Should Voom allow to sell and activate 2nd hand units?

[exoticbargain]

Dear All,
Hope this will get to the right person and/or company...
Recently I bought a Voom(Motorola) receiver from ebay.
The seller listed the unit as ready to use unit with access card and everything needed.
At that time, I was not aware that actually nobody is allowed to sell these units except Voom and it's authorized dealers, (Sears and Crutchfield)
After buying it, I found it from Voom customer service that they'll not activate such a unit because it's forbidden to buy/sell units like this and it's considered stolen unit/service. Well after the aqusation of being a fraud, I reached back eBay, their PayPal buyer protection service and filed a return/refund claim.
I sent them the Sorry, I forgot to add, if you can send a fax explaning the violation of reselling these units, eBay will void this auction, refund the money and by taking this as a sample ban the other Voom auctions and sales...

The documents must be faxed to PayPal at (402) 537-5760. Please include a cover sheet with your fax that includes my email address sales@exoticbargain.com and the ID number of my claim (PP-041-589-967) so that they may attach the documents to the claim as quickly as possible.

Thanks,
Nazim Orenoom customer agreement clearly states that
Now Ebay is asking me to get something is writing from Voom or from unbiased third party company that Voom will not register the item I bought as the Seller is not authorized to sell such items.
I would really appretiate if any authorized person or company can fax me in their company letter head that Voom will not register and provide service for this unit...
My fax number is 212-820-9729, if you need further information please do not hesitate to call me from my cell anytime, 917-972-7736.
They wants us to include the serial numbers of the unit and access card too.
Unit's serial number is 0698474008019651, Access Card's serial number is 00000251843.
I attached below the auction and seller's details and Ebay/PayPal's respond to dispute, void this sale and refund this $292.95 charge, this will most importantly lead them to block any sale of these items on eBay; so that no one will get hurt and loose $290+ for nothing...
I would appretiate any help.


Voom (Motorola Receiver)'s Ebay auction web address is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5704300332

Last email regarding the dispute:


----- Original Message -----
From: <service@paypal.com>
To: <sales@exoticbargain.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:09 PM
Subject: Your Complaint PP-041-589-967 BP190:


> Dear Nazim Oren,
>
> We are currently in the process of investigating your claim:
>
> Case Number: PP-041-589-967
> Transaction Date: Jun. 12, 2004
> Transaction Amount: -$292.95 USD
> Seller's Email: speeddm6@sbcglobal.net
> Seller's Name: kenneth whitney
>
> Our records show that you have provided faxed documentation to support your
> claim of merchandise received significantly not-as-described.
>
> The documentation we are requesting must come from an unbiased third party
> that has physically seen and inspected the item(s) in question. Or you may
> have the service provider fax us a letter stating that they will not
> register the item you received as the Seller is not authorized to sell such
> items.
>
> This letter must also state the item name, make, model number and the
> serial number (if applicable) of the item that is being evaluated. In the
> event that the item does not have these features, please have the evaluator
> note the item name, and the description of the item to the fullest
> capability. In the evaluation, notations should be made as to the
> condition of the item presented, possibility of repair and the cost of the
> repair and/or any missing items.
>
> The documents must be faxed to PayPal at (402) 537-5760. Please include a
> cover sheet with your fax that includes the email address registered on
> your PayPal account and the ID number of your claim (PP-041-589-967) so
> that we may attach the documents to your claim as quickly as possible.
>
> We must receive your fax within five (5) calendar days from the date of
> this message in order to proceed with the investigation of your claim.
> Failure to respond may result in the cancellation of your claim.
>
> Note: By providing the requested documentation does not guarantee that a
> refund will be given. Your claim will be evaluated upon receipt of
> supporting documentation.
>
> Please contact us at complaint-response@paypal.com or simply reply to this
> email if you have any further questions regarding your dispute.
>
> Thank you for your patience and cooperation regarding this matter.
>
> Sincerely,
> Matthew
> Protection Services Department
>

 

[TYORK]

have you tried to get this from voom ?

 

[1080iBeVuMin]

I guess I don't understand this ownership policy. Why would anyone ever buy the equipment if they could never sell it? It is a door-stop for anyone except the original buyer? Looks like I will always lease.

 

[lostcause]

WTF??? You mean to tell me that if I were to suddenly decide to pony up the 500.00(or more) for a box and buy it outright, I don't have the right to sell it as I please?!?!?!? Will voom then buy it back from me since I can't sell it to anyone else?? And if someone else decides to sell their box that they bought legitimately, I don't have the right to buy it?!?!?! This is quite possibly the stupidest policy I have ever seen (and maybe even illegal based on consumer and fair trade laws)!!!

 

[bbtkd]

WTF??? You mean to tell me that if I were to suddenly decide to pony up the 500.00(or more) for a box and buy it outright, I don't have the right to sell it as I please?!?!?!? Will voom then buy it back from me since I can't sell it to anyone else?? And if someone else decides to sell their box that they bought legitimately, I don't have the right to buy it?!?!?! This is quite possibly the stupidest policy I have ever seen (and maybe even illegal based on consumer and fair trade laws)!!!

I'm not a lawyer - but - the only way they can make it illegal to sell the box is if they make you agree to sell it back to them. Otherwise it is yours. I can see where selling a rental box would be illegal. And - of course - they can refuse to authorize any box.

Voom - what would the harm be in agreeing to activate any box which has not been recorded as stolen, is not a rental unit, and has no accrued charges associated with it. That is what the rest of the satellite and all of the cell industry do!

 

[Indy]

I emailed bidders on ebay for weeks when the boxes started to show up to warn of this policy. I even emailed the sellers. Sad but true, it is a boat anchor and nothing else. I guess Voom figures they pissed off a couple of thousand people but in the whole scheme of things they figure they can take the bad PR and keep the money, screw the buyers and the second hand buyers. For once in my life I am happy to have waited and not jump on for a ride too early! Renting a box and not regretting it!

 

[vurbano]

I guess I don't understand this ownership policy. Why would anyone ever buy the equipment if they could never sell it? It is a door-stop for anyone except the original buyer? Looks like I will always lease.

I agree I will NEVER , EVER buy a unit until it has resale value. That is like buying "nothing"

 

[TechCop]

I'm not going to comment on the legality either.

My guess is the "no second-hand STB" rule is justified in some way. Two possibilities:

1) We already know about the first generation boxes that were swapped out due to technical issues. I doubt if VOOM wants a wave of those surfacing to be re-activated. They have enough "irons in the fire" as it is. It suits me fine that they are making folks follow the rules.

2) It reduces the chance of piracy or the perception thereof. Anything that helps VOOM's security helps us all. Content providers are going to be a lot more willing to sell thru VOOM if they feel it is a theft-free outlet. That should eventually be reflected in the rates, if it is not already. You know that has to be part of their pitch to prospective providers: "No freeloaders on VOOM!"

My question is this: Why would anyone buy something like a used VOOM receiver on ebay without looking into activation (or the fact that it may be obsolete?) when you can get a brand new one, no money down, no contract?

 

[occammd]

I would think that this is illegal for VOOM to do. If they can validate the SN# on the box I would think that you would have a court case. Just my opinion.

 

[The Stone Man]

I think the access card should be controlled, but the equipment itself could be sold. According to the customer agreement, the access card authorizes the service, and the access card is tied to the box serial number. If somebody wants to buy a receiver, they can't activate the service without an access card, and the access card is always the property of Voom--even if you own the STB.

In my case, I purchased the STB in January. At that time, it was the ONLY option. Voom charged $749 for the receiver, dish, LNB, etc. etc. Later, there was a $300 rebate given to the early purchasers, and then they offered the capability to switch to a lease. There are a few people who never switched from purchase to lease, and I'm one of them. The STB has worked fine for 6 months--going on 7. If I ever cancelled Voom, I obviously would not need the STB, but it still has some value.

Voom could buy it back and use it as a rental unit. Installs Inc could buy it and use it as a replacement box or for parts. There are probably about 1000 people on this forum who would want to have a rental unit that works right. I have no intention of cancelling, but my point is that the equipment does retain value. And it will not work unless it has a validated access card that ties the box together with your phone number and billing address, so let people sell the equipment if they desire, and exercise system control through the access card.

And why did I never switch from purchase to lease? Purchase came with a 2 year warranty, they gave a $300 rebate (have had service since 1/2/2004 and just now paid first $ for programming in July), DVR coming sometime so I could use the STB as a second receiver, don't like renting anything, whatever. But that was my choice. And if I ever cancel Voom, I'm prepared to live with the fact that I may have an expensive frisbee.

 

[TYORK]

I think this is great that voom will not activate this boxes cause these are probley the boxes that have come up missing from tech about a month or so ago there were a bunch of boxes that were uncounted so they made us do a complete inventory and now if we are not home they will not leave this equipment we have to sign for everything that comes from voom. Now think about it not may of these box are sold outright cause of the price. and the only way to get a rental is thought the tech so how is all these boxes showing up on ebay brand new .

TYORK

 

[WickedDyno]

Perhaps voom's system shows that that box was stolen, and that's why they won't activate it. Maybe the seller on EBAY had hot merchandise?

 

[TYORK]

Perhaps voom's system shows that that box was stolen, and that's why they won't activate it. Maybe the seller on EBAY had hot merchandise?

that is why the will not activate them they can tell by the serial number and access card where these boxes were sent to.

 

[lostcause]

If it's stolen then fine... turn the info over to the cops. If it's not stolen, why should they care where it came from? If it's unauthorized signal decryption they are concerned about, this is controlled by the access card, not the box. Just do what dtv does...you can buy a box anywhere, but then you have to pay dtv 20.00 for a card. They generally won't activate a card off the street. I wouldn't have a problem with a policy like this.

Not letting you sell a box you personally own or not allowing someone to buy it from you sounds a little illegal if you ask me. Refusing to activate a legitimately purchased box is ultimately the same thing. They should just sell you a card for X number of $$$ and activate it.

 

[1080iBeVuMin]

My guess is the "no second-hand STB" rule is justified in some way. Two possibilities:

1) We already know about the first generation boxes that were swapped out due to technical issues. I doubt if VOOM wants a wave of those surfacing to be re-activated. They have enough "irons in the fire" as it is. It suits me fine that they are making folks follow the rules.

2) It reduces the chance of piracy or the perception thereof. Anything that helps VOOM's security helps us all. Content providers are going to be a lot more willing to sell thru VOOM if they feel it is a theft-free outlet. That should eventually be reflected in the rates, if it is not already. You know that has to be part of their pitch to prospective providers: "No freeloaders on VOOM!"

My question is this: Why would anyone buy something like a used VOOM receiver on ebay without looking into activation (or the fact that it may be obsolete?) when you can get a brand new one, no money down, no contract?

I have to admit these are good points for the other side of the argument.

And a good "reason to buy" is that, even if the box has zero resale value (unless Voom or Installs graciously agrees to buy it back from you for $5 because nobody else can buy it and use it) your advantage of buying is that you do limit your cash out. With leasing, you keep on paying, month after month, after month.

So, if your choice is to pay $400 to buy (even with zero resale value) or to pay $10 a month to lease, you would need to expect to stay with Voom for at least 40 months to make the purchase worth it. Really, more than 40 months when you consider bank interest you forego. After that time, you should not mind a zero resale value when you are done with it.

In any case, I can see Voom never authorizing obsolete boxes or hot boxes. But it does seem overly restrictive NEVER to reauthorize a legal box after the first owner.

 

[voomvoom]

If it's stolen then fine... turn the info over to the cops. If it's not stolen, why should they care where it came from? If it's unauthorized signal decryption they are concerned about, this is controlled by the access card, not the box. Just do what dtv does...you can buy a box anywhere, but then you have to pay dtv 20.00 for a card. They generally won't activate a card off the street. I wouldn't have a problem with a policy like this.

Not letting you sell a box you personally own or not allowing someone to buy it from you sounds a little illegal if you ask me. Refusing to activate a legitimately purchased box is ultimately the same thing. They should just sell you a card for X number of $$$ and activate it.

I agree with lostcause... would just like to add... it's good to know dtv has come down to 20.00 for a card, it used to be 50.00... of coarse that was 6 or 7 years ago... not to mention, you had to mail your old card to them and wait for a new one to arrive...

 

[mattyro]

lets face it-we all know of an instance where you say to yourself--"I cant beleive what just happened". After buying a messed up Dishplayer/Hughes-whatever box and adding it to your service,it breaks. Dish or Direct take the old unit and send you a new one!!. Yeah, youre stuck with a year commit, but it's not as if I wasnt gonna watch tv next year!!. My point is we all have profited on a box we bought,found got and then traded it in!!VOOM wants no part of this.

 

[rkr0923]

I too am glad they don't let people use STB's that were bought legally. The more people they piss off the word gets around and the sooner they fold up shop.

 

[1080iBeVuMin]

I too am glad they don't let people use STB's that were bought legally. The more people they piss off the word gets around and the sooner they fold up shop.

You want them to fold?

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

I too am glad they don't let people use STB's that were bought legally. The more people they piss off the word gets around and the sooner they fold up shop.

Yeah, that would make more HDTV readily available. Why, the only reason DirecTV and Dish don't add more HD is because you can get it on Voom.

I would be pretty pissed if I couldn't sell a receiver to another person that I know. I haven't run across that problem yet, but when I do, I will make sure that they get an ear full.