Super Joey tuners go AWOL daily

[Thoth]

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum and have been searching for information about this issue with no luck. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

I've been a dish customer for over 10 years, and a few months ago I upgraded to a Hopper-Joey-Super Joey system. In the course of exploring the various features, I soon discovered that the two SJ tuners were often missing in the TV Activity list (red button). Restarting the SJ would always fix it immediately, but I tested and tightened all of my cables anyway and kept an eye on the problem. I soon discovered that it was happening every night (presumably during the upgrade window?). Called Dish, and they sent the tech back out to do what I had already done - test the installation and confirm it was good. He also decided to replace my LNB, though I don't think that had anything to do with it. Next they sent a new SJ, which actually seemed to fix the problem for a couple of days, but then no joy. Frankly I had been really busy with work and didn't feel like screwing with it, so I just got in the habit of restarting the SJ every morning.

Now I would really like to get this resolved because we DVR a lot of stuff and have missed some recordings due to lack of tuners when I forget the daily reboot. It seems that the gurus on these forums get to the heart of things much better and quicker than the CSR's at Dish, so I'm hoping for advice.

I own and operate a network engineering firm and am pretty good at troubleshooting. I have re-verified my hookups in an attempt to isolate a bad cable, node, splitter, integrator, etc. and can find nothing that tracks. Every morning those tuners are just gone. Restarting the SJ always brings them back immediately, and they work just fine until their next nightly escape.

Sorry to be so long-winded. Anyone have ideas? Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Hall]

The behavior didn't change at all when the SJ was replaced ? The tuners are still missing each morning and rebooting the SJ "fixes" it ?

 

[Thoth]

Thanks for the reply, Hall. Yep, couldn't have said it better myself. They are MIA every morning like clockwork, and rebooting the SJ makes them come (and stay) back - until the next morning. Completely predictable and repeatable. They have replaced the SJ but not the Hopper. Could it be the Hopper itself?

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

Did you replace the node?

 

[Thoth]

Hi WiCkeDuDe. Nope, only thing replaced so far was the SJ. I didn't suspect the node because everything works perfectly all day long, under all circumstances, until the nightly disappearance. I guess I thought that the behavior would be more random if it was a flaky node, so I was more focused on a possible software issue. I don't suppose it would hurt to give it a try, but man my attic is hot here in central Texas right now!

 

[Hall]

Replacing the LNB for an issue like this would make me wonder.... I don't know the rules or troubleshooting but the tech may have thought "reception issues" and the LNB is often a go-to item. To me, reception issues have to impact ALL receivers before the LNB could be to blame. Did he/she also cut the ends off of all the accessible cable runs and put on new connectors ?

If it's like clockwork, like you say, I can't see it being hardware-related. Could it be heat (too hot) and the node or integrator is being impacted ? I would think it would be hotter in the late afternoon/early evening vs in the middle of the night in your attic. If it were software-related, it should be affecting others and I could have missed a thread or post here, but I haven't seen any myself.

 

[Thoth]

Your thoughts match mine - LNB and other hardware issues don't make sense. Heat would be a suspect but (like you pointed out) the problem isn't happening in the hottest part of the day. For example, I rebooted this morning and everything is up right now, even though it is pushing 100 outside and is like the surface of the sun in the attic. Also, this has been going on for a long time, including late winter. The tech didn't re-terminate the cables, but I did (I am a network engineer with a lot of experience in cabling, RG6 included) and I would bet large sums that the cabling is perfect. All of my stuff comes into a central wiring closet with HDMI home runs out to the rooms, so this allowed me to actually swap the cable runs between the Hopper/Joeys and the node/splitter/integrator in the attic, and the problem never changed. I used the actual Dish Network technical documentation to verify that the installer did my hookups correctly and that I have kept it right. I'm totally stumped.

I keep coming back to the nightly update window.on the Hopper. I'm rarely up at that time to watch it, but a few months ago I did fall asleep on the couch and woke up to see the "receiver is going to shut down to check for updates" message, which I cancelled to keep the show on (don't ask me to remember what I thought was so interesting at 3:00 AM!) Well, the next morning when I began my daily SJ reboot ritual, all the tuners were present and accounted for. I have been meaning to try and reproduce that, but haven't had the dedication to stay up and try it. Besides, I don't know what the fix would be anyway.

Thanks for all the brainstorming and please keep the thoughts coming! At least it proves that I'm not missing something obvious. I was hoping for someone to say "Yeah dummy, this happens all the time. Push red and green simultaneously, then 1-6-4-3-3-8-2-1, then OK while standing on one foot and swinging a rubber chicken over your head. That'll fix it." Guess that would have been too easy. Starting to think maybe I just need them to send a new Hopper, but I really hate just changing parts and never really knowing the answer!

 

[Hall]

Hmmm, so when the Hopper reboots, the SJ isn't re-linking properly it appears... ? Next time it happens - tomorrow morning, right? - from the Hopper, hit Menu 2x, then "Linked Joeys" and see what it says. Check the details menu as well.

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[Thoth]

Thanks Hall, I'll definitely do that and post results tomorrow. I seem to remember checking that once before and thought that it said the SJ (and the other Joey as well) were linked and that MoCA was good, but I should verify that. I can say for sure that the SJ does play programming normally (using one of the Hopper tuners) when the problem is active, and that I can turn it off, join the programming, etc. from the Hopper. Basically it seems to behave exactly like a regular Joey until I reboot. Would it do that if it was not linked?

 

[ChadT41]

What kind of cable is set between the node and the integrator and SJ? Is it all RG6 3Ghz? Also, I would try to get a tech back out and just for fun, replace the node and integrator.

 

[Thoth]

Hi ChadT41, thanks for the input. The cable is definitely all RG6 3GHz, and the runs are not even that long (each less than 40ft). What really ticks me off is that my neighbor signed up for a Hopper - SJ -2 Joey system about a month after mine, and the guy used the old leftover junk cabling from the 15-year-old cable TV installation, and it all works flawlessly! If you think it could be the node and/or integrator, I'll probably just buy the parts online and swap them out myself. It's not worth the brain damage to arrange, wait for, and deal with the tech for that.

 

[ChadT41]

Not very expensive. Hell, I have a few duo nodes lying around that I am not doing anything with(was never an installer... Echostar sent them)

 

[Thoth]

Next time it happens - tomorrow morning, right? - from the Hopper, hit Menu 2x, then "Linked Joeys" and see what it says. Check the details menu as well.

OK, running behind today but I just checked it. As I remembered, everything looks "normal" - except that the SJ tuners are missing, right on schedule. Both it and the regular Joey are linked, MoCA and other details all check out (good strength, no errors), even the images and descriptions are right. I can't find anything that looks even remotely suspicious, but I only show three tuners (from the Hopper) in the activity list.

 

[Hall]

Sorry, all I can think is "weird"

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[JSheridan]

It looks like you've narrowed it down to either the Hopper or the integrator, IMHO probably the Hopper.

 

[ChadT41]

I agree with JSheridan, but I would go after the Integrator first. Get the easy stuff out the way first.

 

[Thoth]

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. At least I came up with an original problem for my first post! At this point I think I will replace - one at a time so we know what (hopefully) fixes it - the node then the integrator, and if that fails I make the call to Dish to get a new Hopper. The crappy part that I'm trying to avoid is copying all the recordings to my external drive and back to the new receiver...

Probably be a week or so before I get the parts and have anything new to report. If anyone has other ideas in the meantime please throw them out there. Thanks again!

 

[Hall]

is copying all the recordings to my external drive and back to the new receiver...

You can leave them on the external HDD. Not as "convenient" as copying them back though.... Couple extra remote steps.

 

[thomasjk]

No need to copy your recordings back to the receiver. You can play them back from the EHD.

 

[Thoth]

I probably would leave them on the EHD, but then I'd have to post all of my wife's complaints about how she just finally learned how to watch her stuff, and now we've changed everything! But I'm sure no one else here has ever had that problem...