Signals from 5 directions

[larrykenney]

Many of you guys seem very knowledgable about antenna systems, so I'll present my situation and see if you have any answers.

I now have a Antenna Craft D9000 VHF-UHF-FM antenna on a rotor and I can get all of the stations in our area with no problem with it. However, I recently got a ViP-622 DVR, so having an antenna on a rotor is not a good way to go.

If you go to antennaweb.org and put in my zip code 94114 you'll see that I have lots of digital stations to chose from. Sutro Tower with 11 UHF stations is just 3/4 of a mile west of me, Mt. San Bruno with 3 stations (1 VHF on 12 and 2 UHFs) is 5 miles to the south, two UHF's are 30 miles to the east and four UHF's are 35 miles to the southeast. You'll also see a lot of stations in Sacramento 60 - 65 miles away, but you can forget those. There are high hills between and there and we can't get any of those stations.

Now can any of you figure out a way to connect four different antennas into one down feed so that I can eliminate the rotor and have all of the signals available for recording? The stations from Sutro Tower come in on just about anything, since I'm so close, but the others actually need a real antenna pointed at them.

I have two 4228's and a 4221 in the basement that are available for this project. I can use the 4221 for the Sutro stations, a 4228 for the stations 5 and 30 miles out, and the D9000 for the ones at 35 miles, but I can't figure out a way to connect all of the antennas together.

Since there is more than one station in each direction, I don't think a Jointenna will work, except for possibly in the southeast direction. The stations there transmit on channels 49, 50, 51 and 52, so maybe a Jointenna for 50 or 51 would work... maybe not.

Anyway, if any of you have any ideas, I'd certainly appreciate hearing them.

By the way, as others have pointed out, the 4228 UHF antenna works fine for VHF channel 12.

Larry
SF

 

[Rick0725]

I eventually got the locals supplied by satellite...the costs and hassle involved using off air when I purchased my hd tivo was not worth the aggrevation. I found that I recorded most on sd because hd took too much space on the hard drive.

still have my locals on my hd8200p for the other sets in the home to enjoy other options.

I will give it another look later this evening.

I ran this by the cm technical staff...multiple (several) jointennas not advised (too much loss)...knew of nothing on the market for multiple channels...suggested a-b-c switch...wonderful...right?

in the mean time...can you group the channels you are interested in... each direction...by antenna...there are many channels involved and it will save some time figuring this out.

 

[raoul5788]

Many of you guys seem very knowledgable about antenna systems, so I'll present my situation and see if you have any answers.

I now have a Antenna Craft D9000 VHF-UHF-FM antenna on a rotor and I can get all of the stations in our area with no problem with it. However, I recently got a ViP-622 DVR, so having an antenna on a rotor is not a good way to go.

If you go to antennaweb.org and put in my zip code 94114 you'll see that I have lots of digital stations to chose from. Sutro Tower with 11 UHF stations is just 3/4 of a mile west of me, Mt. San Bruno with 3 stations (1 VHF on 12 and 2 UHFs) is 5 miles to the south, two UHF's are 30 miles to the east and four UHF's are 35 miles to the southeast. You'll also see a lot of stations in Sacramento 60 - 65 miles away, but you can forget those. There are high hills between and there and we can't get any of those stations.

Now can any of you figure out a way to connect four different antennas into one down feed so that I can eliminate the rotor and have all of the signals available for recording? The stations from Sutro Tower come in on just about anything, since I'm so close, but the others actually need a real antenna pointed at them.

I have two 4228's and a 4221 in the basement that are available for this project. I can use the 4221 for the Sutro stations, a 4228 for the stations 5 and 30 miles out, and the D9000 for the ones at 35 miles, but I can't figure out a way to connect all of the antennas together.

Since there is more than one station in each direction, I don't think a Jointenna will work, except for possibly in the southeast direction. The stations there transmit on channels 49, 50, 51 and 52, so maybe a Jointenna for 50 or 51 would work... maybe not.

Anyway, if any of you have any ideas, I'd certainly appreciate hearing them.

By the way, as others have pointed out, the 4228 UHF antenna works fine for VHF channel 12.

Larry
SF

I have a CM 4228 also. It picks up stations "behind" it very well, even high vhf ones. Try setting it up pointed to the western stations. You will likely pick up the ones to the east, and maybe even the ones to the south. Good luck!

 

[Jim5506]

Your digital stations are so close you could probably get them on a coat hanger. I would try an omnidirectional antenna from a reputable manufacturer, such as the Channel Master 3000 Smartenna, or the Winegard MS-1000 or a coathanger.

For UHF you can substitute a straightened paperclip for the coathanger.

 

[larrykenney]

Thanks for the input!

I get all of the locals from Dish, but they're all analog channels. They don't offer HD locals here yet, nor any of the digital channels. After watching HD, I can't go back. I keep wanting to yell "Focus" when watching the analog channels.

I figured that Jointennas wouldn't work because of the variety of channels from each direction, except maybe for the cluster of four together to the southeast (49, 50, 51 and 52).

For the signals from Sutro Tower, yes, a paper clip will work, but it's not reliable. Cars and the occasional bus going by cause break up, probably due to reflections. For the other directions a real antenna is needed.

Maybe an omnidirectional antenna would work, but with all the hills around here, there might be problems from multipath. It just might be worth a try though!

I tried the back side of the 4228, as Raoul suggested, but the signals aren't strong enough off the back to give me a picture.

Rick suggested that I group the channels I'm interested in for each direction by antenna. I've done that and have tried the various antennas I would use for each direction - the 4221 for the Sutro stations, a 4228 for the stations to the south at 5 miles and east at 30 miles out, and the D9000 for the ones at 35 miles. They all work individually, so an A-B-C switch would work, but that's really no better than one antenna and a rotor.

I'll keep an eye on this in case anyone else has any ideas.

Thanks again.

Larry
SF

 

[Rick0725]

larry

group the channels you are interested in by antenna/ location for us here so it is easier to analyze ...it will be in black and white.

 

[bhelms]

Just curious - have you tried combiners? I realize these are more likely to cause rather than solve problems, but you never know. Maybe that idea won't work for all of your antennas but there might be a combination that does work for a couple them. If you have one antenna that's providing very strong signals and those are interfering with weaker combined signals, then you might be able to add an attenuator to the line from the strong antenna to balance things out. Cheap things to try if you already have the antennas installed and multiple cables running to 1 location. Just my 2-cents worth...!

 

[larrykenney]

larry

group the channels you are interested in by antenna/ location for us here so it is easier to analyze ...it will be in black and white.

OK... these are the transmitter channel numbers

Sutro Tower: 19, 24, 29, 30, 33, 34, 39, 43, 45, 56, 57 - 3/4 mile west CM4221

Mt. San Bruno: 12, 27, 41 - 5 miles south CM4228

Mt. Diablo: 62, 63 - 30 miles east CM4228

San Jose: 49, 50, 51, 52 - 35 miles southeast Antenna Craft D9000

Larry

 

[larrykenney]

Just curious - have you tried combiners?

I've tried splitters used backward with a couple of antennas... not all four... and some signals drop quite a bit in signal quality/strength reading while others do okay and stay about the same. An attenuator helps, but I think the signals from Sutro Tower are so strong they reflect off of everything... hills, buildings, water tanks, whatever, so there are lots of multipath problems.

I have noticed that the OTA receiver in the ViP-622 is better than any receiver I've used before, so that helps!

Larry

 

[Tower Guy]

Many of you guys seem very knowledgable about antenna systems, so I'll present my situation and see if you have any answers.

If you go to antennaweb.org and put in my zip code 94114 you'll see that I have lots of digital stations to chose from. Now can any of you figure out a way to connect four different antennas into one down feed so that I can eliminate the rotor and have all of the signals available for recording? The stations from Sutro Tower come in on just about anything, since I'm so close, but the others actually need a real antenna pointed at them.

I have two 4228's and a 4221 in the basement that are available for this project. I can use the 4221 for the Sutro stations, a 4228 for the stations 5 and 30 miles out, and the D9000 for the ones at 35 miles, but I can't figure out a way to connect all of the antennas together.

Anyway, if any of you have any ideas, I'd certainly appreciate hearing them.

By the way, as others have pointed out, the 4228 UHF antenna works fine for VHF channel 12.

Larry
SF

I'd limit the choices for DVR'ing to two directions, Sutro and San Bruno. Channels 49-52 will have to be tuned in manually. The first thing that I'd try is the 4228 aimed at Sutro (tilit it up; aimed at the top of the tower) and the rotatable antenna at San Bruno. Try adding them together with a splitter used backwards. If that works you can try channels 49-52 just by aiming the rotator in that direction temporarily. If that does not work, try three Jointennas for channels 12, 27, and 41, fix the all channel antenna on San Bruno and put the 4228 on the rotator and turn it for channels 49-52. I would not be concerned about the losses in Jointennas because the signal levels at your location will be very high.

Aiming the 4228 up at Sutro may be critical to eliminate ghosting.

 

[Rick0725]

nice job tower guy...was hoping you would help.

my expertise is not in this area and I always learn something when you post. it makes me expand my mind to explore other opportunites and do some research.

 

[larrykenney]

Thanks, Tower Guy, for the possibilities!

Despite being close to Sutro, I have no problems receiving the stations from there. I don't even have to tilt the antenna.

Using a splitter backward I'll try adding the 4228 pointed toward San Bruno to the antenna (4221) pointed at Sutro and see what I get. They might be close enough so that it works.

Larry
SF

 

[Tower Guy]

Thanks, Tower Guy, for the possibilities!

Despite being close to Sutro, I have no problems receiving the stations from there. I don't even have to tilt the antenna.

Using a splitter backward I'll try adding the 4228 pointed toward San Bruno to the antenna (4221) pointed at Sutro and see what I get. They might be close enough so that it works.

Larry
SF

The reason for tilting the antenna up at the top of the Mt. Sutro tower is to minimize any reflection of stations from other directions bouncing off the mountain.

 

[larrykenney]

I put up the 4221, and pointed upward toward the tower. I was able to get all 11 digital channels. I then tied it in with the 4228 pointed at Mt. San Bruno using a backward splitter. Success! I now get the three stations from Mt. San Bruno plus 10 of the 11 stations on Sutro. One of the Sutro stations disappeared, but it's one I never watch.

With this arrangement I get ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC, WB, UPN, I/PAX and 2 PBS channels, as well as some other channels, so this will work great for recording with the 622 DVR. The signals are all a strength of 86 or higher, and they seem to be holding steady.

Thanks, guys, for the suggestions.

Larry
SF