Sound and Vision Mag - Samsng BluRay Fix a bust.

[vurbano]

Looks like samsungs "fix" to their BuRay machine DIDNT WORK!!!!!

"So — drumroll, please — what difference did we see? You can get more from Al in "Blu's Clues," but the short answer is: not too much. "
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1683&page_number=3

 

[JoeSp]

Vurbano, the article did not say it did not work! Come on now, I expect a little more reason from you. While the adjusted player did improve on the picture quality it did not meet the HD-DVD PQ currently available from the Toshibas.

However, the writer did meantion that they wanted to see differant manufacturers' Blu Ray players before they really dropped the hammer on BluRay. I been saying all along that you can not use a Samsung BluRay player to do a fair comparison between HD-DVD and BluRay abilities.

Also in the article they meantioned that the LPCM sound from the BluRay title of XXX is "the best sound we have ever heard from a home video format". How does does this statement hurt BluRay?

The short answer from this article is that the jury is still out on BluRay and no one is sure if it is the masters used to make the BluRay movies or the MPEG2 compression. But they are definate on the decision that the Samsung BluRay player is flawed! As they are on the HD-DVD movies having the definative visual edge right now.

So what we have is one format providing a better visual and the other better sound! I wonder if BluRay movies came in VC-1 if the PQ would be all that differant?

 

[vurbano]

Vurbano, the article did not say it did not work! Come on now, I expect a little more reason from you. While the adjusted player did improve on the picture quality it did not meet the HD-DVD PQ currently available from the Toshibas.

However, the writer did meantion that they wanted to see differant manufacturers' Blu Ray players before they really dropped the hammer on BluRay. I been saying all along that you can not use a Samsung BluRay player to do a fair comparison between HD-DVD and BluRay abilities.

Also in the article they meantioned that the LPCM sound from the BluRay title of XXX is "the best sound we have ever heard from a home video format". How does does this statement hurt BluRay?

The short answer from this article is that the jury is still out on BluRay and no one is sure if it is the masters used to make the BluRay movies or the MPEG2 compression. But they are definate on the decision that the Samsung BluRay player is flawed! As they are on the HD-DVD movies having the definative visual edge right now.

So what we have is one format providing a better visual and the other better sound! I wonder if BluRay movies came in VC-1 if the PQ would be all that differant?

The short answer from that article is that the PQ fix didnt fix the PQ.

 

[JoeSp]

Vurbano, you implied the the PQ did not change -- it did. Overall, PQ still was not up to HD-DVD PQ but the updated Samsung PQ did improve. Probably as good as it is going to get with Samsung player. The unit is flawed -- period.

I expect Sony's and Pioneers Blu-Ray players PQ to be much improved from Samsung's. In the regular DVD players the Sony's and Pioneers put Samsung's regular dvd players to shame so why not their Blu-Ray players?

 

[JoeSp]

A few quotes from the article"

"Although it wasn't without occassional hiccups, the BD-P1000 also worked well in day-to-day operation — a refreshing change from the slow, glitchy performance of the first HD DVD player. Power-up and disc-boot times were faster by about a third, though still longer than for a standard DVD player. Transport commands executed smoothly, and, unlike with HD DVD, the onscreen indicators for fast-forward and rewind modes were fully functional."

Seems the HD-DVD player from Toshiba has some flaws?

"BOTTOM LINE From our perspective, the big Blu-ray mystery continues. Even without the noise-reduction fix, some Blu-ray Discs look great — the smoothness and saturated comic-book colors of the highly-stylized, computer-generated world in Sony's UltraViolet were stunning, for example, and the movie exhibited little of that bothersome noise. Yet, this and other titles never quite matched the quality or impact of HD DVD, which consistently delivers a picture with superb clarity, minus the objectionable grain, and a wider range of contrast that makes highlights pop in a lifelike way that Blu-ray on the Samsung BD-P1000 does not."

Seems to put the blame where it is deserved -- on the Samsung player and not Blu-Ray in general.

"As far as we're concerned, the jury's still out. We'll be anxious to test players from Sony, Pioneer, and other manufacturers, as well as future Blu-ray titles, to see if images from the two formats don't converge or, at least, become equally impressive in their own rights. In the meantime, though, it would appear that Round One goes to HD DVD."

If Sony wants folks to poney up more money for their product than the review of their Blu-Ray player must do considerably better than the Samsung's. If not, consumers will vote with their dollars PS3 or no PS3!

 

[vurbano]

"So — drumroll, please — what difference did we see? You can get more from Al in "Blu's Clues," but the short answer is: not too much. "

What part of "not to much" dont you understand? The fix didnt work.
Heres where you say "oh but everything will be fixed when they use VC-1"

But what will BluRay have then?

Answer: An overpriced player with a Blue laser that hasnt even proved it can equal HD DVD quality. Essentailly an HD DVD player with blu laser that costs 2-3 times more. And media differences of 25 vs 30 Gb? its a wash then with a huge price advantage for HD DVD.

BluRay is dead before it starts IMO.

 

[vurbano]

A few quotes from the article"

"Although it wasn't without occassional hiccups, the BD-P1000 also worked well in day-to-day operation — a refreshing change from the slow, glitchy performance of the first HD DVD player. Power-up and disc-boot times were faster by about a third, though still longer than for a standard DVD player. Transport commands executed smoothly, and, unlike with HD DVD, the onscreen indicators for fast-forward and rewind modes were fully functional."

Seems the HD-DVD player from Toshiba has some flaws?

There is nothing wrong with my HD-A1 transport functions. They are fully functional. And my unit has only booted once. It stays on, a very simple solution. Just what are they flaws? Your criticism of the Toshiba is like saying that your engineless Ferrari is better than my Porsche. My car goes while yours is worthless with its crappy PQ, no matter how nice your "functions" are.

 

[MW390]

It DOES sound like HD-DVD does have a leg up at this point. I don't want to declare "the war" over, but if BR was so good and Samsung did not produce a player maybe as good as Pioneer or Sony will, why did Samsung take the dive for Pioneer and Sony? Was it because of the me too at the same time thing? Not a good idea on their part and they should be compensated by Sony and Pioneer for their effort if that's the case.

 

[tnsprin]

Neither format wins at this point. At the current price few will buy them, and all the current players have flaws.

 

[JoeSp]

Vurbano, those are not my criticisms, those are from the writer of the article. I posted direct quotes from the entire article not the 'short version'. If you want to take offense -- do that with the writer of the article you posted not me. I am glad that you do not find any fault with your HD-DVD player -- others would disagree as the author of the article pointed out. And I agree with tnsprin -- nothing from either camp has me wowed yet. Half a working standard does not make me want to spend my money.

 

[colebert]

Joe and tnsprin, of course the correct answer to every thread here is "that's interesting. but let's see how it plays out."

This type of behavior is par-for-the-course for vurbano. You can't have a reasoned discussion with a zealot who personalizes his technology purchases. I was here the day this forum started with Ilya's excellent posts. But I'm sad to say its no coincidence the tactics and level of discourse here have trended towards a seedy politics bulletin board.

Now I believe we were just about to vote on a winner then knock off for another decade until holographic storage is ready... My money is on HOLO-DVD! Boo Lite-Ray®.

 

[vurbano]

Half a working standard does not make me want to spend my money.

1/2 ?

 

[vurbano]

Joe and tnsprin, of course the correct answer to every thread here is "that's interesting. but let's see how it plays out."

This type of behavior is par-for-the-course for vurbano. You can't have a reasoned discussion with a zealot who personalizes his technology purchases. I was here the day this forum started with Ilya's excellent posts. But I'm sad to say its no coincidence the tactics and level of discourse here have trended towards a seedy politics bulletin board.

Now I believe we were just about to vote on a winner then knock off for another decade until holographic storage is ready... My money is on HOLO-DVD! Boo Lite-Ray®.

In case you missed it, the topic of this thread is that the "fix" samsung made to their player did NOT work. The article documents that. Stick to the facts and you might learn something. Good luck with with your Holo dream.

 

[vurbano]

Now samsung denies any chip problems

This is rich. Looks like samsung is starting to play tennis with the PQ issue

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704042&page=1

I just got off the phone with level 2 support for the fourth time. After asking him to check, awhile passed and he came back and said:
"Our stance is that there is no defect, flaw, or bug with the Genesis chip as incorrectly reported by some blogs."
I told him it sounded like he was reading something. He said he was reading an internal bulletin to all technicians.
I asked him if it was word for word. He said he was paraphrasing.
Edit:
Wondering what paraphrasing meant and wanting to know how accurate the first rep was I called back again. I am not sure that some of this information is meant for customers to hear as direct quotes. The second rep only admitted there was info when I quoted what the first rep told me.
He confirmed that Samsung does not think there is a problem but an important distinction emerged.
While reading some words out loud to himself he used the word "green" "some customers prefer high level setting" and "exploring setting the default to a mid size level".
I am guessing that a more accurate thread title might be,
"Samsung reads statement to me saying no Genesis bug but they might change the default setting anyway"

 

[JoeSp]

Vurbano, I will agree that the Samsung BluRay player is flawed. No differant then any of the DVD players they have brought out over the last 10 years. So with that , we all wait until Sony brings out their player.

Now the question moves onto why and what is happening to the poor Blu-Ray movie reproductions. Something fishy is afoot. A company with millions of dollars at risk does not continually do stupid things do they? Of course we are talking about Sony but unless they have something up their sleeve the future for Blu-Ray does not look bright - no pun intended!

 

[jgantert]

Now the question moves onto why and what is happening to the poor Blu-Ray movie reproductions. Something fishy is afoot. A company with millions of dollars at risk does not continually do stupid things do they? Of course we are talking about Sony but unless they have something up their sleeve the future for Blu-Ray does not look bright - no pun intended!

Well, from what I've heard the Warner BR titles are among some of the best PQ for BR. I'm not sure why Sony would produce inferior quality on a system they invented & are pushing.

It's no matter, tho. I've already bought into HD-DVD and more poor PQ Sony BR releases only make me glad that I might have made the right choice.

-John