Signal strength dropping - can customer adjust?

[haertig]

It'e been a while since I checked the signal strength coming into my 522. On installation it was low/mid 80's (about 2-1/2 months ago). I noticed an increase in problems recently so I checked signal strength again.

I was surprized to find it had deteriorated to 71/72 on 110 and 72/73 on 119. This was on both tuners. I don't know what that transponder setting is so I left it set to 14 for this test (where it was initially).

Is there something I can do to improve this myself? I have a very clear line of sight to the satellites per the original install tech. What does one do to improve signal strength? Repoint the dish? Call for tech support and let them do it? My dish is low to the ground and I can easily get to it. It doesn't appear that they grounded it when it was installed 2-1/2 months ago. I don't know if this matters. I have Dish 500 if that's a factor. Today is cloudy, but not stormy - no rain.

Thanks

 

[Mr Tony]

try TP11 and see what you get

You could try to "tweak" it. Move it a little to the left or right to see if that helps

 

[Cascade]

It doesn't appear that they grounded it when it was installed 2-1/2 months ago. I don't know if this matters.

Don't let PSB see you say that, he'll call you a chump

 

[SimpleSimon]

YES - grounding matters! Do a search and read some threads on what's needed and do it! It's a safety issue - yours, your houses, and the equipment!

As for signal strength - always use TPs 11 & 12 (both!) and let us know. Most areas of the country should be able to get those transponders on 110 & 119 at around 100, although I've seen some posts that say the 522 reads "low".

It's not hard to re-peak your dish. In fact, you'll probably do a better job than an installer because you'll be going slow as a first-timer, and because it's your own stuff. You'll get all the help you need right here to get-r-done.

 

[haertig]

As for signal strength - always use TPs 11 & 12 (both!) and let us know. Most areas of the country should be able to get those transponders on 110 & 119 at around 100, although I've seen some posts that say the 522 reads "low".

Like a dutiful little geek I went through each transponder/satellite combo with my 522. I'm in the Denver/Boulder Colordao area if that matters.

The requested readings:

110/11=76, 110/12=67
119/11=85, 119/12=73

Highest readings:

110/4=113
119/11=85

Summary of all readings:

110: A group in the mid-60's, a group in the mid-70's, a few with nothing, and the atypical transponder 4 with 113!

119: A group in the low-70's, a group in the mid-80's, a few with nothing, no transponder stood out like 110/4

I did notice on several transponders that one time they'd show nothing, then the next they'd have a signal, then nothing on the third check, etc. The ones that NEVER had any signal are the ones I'm talking about above when I said "a few with nothing".

Just for grins, I checked signal strength with my 322 as well. The readings were similar to my 522:

322/110/11=79, 322/110/12=70, 322/110/4=116
322/119/11=88, 322/119/12=76

I've seen some posts that say the 522 reads "low"

My 322 readings look like they support this statement. Each one is a tad higher than the same sat/transponder combo on the 522.

So, do all you gurus out there think this looks typical, pitiful, or good? I don't really know how to interpret it.

Thanks

 

[Mr Tony]

I think you could tweak it a little more

Even my old 5000 (which goes to a max of 100 no matter what even though the max is 125) I can get around 95 on TP11 119

 

[SimpleSimon]

Yeah - in Colorado without obstructions, you should not have any trouble getting 100+ on 110/119 tp 11/12. It sounds like the installer was just lazy.

Note that 110 tp4 is your Denver spotbeam, and so should be hotter.

Don't worry about missing ones - they're just missing. If you get 11 & 12 on 110 & 119, you're fine.

EDIT: CORRECT 21 to 21 in the above sentence

As for peaking your signal, start by just knudging the dish with your hand - don't loosen anything, just lightly "lean" on it a bit. Go slow, see what it does, as you press on various sides of the dish. You'll get a feel for it. THEN, SLIGHTLY loosen the screws so that your knudges will "take". Double-check but do NOT change your skew unless it's definitely wrong. Elevation & azimuth are the most important.

 

[haertig]

Thanks for all of the help everybody. Maybe I was incorrect in initially saying that my signal strength had dropped. Could be that I was remembering mid-80's because at install I was looking at a different transponder than just recently.

Now that you guys have straightened me out, I cannot 100% say I've experienced a drop, but I think I can say that my signal should/could be better.

I will attempt some movement of the dish. We ended up having a really gully-washer of a rainstorm late afternoon/early evening and I didn't have a chance to do anything today. Maybe tomorrow.

SimpleSimon - I understand elevation and azimuth related to the dish, but I'm stretching a bit on what you called "skew". To my limited brain, skew means "cocked off at some angle" but I'm not putting two and two together to understand what this means in relation to moving the dish. Rotation around it's axis perhaps? I guess if I limit myself to motions I understand - elevation and azimuth - then I won't skew anything, even if I don't really understand what skew means. Right?

Thanks again you guys!

 

[Wishbone]

As for peaking your signal, start by just knudging the dish with your hand - don't loosen anything, just lightly "lean" on it a bit. Go slow, see what it does, as you press on various sides of the dish. You'll get a feel for it. THEN, SLIGHTLY loosen the screws so that your knudges will "take". Double-check but do NOT change your skew unless it's definitely wrong. Elevation & azimuth are the most important.

I've always wondered how one checks these things while on the roof... The only way that I can see your nudging method working is if I brought my receiver and TV on the roof to see on the screen what the results are.. Is there some secret installers trick?

My signal is usually around 80.. My installer just used the existing dish and never went up to adjust it... This was before I knew what to check. I've had one medium rain so far with the sig strength still around 80.

 

[SimpleSimon]

SimpleSimon - I understand elevation and azimuth related to the dish, but I'm stretching a bit on what you called "skew". To my limited brain, skew means "cocked off at some angle" but I'm not putting two and two together to understand what this means in relation to moving the dish. Rotation around it's axis perhaps? I guess if I limit myself to motions I understand - elevation and azimuth - then I won't skew anything, even if I don't really understand what skew means. Right?

You're right - Skew is "cocked off at some angle". Because of the difference in elevation between the 2 birds, the LNBFs have to be 'cocked'. If you are at around 115W, the 2 "eyes" will be level, otherwise, they won't. Skew is set on the back of the dish. Read it off your Point Dish screen, and check what the installer did, but it's easy to set, and they don't often screw up that part of the job.

I've always wondered how one checks these things while on the roof... The only way that I can see your nudging method working is if I brought my receiver and TV on the roof to see on the screen what the results are.. Is there some secret installers trick?

There's a couple of ways - turn up the sound on the TV so you can hear the tone or have someone call out numbers to you. The secret installers trick is a sat-meter - but I only use that for initial aiming. Course, mine's not a $300 meter either.

My signal is usually around 80.. My installer just used the existing dish and never went up to adjust it... This was before I knew what to check. I've had one medium rain so far with the sig strength still around 80.

80 is pretty low for most of the country - if we're talking 110 & 119 and transponders 11 & 12.

 

[Wishbone]

There's a couple of ways - turn up the sound on the TV so you can hear the tone or have someone call out numbers to you. The secret installers trick is a sat-meter - but I only use that for initial aiming. Course, mine's not a $300 meter either.

80 is pretty low for most of the country - if we're talking 110 & 119 and transponders 11 & 12.

Thanks for the info.. My dish is pretty far away from the reciever, but I didn't think about the signal tone.. I guess I can rig my boom box outside and feed in the audio to its inputs.. So, how quick is the response? Will the tone change instantly upon nudging? Or is there like a 2-second delay? The reason why I'm asking is because when switching the check between transponder or sats, there seems to be a 3 second delay.

Yep, 110 & 119 TP 11 & 12 are averaging 82.

 

[SimpleSimon]

You're right about the delay. Mucho patience and time is needed to peak a dish correctly - which is why the typical installer (paid by the job not the hour) just won't do it.

 

[kn6k]

My favorite way to aim Satellite dish is to use the RF output from the receiver to a handheld Casio TV which I bring up to the dish location. That way i can see the point dish screen right at the dish while I am adjusting it. Works with any receiver that has RF output (not 811) if you can run a temporary coax back up to the dish location.

 

[SimpleSimon]

My favorite way to aim Satellite dish is to use the RF output from the receiver to a handheld Casio TV which I bring up to the dish location. That way i can see the point dish screen right at the dish while I am adjusting it. Works with any receiver that has RF output (not 811) if you can run a temporary coax back up to the dish location.

Or, hook in a couple of diplexers to get there.

 

[haertig]

My signal strength did improve a bit after re-peaking the dish. I emailed Dish tech support and asked what they thought my signal strength should be. I then left for a trip and forgot about the email I sent. Upon returning, I found an email from Dish saying a tech was coming out to check my signal the next morning (next, only because I was gone for a few days and didn't see the email earlier). I didn't request this, but wasn't going to complain. He adjusted the dish as I read out the signal strength to him over a phone/intercom. We worked on adjusting the thing for around 15 minutes. He mentioned that with the Dish 500 and dual tuner receivers that my signal strength might be a bit lower than single tuner receivers. He also said that my skew was off by a degree and a half which would explain why my signal off of 110 was low initially. Whatever. Here are the results of the re-peaking.

Before re-peaking:
==============
110/11=76, 110/12=67
119/11=85, 119/12=73

After re-peaking:
=============
110/11=84, 110/12=79
119/11=91 , 119/12=81

The "after" readings were on a beautiful, clear, not-a-cloud-in-the-sky Colorado morning.

 

[SimpleSimon]

haertig: Unless you've got obstructions, those numbers still suck for a Colorado site. It should not be a problem to get 100+ here. I always do.

 

[haertig]

haertig: Unless you've got obstructions, those numbers still suck for a Colorado site. It should not be a problem to get 100+ here. I always do.

Yes, I remember you saying that earlier. I may give the re-peaking a whirl on my own after a bit. I don't have any obstructions. The tech said that with satellite signals, your signal is either there, or it isn't. And your resulting picture is either good or bad - nothing in the middle. He said mid-80's would give a fine picture. The problem he noted was when it's heavily overcast you can lose 15 points off that clear day signal strength, and that's why you want your dish peaked - to keep you at least in the 70's on a bad day. That's what he said. I don't know if this is good info or B.S. He seemed like a knowledgeable guy.

BTW, I demoed to him the audio/video freezes the 522 is having during non-live playback. He said yep, that has nothing to do with signal strength. Probably HD fragmentation, underpowered CPU, or software problems - just like everybody else here already is leaning towards as an explanation. He said he could give me another 522 but he highly doubted it would fix what he was observing. He honestly didn't appear to have seen these problems demoed before, and agreed that "this sucks"!

 

[SimpleSimon]

His info is halfway there. Overcast in and of itself is not an issue - but Colorado storm clouds carry lots of moisture. Yes, 15 points down can happen - and when it gets low enough you get dropouts - pixellation and no audio. Some might call that "bad picture". Bottom line, the more you have on a clear day, the fewer rain fade hits you're gonna take over the long haul.

He's 100% right about the 522.