Sky angel contract

[tucky]

Has anyone paid for a sky angel life time contract and then had them say they can't get their IPTV without having to pay again for the monthly service? Sky angel says the life time is not for the life time of the person but the lifetime of the satellite which I understand is to not be in service sometime in 2008.
I would consider this a breach of contract as a life time agreement in all cases that I know of means the person not equipment. If this is how they manage their services then I would advise avoid Sky angel.

 

[Wescopc]

Mods -
This should be moved to the SA forum.
Bob

 

[lumpkin666]

Best to do some reading as this has been discussed (debated?) extensively in the past. My opinion from reading the contracts that have been disclosed publicly is that the agreement is for the lifetime of the person or the distribution network (whichever ends first). People may believe that the distribution network directly means the lifetime of the satellite, but it could well be interpreted to mean the entire distribution network - meaning they could end it just by dissolving the logistical piece of distribution network.

Expect catkoko to comment on this and set us all straight again soon

 

[catkoko]

catkoko strikes agan

Boy I have some reputation. I won't go into it all again, as its already on the boards.

I personally contacted the vice president of sky angel, nancy. she told me that they were not planning on honoring the lifetime for sky angel.


That said there has been NO "official" notification that DBS is ending or that lifetime contracts will be not be honored.

Ads mailed advertising IPTV make no mention of ending DBS.

supposedly service will be shut off on or about 4/1/08

 

[momto3]

Yes, it is official, they are shutting down the satellite and our lifetime membership is null and void. I am a "lifetime" subscriber to Sky Angel, I don't understand how they can shut down one company and start another one using the same name, Sky Angel and say that is the end of the contract.
I can't afford high speed internet, the company that offers out here charges $60 a month, that would be on top of $15 - $25 a month to Sky Angel. We are VERY saddened by this turn of events, we really believed in the vision. I don't think Sky Angel will be spreading the gospel to the far reaches of the Earth by way of high speed internet. I think this is not what Mr. Johnson Sr. had in mind. I believe he was a sincere Christian man trying to further the Kingdom.

 

[Scroll]

I'm still not understanding why they wouldn't just extend the lifetime memberships over. It can't be the expense, I wouldn't think, so it has to be the revenue they hope to gain.

Unfortunately it is sounding like many cannot get IPTV and of those who can it's about 50/ 50 or less of those who are even willing to try it on any level. Not a good way to build support!

I considered their IPTV Family Package before I learned of the SA shutdown. But I decided that a DBS option was still best for me all in all as I have Tivos and love what they do for me. But I seriously considered getting IPTV for mom & other family. But that was then!

I know many folks want to wish Dominion well, whether staying or not. And I can appreciate that. Kinda turning the other cheek. But in all honesty I don't see this new scheme prospering. And ESPECIALLY if they choose to lock the box in any way so that you can't subscribe to other services which may otherwise be available through the same box. That, if true, will kill Dominion IPTV sure as day!


I'm looking at it this way. Remember when TBN President Paul Crouch said something to the effect of not minding one bit if they put his satellite space right next to Playboy because maybe a thirsty soul would stumble on to the Gospel? Same thinking. Again, as I've said elsewhere (and can't say it enough) I feel most of the faith channels should be free to anyone with the technology to receive them. That, IMO, is about the only way God would bless this endeavor. And if you don't believe me - just ask Him yourself!

 

[catkoko]

I think as people are receiving THE LETTER more will be speaking out. This is catching many totally unaware

CS told me "we don't make $ on lifetime subs". they had no problem taking my lifetime payment way back when.. they also told me they were considering an "offer" to lifetime members. Obviously didn't happen as the "free box with 18 month committment" is open to all, even new subs.

Back in june? they tried to get $5 a month extra from lifetime people. They alienated some with that stunt and all the while they already knew about iptv! new technology or not I can't see the majority of lifetime members agreeing to pay $24 per tv to continue getting sky angel.

Why they chose not to carry the lifetime over to IPTV is obviously about $$$. Even if they had made the offer, many could not have made the switch. Still would have been a nice parting gesture though.

Love of money has destroyed more than one ministry. its sad that sky angel appears to be following that path.

 

[Wescopc]

Love of money has destroyed more than one ministry.

LACK of money has destroyed many more ministries -
Bob

 

[catkoko]

I would rather see a ministry fail due to lack of support than greed. Lack of support shows they aren't reaching the right people. Making the cost of your ministry unaffordable to those who desire it could be seen as greed.

 

[jholland]

Just a clarification. Isn't Sky Angel a business, not a ministry? It is not a nonprofit organization. Just like Christian book publishers, Christian music producers . . . they may minister through their product, but they are not a ministry. Businesses have to make business decisions. Changes in technology, changes in the marketplace, high expenses that prohibit profit or make continued operation impossible . . . these are things that impact business decisions.

 

[catkoko]

Legal "non profit" or not, bob always said this was a ministry and asked for "donations". Yo don't usually donate to walmart and such.

supposedly there was a "non profit branch" of sky angel. the one that helped place sky angel in prisons and such. Which brings up another point, what happens to all those prisons? will sky angel be giving free IPTV to them?

 

[Scroll]

I think as people are receiving THE LETTER more will be speaking out. This is catching many totally unaware

Back in june? they tried to get $5 a month extra from lifetime people. They alienated some with that stunt and all the while they already knew about iptv! new technology or not I can't see the majority of lifetime members agreeing to pay $24 per tv to continue getting sky angel.

Love of money has destroyed more than one ministry. its sad that sky angel appears to be following that path.

Don't get me started on that period of time!

Remember the letters they sent out wanting our receiver id and other info when they were going to start charging for the secular channels? May be the same thing you're talking about.

Apparently they didn't get mine and I came home one day to find I had NO channels. Dish said Dominion canceled me (except I am a lifetimer, so I felt that was not likely to be the case) and they wanted to charge me a reconnect fee, plus a monthly access fee for my locals. That's when they started telling me about how the contract had been changed because of IPTV, which I didn't think the rep was right about. Every other time they had wrong information about SA and I had no reason not to think IPTV was in addition to SA.

My emails to SA went unanswered and it took me a week to get through by phone to correct the problem. I had a feeling like something was wrong, but I had no way of knowing how close to the vest SA was being with it's subscribers while Dish had no problem telling me what was happening. But again I was not inclined to believe a level 1 Dish CSR and was still upset over their attempt to charge me a reconnect fee and a monthly access fee (I chose not to restore the locals with them, btw).

I'm now wondering what the true reason for the "record update letter" was. Whether it was merely an attempt to weed out lifetime subs, or an attempt to generate more revenue while awaiting the unspoken IPTV switch over, or some secret deal with Dish to identify our receivers. But I certainly know they had no problem shutting my service off, so they obviously had my receiver info already!

I think Dominion needs from here on out to be more open (as possible) and up front with it's customers. It is difficult to justify this operation as a ministry when it treats it "partners" as bad or worse than the secular world.

As has been repeated many times, only a fraction of lifetimers even can obtain and afford the bandwidth for IPTV. I feel my proposal to remedy this situation is both possible and reasonable.

1) Lifetimers should receive ALL Faith channels.
2) Evangelical channels should not be encrypted for anyone with access to a similar IPTV box
3) The IPTV box should NOT be locked to prevent any other programming subscriptions
4) Similar to 3, compete and generate revenue with a paid package of family friendly secular channels

I feel fairly certain that this is about the ONLY way Dominion IPTV even stands a chance of prospering. We saw how IPTV Canada and even Apple and others have had problems with generating revenue from an internet appliance. So in my book this technology already has two strikes against it. Folks, they ain't flying off the shelves!

So if Dominion is to be a ministry let it stop charging for the Gospel. There are names for that sort of thing, you know?

 

[jashobeam]

So if Dominion is to be a ministry let it stop charging for the Gospel. There are names for that sort of thing, you know?

It is not free for SA to broadcast the Gospel via IPTV, so they should not be expected as a business to do that and loose money until they go bankrupt.

1 Timothy 5:18
For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."


Workers at SA deserve their wages. Unless people pay for the service, the workers will not get paid.

 

[Scroll]

It is not free for SA to broadcast the Gospel via IPTV, so they should not be expected as a business to do that and loose money until they go bankrupt.

1 Timothy 5:18
For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."


Workers at SA deserve their wages. Unless people pay for the service, the workers will not get paid.

There indeed IS the fine point. Is it a business or a ministry? You cannot serve two masters.

Again, if cost is the issue my solution provides for revenue. And if it's a ministry people will be more inclined to contribute donations. I've not heard of too many people intentionally overpaying their utility bill because the service ministers to their daily needs.

On another note, if the operation model is doomed to failure those employees will be out of work anyway.

 

[jashobeam]

I paid for service of SA. I would not give to SA. I see them as a business who fuels other ministries, much like a Christian bookstore. Pure ministries I would see as worth of donations:

Churches
Christian schools including Christian colleges
Crisis pregnancy centers
Food pantries, Christian services for the poor
Jail ministry
Feeding children here and overseas as wel as teaching them, providing clothes, and other necessitites while sharing the Gospel
Shelter for the homeless, addicts, pregnant women, domestic violence shelters for women & children on the run, training for new jobs (all Christian based, sharing the Gospel)
Evangelists, traveling musicians (not pro, or those who don't charge for their Chrisitan concerts)
Widows and orphans fund, shoebox ministries, Christmas Angel, Toys for kids w/a parent in prison


Businesses I would not consider donating to, but would (or have) purchase services from:
Christian bookstores
SA
Christian phone companies, internet companies, etc.
Christian concerts (pro)

 

[dstrouth]

Complaints, if you so feel inclined, can be filed with the Attorney General at 850-414-3990.

FL State Dept of Agriculture and Consumer Services 850-488-2221

BBB representing the county where SkyAngel HQ is located: 561-842-1918

 

[paulocomputers]

It was an excellent service while it lasted. Too good to be true!

My two daughters are the ones who are going to miss the most Sky Angel programming. They love to watch KTV, Safe TV, and 3ABN. Sky Angel is not honoring their promise of providing free Christian television for life to all its lifetime subscribers. I have Sky Angel for a long time and was a great supporter of their ministry. I have referred them to my parents and my sister and they both became lifetime subscribers as well. I even installed the dish for them besides my own, of course. I was very excited to have Christian programming at my home.
I could not believe on what I was reading on the letter from the CEO Mr. Rob Johnson. I don’t want to get into the matter of discussing their difficulties in maintaining their service because I firmly believe that the situation is not that bad as explained by Mr. Johnson. For a company that breaches a contract you can expect anything. Interesting enough their actions were very carefully planned. Legally, they are covered because the contract gives them all the power to “change, rearrange, add or delete programming channels and change subscription prices” at any time they want. When you sign a contract like this with a worldly company you can expect this to happen at any moment, but you have “FAITH” that a Christian company would at least offer its loyal customers a way out.
The option of having a free IPTV box is nothing special. Any new customers get that with a commitment of 18 months. In my area, DSL at the bandwidth they are asking is not available so even if I wanted to continue supporting who stabs me in the back I can’t. That gives me a motivation to NOT recommend the new service to at least two other potential customers (my parents and my sister).
I always thought that Sky Angel was a ministry and not only an ordinary business. Mr. Johnson (father) had a vision to spread the gospel throughout the world by satellite broadcasting. It is a shame that now his son is not making an effort to continue his father’s vision. It seems that the vision now is all about profit. I can guarantee you that IPTV will not have as much coverage and reach as many people as satellite does. IPTV is expensive, not available everywhere and inconvenient. By shutting down the satellite signal they are removing the gospel from thousands and thousands of homes that will not be able to continue receiving the spiritual messages due to economic or equipment/technical difficulties.
As I read all the comments from the frustrated and betrayed customers I think about how it is going to be when Jesus comes back and ask Mr. Johnson what he has done with the ministry he inherit from his father. I hope he will know how to explain the thousands of lives they didn’t reach with the gospel because of greed.
I feel sorry for all the Christian channels being broadcasted through Sky Angel and I firmly hope that they will find another satellite company that would take their signal and spread to the thousands of people in need to hear the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I would like to finish this pacific protest by saying that I really enjoyed having Sky Angel programming in my home during all these years. It is very sad that even thou I am still alive my “lifetime” subscription was abruptly taken from me.

 

[The Shadow Knows]

The original "lifetime" I purchased was in Sky Angel's infancy before there was a satellite in the sky. The lifetime was for myself and my spouse, nothing about a satellite. I guess I have a case, but what would I gain by a law suit? Nothing. I do feel they should offer more than they are, at least something to the lifetime people, after all Sky Angel would not exist if it wasn't for the people that invested way back then. The problem I have is they can't offer me anything because I can't get high speed internet to even get the service. An option would be for Sky Angel to offer their Sky Angel 1 & 2 to Dish for free public access and for Dish to pick up the other channels themselves and offer their own package. It wouldn't be free, but at least we could get the channels on equipment we already have.

 

[ShaneLinder]

The story is told of a southern woman who showed General Lee what had been a beautiful oak tree in her front yard but was destroyed by the yankees at the end of the war. She was mourning the loss of the tree and telling the general how terrible it was to lose it. The general simply replied, cut it down and forget about it. So it is with Sky Angel. Some things are just better to put behind us and forget about.

The best thing to do is get set up with Glorystar and help promote them in your community. I have taken out an ad in a local newspaper promoting Glorystar. Just a small ad in the classifieds can be cheap and effective. It gets the word out to a lot of Christians that read the paper and know nothing of Glorystar.

 

[catkoko]

There is a link on this forum somewhere to flyers you can hang up to promote glorystar. Costs nothing but your time and a bit of ink If I can find it will repost the link