Structured wiring

[jefflewis]

Hey all, I've been lurking around here for quite some time now and have to say that this is THE best satellite information protal I have ever found!

I am going to be building a new house sometime in the next year (hopefully) and I will be running a lot of low-voltage wiring for my structured wiring setup. This will be my first attempt at a star configuration and have bene overwhelmed with all of the information!

I am looking at 2, possibly 3 RG-6 runs to each room, 2 cat6, and possibly audio. The audio is not a must. I would like to be able to modulate the DVD and the computer (media PC) to any room in the house.

My question is this, I have the Dish 522 dual tuner DVR. We like how we have it set up now, with the main feed going to our plasma, and the second tuner running upstairs to our bedroom. this is how we would want it for our new house. We have no need at the current time to add anymore TV's since our only child is 6 months old, but we will have the 3 RG6 in each room for future expansion.

What hardware works with Dish? I like leviton a lot. I have seen a lot of structured wiing components for DirectTV only, however. Also, how would you recommend I setup my wiring to take full advantage of the structured wiring and the DVR?

Any insight would be great, thanks!

 

[boba]

Feb.17th 2009 all those analog channels you know and are used to tuning will disappear. That won't cause problems until then, but how we distribute the signal after that is currently an unknown. We currently use NTSC standard for tuning Ch 3 all curent TVs must be built with ATSC tuners for digital signals, how much longer will NTSC tuners be available? Currently there is no affordable modulator for ATSC tuners. This seems to be a FCC problem that hasn't been addressed or if it has there is no information about the solution.

 

[mikew]

That's a good point, however, cable systems will continue to use the analog spectrum for distributing basic cable. Most of the recent TVs still have an NTSC tuner to ensure the purchaser can use it with cable.

 

[jefflewis]

so you are saying the 522 dvr may not work after the change? wouldn't that be dish's responsibility to get me equipment that does work?

 

[Smith P.]

Run from 2nd tuner A/V cable for composite signal and audio to second floor.

 

[boba]

so you are saying the 522 dvr may not work after the change? wouldn't that be dish's responsibility to get me equipment that does work?

What I am saying is the 522 on channel 60 will work on current TV's with NTSC tuners. After Feb 17th 2009 there won't be a need for NTSC tuners. When will manufacturers start saving costs by no longer including them in new production. The same thing will be true with cable boxes and tuners when will they no longer be cost effective to include in new production.

 

[navychop]

so you are saying the 522 dvr may not work after the change? wouldn't that be dish's responsibility to get me equipment that does work?

No. The sky is not falling. Sometimes it seems some folks wish it was.

All new TVs sold today must have an ATSC (digital) tuner if they have an NTSC (analog) tuner. If it doesn't have a tuner, it's a monitor.

The ATSC tuner chips in use today include NTSC tuners as well. This may be expected to continue, as there is little cost savings to be had by eliminating the feature. Analog cable will continue for many, many years. People will be using their old VCRs, CCTVs, even old video games for many, many years. Think of all the schools, prisons and other buildings with video distribution systems in them- all analog! These aren't going to be replaced any time soon. And outputting an unencrypted (unprotected) digital signal, from other than an OTA source, violates the DMCA. So output to secondary TVs will continue in analog for many years to come. The need for, and utility of, analog signal reception will remain. Only ONE analog source among many goes away. TV manufacturers are well aware that the need for analog tuners does not go away in 2009.

The FCC mandate simply states that analog OTA broadcasts must cease in the United States on Feb 17, 2009. It says nothing about no more production or sale of analog receiving equipment- or other equipment outputting an analog signal. Just OTA analog goes away.

The 522, and other two TV boxes, will continue to work with your current TVs, and any TV you are likely to buy for the foreseeable future. And future two TV boxes from Dish and others will continue to output analog signals for the second TV.

 

[Voyager6]

Perhaps you should run a component cable (or HDMI) to each room from your central box. You could substitute this for one of the RG6 runs. If things change in the near future (HDTV), you will be prepared.

 

[boba]

No. The sky is not falling. Sometimes it seems some folks wish it was.

All new TVs sold today must have an ATSC (digital) tuner if they have an NTSC (analog) tuner. If it doesn't have a tuner, it's a monitor.

The ATSC tuner chips in use today include NTSC tuners as well. This may be expected to continue, as there is little cost savings to be had by eliminating the feature. Analog cable will continue for many, many years. People will be using their old VCRs, CCTVs, even old video games for many, many years. Think of all the schools, prisons and other buildings with video distribution systems in them- all analog! These aren't going to be replaced any time soon. And outputting an unencrypted (unprotected) digital signal, from other than an OTA source, violates the DMCA. So output to secondary TVs will continue in analog for many years to come. The need for, and utility of, analog signal reception will remain. Only ONE analog source among many goes away. TV manufacturers are well aware that the need for analog tuners does not go away in 2009.

The FCC mandate simply states that analog OTA broadcasts must cease in the United States on Feb 17, 2009. It says nothing about no more production or sale of analog receiving equipment- or other equipment outputting an analog signal. Just OTA analog goes away.

The 522, and other two TV boxes, will continue to work with your current TVs, and any TV you are likely to buy for the foreseeable future. And future two TV boxes from Dish and others will continue to output analog signals for the second TV.

Navychop sorry to disagree with you but both DISH and Directv's current models of HDTV receivers do not contain NTSC tuners only ATSC tuners are built in. Some DVD recorders only have ATSC tuners or A/V inputs for recording. Yes the majority do still have both tuners but we are 2 years away still what will the market place consist of by 2010, it is only a guess right now?

 

[Smith P.]

He probably pointed to input NTSC signal in TV sets, as VCR/PVR have NTSC OUTPUT to them.

 

[AllieVi]

… I am going to be building a new house sometime in the next year (hopefully) and I will be running a lot of low-voltage wiring for my structured wiring setup. This will be my first attempt at a star configuration and have bene overwhelmed with all of the information! …

Since you’ll be building a new house, I strongly recommend that you install conduit.

The needs for specific cabling may change with time and one day we may even be using fiber optics inside the home. Changing, adding or upgrading wires that are buried inside walls is not an exercise you’ll want to deal with down the road. Conduit eliminates the need to make long-term decisions that you may eventually regret.

A generous-sized conduit (1”) can accommodate several RG-6 and CAT-6 cables. I’d run a conduit (or maybe two) from your home base to each location where you might eventually want a signal. Also run conduit to the entry point for TV cable, Internet, phone lines, and places where you might want to have security cameras.

I wired my house and did about half of it in state-of-the-art cabling without conduit years ago. I did the rest in conduit. Now the state-of-the-art has advanced and I’m pretty much stuck with what’s directly in the walls – but I can easily upgrade what’s in the conduit.

 

[navychop]

It is the TVs that are the issue here. There is no need for a recording device to receive an OTA signal that will not be sent out in less than 2 years. But the TVs will be displaying analog signals from many different sources for many years, as listed previously.

No TV manufacturer, to my knowledge (and I look for such things), has announced they are dropping support for NTSC. Until then, there is hardly any concern. And since there is no legal way to send non-OTA digital signals unprotected over coax, we will continue to see TVs equipped to receive, at least over channels 3 and 4. Lot's of folks will still be using their VCRs 10 plus years from now. And since there's no savings to receive just 3 and 4 over all of them, why add a restriction? And little or nothing to be saved dropping NTSC support- it's already in the chips you're buying. You'd have a less useful TV to sell.

 

[Claude Greiner]

New House Photos

 

[Foxbat]

Since you’ll be building a new house, I strongly recommend that you install conduit.

What he said. Flexible plastic conduit is pretty reasonable and if CAT5 gives way to CAT6/7/8 or fiber-optics, you can pull out the old stuff and use it to pull the new cables.

 

[charlesrshell]

Hey Claude Greiner, nice house. You are doing it up right. How come on the Cat5 and Cat6? Why not both Cat6?

 

[Smith P.]

I recall the pictures 2 years ago . Are your new house still in same condition ?

 

[kb8urr]

My recommendation is multiple Cat5 or Cat6 runs from the central point to each location in the house. The cable is small, cheap and easy to work with. Baluns are readily avaialble at a variety of places (MCM Electronics is my choice), that will convert virtually any A/V signal format to Cat5. HDMI is a bit expensive, but still avaialble.

You can run anything you want (including your line level audio) through the Cat5. If you needs change, you can change the baluns without changing the cable.

HDMI needs two cat 5 runs
Component Video needs one run (three pairs)
Digital Audio, one pair
analog audio, one pair per channel
composite video, one pair
S-Video, two pairs
VGA, four pairs

You get my drift.

 

[DishSatUser]

I'm a structured media fan as well. Besides this great forum I'm on the Cocoontech.com forum. Why not add a little automation to your home for energy savings for example.

CocoonTech.com - Home Automation , Home Theater , Home Security

They've got a great Structured Wiring 101 guide here:

[Guide] Wiring your new house 101 - CocoonTech.com - Home Automation , Home Theater , Home Security

Word to the wise. Make sure when running your wires that you also run pull lines that can be used to pull future lines through the conduit. You want to avoid using a snake once lines are in the conduit to prevent damage to their jackets from the fish tape tool.

Also, the radius of the bend in the pipe will have a big impact on how may wires can be pulled through that without difficulty. If you have a lot of bends, multiple conduits may be better.

I'd gone with smurf tube (the blue EMT flexible conduit) and also RiserX (flame rated for between floors). I'd run several, but I'd wished I'd done more.

As for running HDMI and other connections through the home, I've been using Cat 5E (gig rated at 350Mhz) along with special baluns. Looks real good.

Yes, I'm also a fan of leviton and their quickport products, but for structured wiring I'm only using their cabinets and then using other technologies to handle the wiring better.

Check out CoCoonTechs gallery to get some ideas. Also to see how "extreme" one can truely go with these systems.

 

[harshness]

That's a good point, however, cable systems will continue to use the analog spectrum for distributing basic cable.

I disagree with this position. My local CATV provider no longer offers analog only packages to new customers (outside of "limited basic"). They are well on their way towards doing away with analog altogether.

 

[harshness]

I've chosen to skip the whole monolithic cable frenzy because I see it going anywhere that the market seems to be headed. Coax is of limited usefulness and I wouldn't bother going hog wild with lots of runs. Future connections will likely be line level or digital and not some sort of modulated RF or speaker level signal.

I'm not convinced that they've settled on a fiber format yet either.

I've gone with a three Cat6 cables and two coax for each room. One Cat6 is for Ethernet and the other two are for whatever else I fancy (POTS, intercom, home automation, antenna rotor). One coax is dedicated to whatever RF stuff I have floating around (including OTA) and the other is for satellite. I could probably make a case for a fourth Cat6 in the event that I were to use some sort of multiplexed HD transceiver pair that requires two cables.

My plan is to do any audio over the LAN.