Solution When DirecTV Cabling Won't Work with OTA Antenna?

[Goldfish]

Hi Everyone -- I recently cut the cord from D* and am installing an over-the-air antenna that I'd like to run through the existing D* cabling.

I've searched around the SatelliteGuys forums and many of the posts say I should be able to plug my new over-the-air antenna directly into my former D* cabling and have the antenna work. Unfortunately, it doesn't and there must be some small nuance I'm overlooking.

I recently bought a model OUS00-0681 1byone Outdoor Amplified Antenna (rated for 60 miles; I'm 45 miles away from broadcast towers). This antenna works fine (30 channels) if I connect the antenna using the 20-foot RG-6U cable that came with the antenna directly to the back of a TV, with no splitters or amplifiers in the line.

However, when I connect to the RG-6 cable that was my existing D* cabling (it was installed less than three years ago and worked fine with D* high def service, which I just cancelled), there is zero signal and no channels acquired (with the antenna in the same exact roof position as when it worked on the direct television connection).

I tried the D* cabling both with and without the D* 1 to 4 splitter (model MSPLIT4R1-03) that was left behind. I also directly connected (using a simple RG-6 cable connector) the D* RG-6 line from the dish (about a 50-foot run) to an inside RG-6 cable previously used with my D* service on a TV, bypassing the splitter. Same thing -- no signal at all.

I have also tried this setup with and without the DirecTV Power Inverter (model PI21R1-03) in the line that was left behind, to no avail. I also used the supplied 1byone powered external amplifier where the line connects to the TV using all of these previously described combinations. Nothing works other than a direct connection with the 1byone RG-6C cable from the antenna only to a single TV.

The existing three-year-old D* cabling has this printed on it: Perfect Vision 80SC RG-6 18AWG 75oC CATV/CL2 E232510(UL) CM.

Does anyone have any suggestions how I can get this to work on my existing DirecTV cabling? I will eventually be using the antenna signal split three ways to three TVs, with cable runs (after the splitter) of approximately 10, 20, and 40 feet. I am planning to plug the 1byone powered external amplifier into the incoming line from the antenna then into the input for the signal splitter.

This is maddening, eh?!

Thanks!

 

[harshness]

You need to physically remove any and all DIRECTV branded hardware from the cable that you think is coming down from the antenna; especially the DIRECTV Power Inserter. There should be nothing left but the cable and the F connectors. If you have the correct cable, there won't be any splitters or couplers. The footage markings on the jacket can be helpful in confirming the cable.

Look for damage (i.e. a bent-over center conductor) inside the connectors. If you have a spare coupler and a "dummy load" (a 75ohm resistor soldered into an F connector) or an alligator clipped jumper wire, I'd do a continuity test. If you don't get continuity, you either have the wrong cable or the cable is damaged.

Don't try to get tricky with placement of the antenna's power inserter. It should go inline between the antenna and the first splitter.

Any DIRECTV green label splitters will probably be okay once you figure out the downlead problem, but a conventional splitter would probably be better.

 

[Goldfish]

You need to physically remove any and all DIRECTV branded hardware from the cable that you think is coming down from the antenna; especially the DIRECTV Power Inserter. There should be nothing left but the cable and the F connectors. If you have the correct cable, there won't be any splitters or couplers. The footage markings on the jacket can be helpful in confirming the cable.

Look for damage (i.e. a bent-over center conductor) inside the connectors. If you have a spare coupler and a "dummy load" (a 75ohm resistor soldered into an F connector) or an alligator clipped jumper wire, I'd do a continuity test. If you don't get continuity, you either have the wrong cable or the cable is damaged.

Don't try to get tricky with placement of the antenna's power inserter. It should go inline between the antenna and the first splitter.

Any DIRECTV green label splitters will probably be okay once you figure out the downlead problem, but a conventional splitter would probably be better.

Thanks a lot, harshness. I removed all D* hardware and still had the problem, so will check the center conductors on both ends. Next up will be the continuity test you described. I'm also going to try a separate RG-6 cable than the one supplied with the antenna, and see if there is a problem beyond that.

My hunch is the D*-supplied cable from the dish into the house is not the correct type and "plain old" RG-6 will need to carry the antenna signal.

Stay tuned...

 

[mdram]

did you have a multi tv install?
what did you do @ the distribution block?

 

[harshness]

My hunch is the D*-supplied cable from the dish into the house is not the correct type and "plain old" RG-6 will need to carry the antenna signal.

The PerfectVision 80SC cable should be high quality RG6 with a solid copper core unless it is a knock-off. DIRECTV even had their name printed on their in-house purchases back in the day.

I'd be suspicious that it has been damaged.

The current DIRECTV specification calls for part # CB1B06DSCR0-05 and that's probably much the same cable with a new part number.

 

[JosephB]

what directv hardware did you have installed?

not sure of your level of expertise with directv, so apologies if these sound "simplistic"

how many lines came out of the dish?

if just one, that means SWM, and you should be able to just connect to it

if four, that means you had a switch somewhere, which will need to be removed, and three of those lines discarded

if you had a power inserter, remove it completely

one other thing to check, if you were on SWM (whether a switch or SWM dish) make sure you don't have excessive splitters in the line. those might be degrading the signal too much if you're in a fringe area

 

[danristheman]

I have used directv cables with no problem I am also a cheap bastard so reuse almost anything with electronics.

 

[Goldfish]

Thanks for the ideas, harshness, danristheman, JosephB, and mdram.

I found the problem in the DirecTV line - a bent center conductor up at the roof connection going into the antenna. I replaced the F connector there and the signal came through. I used a coax continuity tester and was able to confirm all of the lines work from the individual TVs to the point where they would connect to the splitter.

The problem is now at the signal splitter. It must have significant signal drain, as the TV connections get 30 channels when plugged directly into the line from the antenna, then drops to about six channels when connected through the splitter. (Both the left-behind D* splitter and a new LeGrand 4-way digital splitter with -7dB out loss at each out port, provided similar signal loss results.)

I've tried the powered external amplifier supplied with the 1byone antenna (no specs are provided on the amplifier or the paperwork), and it totally blocks the signal, whether I put it between the line in from the antenna connecting directly to a single TV, or put it just before the splitter, or put it just after the splitter connected to my longest line run (about 40 feet +/-). I get zero channels on any TV when the amplifier is included. (I'm about 45 miles from the signals, and this omni-directional antenna is rated for 60 miles.)

**Does anyone know if there is a better type of amplifier out there that might solve the significant signal loss, that can be installed inside the house for powering? Should it be plugged into the line just before it enters the splitter?

 

[JosephB]

You'll want to get an amp that goes *before* the splitter. If the splitter is outside, you can get outdoor rated amps. You would then need to replace the splitter with one that passes power only via one port, and use that port for the power inserter. The DirecTV splitter should be fine for that use, the red port is the one that passes power.

 

[harshness]

I found the problem in the DirecTV line - a bent center conductor up at the roof connection going into the antenna.

Pretty good guess on my part.

I get zero channels on any TV when the amplifier is included. (I'm about 45 miles from the signals, and this omni-directional antenna is rated for 60 miles.)

I've had bad luck with these small amplifiers not working all that well. It may be defective or it may not be enough.

Should it be plugged into the line just before it enters the splitter?

If it is a pre-amp, it should be mounted to the antenna mast.

If it is a distribution amp, it should replace the splitter. With your relatively short run and usable signal without a pre-amp, you could probably get away with a distribution amp.

I use an RCA TVPRAMP1R pre-amp mounted just below my antenna as my cable from the antenna to the splitter is over 100'. They sell for under $23 at Walmart and Amazon.

 

[boba]

Thanks for the ideas, harshness, danristheman, JosephB, and mdram.

I found the problem in the DirecTV line - a bent center conductor up at the roof connection going into the antenna. I replaced the F connector there and the signal came through. I used a coax continuity tester and was able to confirm all of the lines work from the individual TVs to the point where they would connect to the splitter.

The problem is now at the signal splitter. It must have significant signal drain, as the TV connections get 30 channels when plugged directly into the line from the antenna, then drops to about six channels when connected through the splitter. (Both the left-behind D* splitter and a new LeGrand 4-way digital splitter with -7dB out loss at each out port, provided similar signal loss results.)

I've tried the powered external amplifier supplied with the 1byone antenna (no specs are provided on the amplifier or the paperwork), and it totally blocks the signal, whether I put it between the line in from the antenna connecting directly to a single TV, or put it just before the splitter, or put it just after the splitter connected to my longest line run (about 40 feet +/-). I get zero channels on any TV when the amplifier is included. (I'm about 45 miles from the signals, and this omni-directional antenna is rated for 60 miles.)

**Does anyone know if there is a better type of amplifier out there that might solve the significant signal loss, that can be installed inside the house for powering? Should it be plugged into the line just before it enters the splitter?

A 7dB loss means each output has less than 1/4th the signal coming out that goes in. When an amplifier blocks output signals frequently it means a power loss, no AC power means no amplification.

 

[harshness]

When an amplifier blocks output signals frequently it means a power loss, no AC power means no amplification.

Inline amps use DC power, not AC.

The other possibility is the amplifier being installed backward.

 

[boba]

Inline amps use DC power, not AC.

The other possibility is the amplifier being installed backward.

Most people have AC power coming out of the wall, then a wall wart to convert it to DC.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Are you trying to use the directv green label splitter?

That may be the issue because I don't believe they where designed to pass the lower frequencies

 

[harshness]

That may be the issue because I don't believe they where designed to pass the lower frequencies

As I understand it, green label splitters are unique in that they're designed to carry lower frequencies between output legs. Whatever you do with SWM, you still need, the 2.3MHz control and DECA (MoCA D) channels, right?

 

[harshness]

Most people have AC power coming out of the wall, then a wall wart to convert it to DC.

If you're considering the PI as part of the pre-amp "kit", you might be justified in that argument. From that perspective it would have been better to suggest that maybe the PI wasn't powered.

 

[Goldfish]

Thanks, everyone, for your help. Problem is solved now! I removed the DirecTV green label splitter (I had tried all possible combinations of the DirecTV splitter, the DirecTV SWM, a non-DirecTV 4-way splitter, and the ibyone AC-powered amplifier) and got a distribution amp I bought at Lowe's in the TV cabling section (thanks for the suggestion on the direct-connect amplifier, harshness! Walmart did not carry these amplifiers in the store, nor did Home Depot) that replaces all splitters. The line from the satellite gets plugged into this amp, and the lines to the TVs also get plugged in directly to the amp. That gave an extra 10 dB per TV line, and raised the channels available to about 40. Worked perfectly!

Only weird quirk (for anybody that comes across this post in the future): we're about 45 miles from both NYC and Philly and neither city's Fox stations come in at all, although they should at that distance. The antennas are in the same places as the other stations (that come in strongly) in both markets. Fox must use under-powered signals in both cities. Bummer, as it's Super Bowl Sunday and the game is on Fox! Will jury-rig a screen cast from a website carrying the game.

One note of caution for anyone buying a 1byone product: their customer service is incredibly poor. I ran this entire initial scenario past them via their email help service. It took them nearly a week to respond, and when they did, they merely asked me for my "order number" to "help" them provide better assistance; no other help provided. I had supplied them with all product numbers and my eBay user name (as I bought it through eBay and they asked for that if it was purchased through eBay) when I submitted my question. That was a strange request as their product is their product, no matter where it was purchased. Expect zero help, and a significant delay to find out they offer zero help.

The SatelliteGuys board comes through AGAIN!

 

[harshness]

WNYW seems limited in its power at 246KW and that's probably because it shares a frequency (RF44) with WMCN.

WTXF, on the other hand, is booming in comparison at 620KW and doesn't appear to be competing for a frequency (RF42).

Going forward, both of these stations (along with a half dozen, give or take, others) will have to move down in frequency as part of the repack that will squeeze all OTA TV into channels 2-36.

 

[Trip]

Only weird quirk (for anybody that comes across this post in the future): we're about 45 miles from both NYC and Philly and neither city's Fox stations come in at all, although they should at that distance. The antennas are in the same places as the other stations (that come in strongly) in both markets. Fox must use under-powered signals in both cities.

Without knowing exactly where you are, it's hard to say exactly. Fox is running 990 kW out of New York, but as harshness suggests, it's co-channel with WMCN in the Philadelphia market. If you get 44-1, you won't get Fox 5. In Philadelphia, it's running 620 kW. If you're too close to WNJT, however, the adjacent channel interference from 52-1 could be causing you difficulties.

Can you post a TVFool plot?

- Trip