Sony and Toshiba entering a deal?

[JoeSp]

It has been reported that Sony is seriously considering selling their Cell chip manufacturing plant in Japan to Toshiba. Toshiba would be making the Cell chip for the PS3 and Sony would get some badly needed money.

http://www.eetimes.com/rss/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201806724&cid=RSSfeed_eetimes_newsRSS

This seems very interesting seeing as Toshiba is spearheading the HD-DVD group that Sony's BD group is trying to beat out for the next gen DVD products. The Japanese are smart enough not to lose a market to China that they are instrumental in creating. I wonder if there is something more to this underfoot?

 

[diogen]

...I wonder if there is something more to this underfoot?

BD Spin:
Strategic move! Upload the unprofitable chip making business to Toshiba and then strart sourcing the Cell chips from IBM. Let Toshiba suffer the losses! Unless they turn blu.
HD Spin:
See how desparate Sony is for money? They are loosing their shirt! Now Toshiba just has to stop manufacturing the Cell and the PS3 is dead! And Sony will follow.

Or something along those lines.
Pick your poison...

BTW, this news is over a week old...

Diogen.

EDIT: And in case you want to go along with speculation, read this first
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8973

 

[vurbano]

Wow the PS3 is dead already?

 

[GaryPen]

Much ado about nothing. This kind of cross-manufacturing of components by apparent business rivals is common in Japan.

In this case, I would imagine that Sony is looking to drop unprofitable divisions as part of an overall restructuring.

 

[JoeSp]

Well I guess you guys have forgotten that it was IBM, Sony and Toshiba who developed the CELL processor. Sony has been looking to get out of the chip manufacturing and Toshiba is always looking for more manufacturing capability.

As for being old news -- did you post this somewhere already Diogen? This news is barely a week old. As for whats up -- maybe Sony's game division is deciding to get back to the business of making money on games like it is supposed to be doing.

This is not the only Toshiba/Sony ventures as Gary has pointed out the Japanese are always doing this type of business. Just like Sony and Samsung going in together on a new LCD plant.

Here in the states companies would not even think of going to a rival to improve their product or profitability. In this aspect the Japanese are way ahead of us.

 

[diogen]

As for being old news -- did you post this somewhere already Diogen?

No, I didn't.
For one reason: it isn't news, it's a rumour.
You want to get worked up about something nothing to do with reality - wouldn't be the first time - go ahead.

...maybe Sony's game division is deciding to get back to the business of making money on games

Maybe. Since they can't make it on manufacturing the Cell - it ain't such a sh!tty idea.
Not that the gaming division was manufacturing the Cell, mind you. It wasn't doing many games either...
Toshiba is the only company (in this war) that makes money off the Cell. And - how ironic - it ain't blu.
So, the more PS3s sold, the more money Toshiba makes, the cheaper it can sell their players (i.e. can afford more subsidy).

Diogen.

 

[JoeSp]

First of all -- it is not a rumor. Toshiba and Sony have been talking about the plant in Nagasaki for the last two years. Expect this deal to go through now that Sony is looking to move the plant.

As for making it --- let me know when M$ makes any money on any video machine they make -- period! Sony will be making money on the PS3 by XMAS '08 -- maybe sooner. Meanwhile, M$ will have to extend the warranty on every 360 they sell because of a non-repariable defect. Yeah, I want one of thoses -- NOT! I can play any game on the 360 on my PC. Heck, I only have to wait until March to play Halo 3 on my PC. And it doesn't overheat and lock up!

And it obviously doesn't make a differance how cheap Toshiba makes their players or how many discs they give away when you purchase one. Their standalone sales have not impacted the disc sales of HD-DVD one bit. Gee, they price their players at a loss (retailers make hardly no money on them) they price their discs at or above the BD prices (lets blame those Combo Discs okay?) and they have started loosing ground in brick and mortar stores on standalones to the BD crowd. Oh, I guess Toshiba is gonna have to go lower to - to -- oh heck, I don't know. They went lower and they sold more standalones but they did not put a dent in the disc sale ratio.

I wonder what would happen if a $399 PS3 came out? Or a $299 BD player came out? Hummm

 

[diogen]

First of all -- it is not a rumor. Toshiba and Sony have been talking about the plant in Nagasaki for the last two years. Expect this deal to go through now that Sony is looking to move the plant.

Time will tell... Currently it's nothing but a rumour.

Heck, I only have to wait until March to play Halo 3 on my PC.

Preemptive damage control just before Halo 3 is released?

I wonder what would happen if a $399 PS3 came out?

Sony better... Or selling the Cell plant won't stop the bleeding...

Diogen.

 

[GaryPen]

And it obviously doesn't make a differance how cheap Toshiba makes their players or how many discs they give away when you purchase one. Their standalone sales have not impacted the disc sales of HD-DVD one bit.

The surge in HW sales is relatively recent. It will take a bit for SW sales to catch up, if at all. As smart and handsome folks have been saying, it won't be until the holiday '07 shopping season is over before we can gauge any real movement in this silly war.

Gee, they price their players at a loss (retailers make hardly no money on them) they price their discs at or above the BD prices (lets blame those Combo Discs okay?)

The prices of all new HD-DVD-only releases look the same as BD releases, to me. So, the blame does lie on those combo discs, apparently. (Although, they should've been priced the same as BD, just to give HD an advantage. It woulda been a great bit of marketing. What a waste.)

and they have started loosing ground in brick and mortar stores on standalones to the BD crowd.

I haven't seen this at local stores in my area, when I've looked.

Oh, I guess Toshiba is gonna have to go lower to - to -- oh heck, I don't know. They went lower and they sold more standalones but they did not put a dent in the disc sale ratio.

Again...holiday '07 sales will tell.

What is it about being a fanboy that makes logic and reasoned thought so difficult? (That goes for both sides, btw.)

 

[r.jones1116]

they have started loosing ground in brick and mortar stores on standalones to the BD crowd.

I guess that's why the A-30 is on back ordered status and the A-20 is sold out at Best Buy.
JoeSP,back up what you say with facts and you won't look so foolish.

P.S. Take a look at what the Toshiba HDDVD players are doing at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172514/ref=pd_ts_e_nav/104-5495625-4158308

 

[John Kotches]

Much ado about nothing. This kind of cross-manufacturing of components by apparent business rivals is common in Japan.

It's not just Japan.

Some of the manufacturing processes can only be done in one or two specific plants in the world.

At one point; Sun couldn't make their E10000 server without using IBM's PCB factory.

If you have a manufacturing facility the more you can run it; the sooner you get your ROI.

In this case, I would imagine that Sony is looking to drop unprofitable divisions as part of an overall restructuring.

WHich they are in need of doing. But is the CELL processor really not profitable? Seems like Toshiba would have a good handle on it.

CHeers,

 

[GaryPen]

JoeSP,back up what you say with facts and you won't look so foolish.

P.S. Take a look at what the Toshiba HDDVD players are doing at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172514/ref=pd_ts_e_nav/104-5495625-4158308

I've already pointed that out to him. But, he seems to rely on old magazine articles or some such, instead of real-time trends from the largest on-line retailer.

Also, it's interesting that the XBox 360 also outsells the PS3. It's cleaning PS3's clock, when when taking the XBox Elite into account. And, the HDDVD add-on is only a few positions behind the PS3.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/ref=pd_ts_vg_nav/104-0716540-1880763

So, even including the PS3, HD-DVD HW sales seem to be trending ever upwards compared to BD. SW sales will inevitably follow.

I, too, originally thought that BD would most likely win this so-called war. But, not being emotionally attached, I was able to look at the facts, and see that HD-DVD has a pretty good chance of winning after all. At the very least, it has certainly caught up, or is rapidly catching up.

It looks like there is a definite possibility of BD following in the footsteps of Beta, MiniDisc, Digital-8, SACD, and Memory Stick. Sony's arrogance may yet again bite them in the ass.

 

[diogen]

...As smart and handsome folks have been saying, it won't be until the holiday '07 shopping season is over...

...Again...holiday '07 sales will tell.

...and then there are some that believe it will be the 08 holiday season that will show the winner...
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2430446720070924

Diogen.

 

[GaryPen]

That is exactly what I have been saying in these forums. We will have a clear leader by holiday season '08, and a reasonably accurate gauge after the '07 season.

It's such a curse being right all the time. I think I was wrong once, though. But, I could be wrong about that.

 

[JoeSp]

First of all, Halo 3 will be on the PC. So I can wait. Second, I have posted several web sites before about the increase in BD standalone sales over HD-DVD standalones since July of this year--about the time of the $499 Sony BM300(?) release already. That particular player is sold out in many places. Third, I have always said that this race is only at the second turn and that it would go on for at least another two years.

But you know, HD-DVD guys keep sticking those standalone numbers in BD's face. I hope you guys never lose that place because if you do----

 

[JoeSp]

Just a little reading for ya:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6475686.html

Now you may begin telling everyone how videobusiness is in the BDA's back pocket. I warned ya about those standalone sales you keep sprouting!

 

[diogen]

Even a dead clock shows the right time twice a day...

Diogen.

 

[berck]

Even a dead clock shows the right time twice a day...

Diogen.

Unless its a 24HR clock, then only once.

 

[teamerickson]

But you know, HD-DVD guys keep sticking those standalone numbers in BD's face. I hope you guys never lose that place because if you do----

Adams Media Research reports that HD DVD has a 58% standalone share. That was in the Wall Street Journal today.

 

[berck]

Adams Media Research reports that HD DVD has a 58% standalone share. That was in the Wall Street Journal today.

There are two different numbers being thrown out. The numbers you are quoting looks like total market share. The number Joe link posts are monthly market shares. Implying that the trend is moving towards more BD players being purchased now than HD-DVD players.