Still no working PS3

[T2k]

It seems I was right again when I asked for proof after somebody claimed in another topic PS3 is real now - no fully working prototypes have been found at E3: http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5566

Hexus is a pretty well-known site, it's not a joke. BTW Inq posted a similar story about GT: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31681

Sony is in deeper sh*t than I thought... these guys are crazy. I mean I'm sure they do have some sort of working unit but probably at half the target clock speed, disabled features etc - in other words still no prototype to start mf'ing. Well, it's May, Sony, you probably have about 2-3 months to finish your project otherwise you'll be late *again* which would be the most embarrassing moment for SCE...

 

[Purogamer]

They won't start manufacturing them for at least 2 more months, what's the big deal about this honestly? I think the funniest thing is that a ps3 game was running off a 360 at the show, and they tried to hide it...

 

[T2k]

Every trade fair, show Sony acts like they are showing PS3 - but they haven't had a single working prototype yet. Pathetic, that's the point, let alone their miserable lies up until the last days when they finally announced the 6 months delay.

 

[Brewer4]

I am not against any player or company but who thinks Sony will get this thing to market with adequate supply in November?

 

[Purogamer]

Oh, i'll bet they will do anything to get to launch on time, they don't want to not have that christmas demand, but I wouldn't touch a launch unit. Perhaps the reason they don't have working hardware, and this is based on past experience, is they would have all kinds of reports of stuttering framerates and freezing up. The hardware isn't 100% yet and why open themselves up to that kind of criticism? They can handle the heat for not having working units on the floor better than having handling the heat for defective units. Ask microsoft what that's like trying to explain those RAM errors...

I just wonder how bad ps3 will be, hardware wise. Everyone knows the ps1 overheated even though to this day sony denies it. Everyone knows how cheap the ps2 laser was. It doesn't install confidence to buy a launch unit without an extended warranty.

Best buy is going to lose a TON of cash with those warranties before it's all said and done, you watch...

 

[tonyp56]

I am not a Sony fan, but, I don't think Microsoft did a very good job at ALL releasing the 360. So if Sony is late, or if they don't have good supply, I won't blame them, because that is kinda hypocritical.

Look at my signature to see that I have a 360, and I would add that I didn't get one until a little more than a month ago because none where available until then.

Now, do I think the PS III is going to be as bad as everyone is making it out to be? No, I think it will not have the graphics that the 360 does, like the PS II before it, it will not have the graphics capabilities that the Xbox will and does. Now saying that, doesn't mean that game producers will be better able to utilize PS III's graphics engine, and the games will look very good, it will just be PS III's graphics won't be able to match Xbox's graphics in raw power.

 

[Purogamer]

ps3 will eventually make 360 look like it's less powerful, but probably not at launch. Sony's playing catchup this round and it shows.

I find it interesting that in japan, where sony can really do no wrong, that 75% of a survey (1000 people) said they wouldn't buy a ps3 at launch or until the price dropped...only 8% said they'd buy one at launch despite the price, which is bad news for sony despite how inaccurate that will turn out to be.

 

[minorthr]

I am not a Sony fan, but, I don't think Microsoft did a very good job at ALL releasing the 360. So if Sony is late, or if they don't have good supply, I won't blame them, because that is kinda hypocritical.

Look at my signature to see that I have a 360, and I would add that I didn't get one until a little more than a month ago because none where available until then.

Now, do I think the PS III is going to be as bad as everyone is making it out to be? No, I think it will not have the graphics that the 360 does, like the PS II before it, it will not have the graphics capabilities that the Xbox will and does. Now saying that, doesn't mean that game producers will be better able to utilize PS III's graphics engine, and the games will look very good, it will just be PS III's graphics won't be able to match Xbox's graphics in raw power.

You may be on to something. During E3 I saw a few interviews from various developers. The common thing they were saying was that while the PS3 can produce more raw power, it is so much more difficult to program for then the 360, and that while they can make the graphics better then the 360, it's almost not worth the extra time and effort they would have to put in to do it.

 

[Purogamer]

Yeah sure, sony is still #1 by a comfortable margin. Any piece of crap game on a ps2 outsells the same game on an xbox. Until they see numbers that show sony is losing the foothold that they seem like they're going to, developers aren't going anywhere...

They'll just make piss-poor games and push them out the door, gee, what else is new...Nice quality policy these companies have. Remember that ps2 game where you can drive up, over and through mountains like they don't even exist?

 

[T2k]

Yeah sure, sony is still #1 by a comfortable margin.

In what, that's the question? When it comes to combined sales Nintendo by far outsells both MS and Sony in consoles. The only #1 Sony hold is the desktop console sales but that's just one part of the cake.

Any piece of crap game on a ps2 outsells the same game on an xbox. Until they see numbers that show sony is losing the foothold that they seem like they're going to, developers aren't going anywhere...

They'll just make piss-poor games and push them out the door, gee, what else is new...Nice quality policy these companies have. Remember that ps2 game where you can drive up, over and through mountains like they don't even exist?

The situation is quite different now: MS was able to came out with a well-shaped product, great, high quality games and by the time PS3 will debut MS will have 10M unit sold and 160 titles on the market.
That is, ladies and gents, a substantial lead. Enough to recoup a lot of R&D costs, let alone how 'comfortable margin' is that...

 

[T2k]

You may be on to something. During E3 I saw a few interviews from various developers. The common thing they were saying was that while the PS3 can produce more raw power, it is so much more difficult to program for then the 360, and that while they can make the graphics better then the 360, it's almost not worth the extra time and effort they would have to put in to do it.

Small correction: X360's GPU is most likely more advanced than that of PS3.

 

[Purogamer]

Xbox chips are very nice, whereas sony's are more straight forward "Ooga Booga, gimme power..."

Sony can sell 10 million consoles with it's eyes closed. Look how many ps2's they've sold, and we all know they are junk and you'll end up buying at least 2 of them before PS4 comes out.

Nobody's talking about nintendo's handheld market, we're talking about consoles.

 

[T2k]

Xbox chips are very nice, whereas sony's are more straight forward "Ooga Booga, gimme power..."

Sony can sell 10 million consoles with it's eyes closed.

Not for $5-600. It's a very bold gambling Sony is doing - I think they screwed up but that's just me...

Look how many ps2's they've sold, and we all know they are junk and you'll end up buying at least 2 of them before PS4 comes out.

1. PS2 never been this expensive. Never ever.
2. PS2 never had this strong competitor.
3. PS2 never been in second-to-the-market position.

Mark my words: either Sony will subsidize its price or will cut PS3's price in the first year already, otherwise it will be tailgating X360 forever.

[/quote]
Nobody's talking about nintendo's handheld market, we're talking about consoles.[/QUOTE]

You're confusing hanhelds with handheld consoles, I believe.

Total console market includes handheld game console - see Wiki's entry - sales as well, that was my point. By that measure Nintendo was always and still is the king, despite GC's 2nd-3rd place in desktop/home console sales.

 

[Purogamer]

Don't cite a Wikipedia article, it's lame. Consoles and Handhelds are too different markets that appeal to different people. There are people who have both and overlap, but they are still two seperate markets.

Everyone is hell bent that we're going to see price drops really quickly out of everybody. Where is the history to support that? It doesn't exist. PS2 was expensive when it came out, and it was expensive to replace. Not $600 expensive but still expensive.

When you've got the lead in the videogame industry and the franchises that will sell no matter how bad they are, you don't need to be first.

Sony's not in as big of trouble as we'd all like to think they are. I'd love to see sony get humbled here but I just can't see it yet, not when a lame MGS trailer is one of the big things people liked at E3...

 

[T2k]

Don't cite a Wikipedia article, it's lame. Consoles and Handhelds are too different markets that appeal to different people. There are people who have both and overlap, but they are still two seperate markets.

Not at all. Both based on the very same mfrs, same franchises, same purpose devices. Mobile gaming is a natural evolution of desktop gaming, there's nothing different in that.

Everyone is hell bent that we're going to see price drops really quickly out of everybody. Where is the history to support that?

Where's the history to see a $5-600 priced console?

It doesn't exist. PS2 was expensive when it came out, and it was expensive to replace. Not $600
expensive but still expensive.

Nintendo had the same historyin its heydays, during the 90s. Arrogance, mistaken steps and you're out of the top spot.

When you've got the lead in the videogame industry and the franchises that will sell no matter how bad they are, you don't need to be first.

Yeah, just like Nintendo, huh?

It's much more complicated than that.
FYI: there'll be ZERO install base for PS3 when 360 will have 10M players. Nope, nada. That's quite a different story from leading...

Sony's not in as big of trouble as we'd all like to think they are. I'd love to see sony get humbled here but I just can't see it yet, not when a lame MGS trailer is one of the big things people liked at E3...

Sony is losing money badly on *every* front. They are behind Sharp, Samsung, Microsoft, Apple etc in every market they use to not only lead but *own*.
My classic examples are the TV or the mobile music player businesses: tailgating Sharp, Samsung and being FAR-FAR behind Apple, tailgating the Nth competitor only. In electronics they have sunk to the level of their Korean competitors when it comes to quality, for higher price and sometimes with less features.
PSP is a great machine for me - but again, it lacks few critical elements to make the definitive case: TV-out, cheap storage/games and a touchscreen would open the shiny new world of strategy games. It's a pity but seriously, how lame is when Sony included a slow-ass infrared port instead of a TV-out??? It tells volumes about their out-of-touch ideas.
Sony is losing money and PS3 is a money pit, with another year or so to go until it starts returning anything.

 

[Purogamer]

This is getting out of hand so i'll let it go, but that last line spoke volumes. It's a money-pit in your eyes, yet it'll turn itself around and be profitable in a year or two. Doesn't sound so bad that they'll make THAT much money and it'll be all profit in the final 3 projected years of the console's life, and exponentially go up after the user base of 2 years is factored in...

 

[T2k]

That wasn't my point, FYI. What I'm keep saying is Sony, as a whole operation, is losing money on *every front* and current PS3 bleeding is just making it much worse - which usually tends to force companies to cut corners/costs as Sony already did it with PS3.

 

[Purogamer]

Oh I agree that sony isn't what it used to be, but I think the playstation has a nice layer of teflon on it as far as the everyday gamer is concerned. They'll buy it and love it no matter how poor quality it is. Unless they have a major hardware issue, which they usually do, they'll be just fine. Graphics sell consoles, and having a PS3 running at bestbuy next christmas will do nothing but help drive up demand for the system, no matter what anyone else is showing or has available to buy.

I'd love for sony to take a major hit here, as i've been called an xbox fanboy at various points over the years, but I don't see the doomsday signs yet...

 

[T2k]

If only graphics sells consoles then PS3 is doomed already - its RSX chip is way less impressive then 360's chip from ATI.
The RSX - which is most likely one of the main reasons behind PS3's long delay - is based on the older generation (from last year) Nvidia chip: http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060329/3dps309.htm
NV47 = G70 = GeForce 7800

Look at the numbers... I thought with all this delay they will rather build something more futureproof stuff... 128 bit memory bus for a supposedly 700MHz unit? In best case scenario RSX is an almost-G71 (aka GeForce 7900) chip but less half the memory bandwidth and thus most likely half the rasterizing power, let alone the lower texturizing power. It doesn't look to be more impressive nor faster than a good laptop video card.

Source: http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060329/3dps3.htm

 

[mwgiii]

T2k, while I agree with some of your points about Sony, it is way too early to consider them doomed and the PS3 a failure.

I do think that their strategy of controlling the "entertainment center" is a huge risk. The hardcore gamers will buy one but the $600 price point will scare off a lot of casual gamers and a lot of the A/V enthusiast won't buy one because they want a pure Blu-Ray player, not a gaming combo.

As Puro said, it's all about the software and the PS3 has a large inventory of exclusive titles which will help push hardware sales.

Bottom line is both the 360 & PS3 will have great looking, fun to play games. It will be interesting to watch MS & Sony duke it out and to see how Nintendo's huge risk of focusing on non-gamers will play out this generation.