-post275545.html#post275545
hXXp://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/30141-amc4-received-18-dish-post275545.html#post273884

If I correct the second link to use 273884 I get this working link to post 30:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...4-received-18-dish-post273884.html#post273884

edit: my link is not technically correct either. As mentioned above the forum works slightly odd in this case. If you go in via a permalink to a post, the permalink for another post is not exactly right. The correct link shouldn't have the postxxx.html just the page:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/30141-amc4-received-18-dish-2.html#post273884
 
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I read the entire 3-page thread, with an eye to all posts in it by Sidha, so I'm good. :)

Regarding the small-horn half of the 121°/119° feedhorn, does it have mechanical protrusions inside it?
I don't have one, and so haven't had the opportunity to look.
If removing 'em is all it takes, that's interesting.

I have a horn off the 105° FSS LNB, and it's none too large inside.
Would have thought the interior surface was critical.

Looking forward to trying your mod on an old DTV LNB.
Got a buddy with a lathe (and a big drill press).
Will have to see which he suggests.

Sorry we got sidetracked, here.
The mods to the dish, and LNB relocations are very informative.
Please continue with those. - :up
 
Here's a shot from my recently acquired superdish 121. it is not pointed at anything. :)
 

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