Say GOODBYE to diplexers with the new MPEG-4 Five Lnb AT-9 DirecTV dish

[Mike500]

If you are currently using diplexors for OTA in your DirecTV system, they will no longer work with the new MPEG-4 Five Lnb AT-9 DirecTV dish.

The new wide-band system will include the use of the 250-750 Mhz, 950-1450 Mhz, 1650-2150 Mhz frequency bands.

This means that they will conflict with the UHF broadcast band.

In effect, a separate set of coax lines will be needed for all OTA feeds.

 

[aec4]

Can I use a diplexer for my cable modem? If not, there will not be a 5LNB dish near my house anytime soon. Being near NYC, I don't need it since I get locals in HD. DirecTV is going to have to come up with some incentive if they think I am switching to that dish, putting a new set of holes in my roof, and having to run a new line for my cable modem, just to make them happy. I'll make the switch to digital cable then if that's the case.

 

[sequoiadean]

No more diplexers?

So, that means, if I have a 10-250 HD Tivo in one room now, and upgrade to the new dish and H20 in another room, I'd need THREE coax lines to my HD Tivo, 2 for satellite, and one OTA, instead of having a diplexer at the HD Tivo? Yes, this really sucks, as I still want other OTA stations that aren't available via satellite, and running another coax line to that location would be virtually impossible. If that's true, I'm going to have to cancel my upcoming upgrade.

 

[Mike500]

So, that means, if I have a 10-250 HD Tivo in one room now, and upgrade to the new dish and H20 in another room, I'd need THREE coax lines to my HD Tivo, 2 for satellite, and one OTA, instead of having a diplexer at the HD Tivo? Yes, this really sucks, as I still want other OTA stations that aren't available via satellite, and running another coax line to that location would be virtually impossible. If that's true, I'm going to have to cancel my upcoming upgrade.

Unfortunately, RIGHT!

 

[sequoiadean]

Here's a link to some install videos that also state this.

http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp

 

[tibber]

So, that means, if I have a 10-250 HD Tivo in one room now, and upgrade to the new dish and H20 in another room, I'd need THREE coax lines to my HD Tivo, 2 for satellite, and one OTA, instead of having a diplexer at the HD Tivo? Yes, this really sucks, as I still want other OTA stations that aren't available via satellite, and running another coax line to that location would be virtually impossible. If that's true, I'm going to have to cancel my upcoming upgrade.

Well...there would be away for the short term. I don't know about the expense, but I suspect an inexpensive filter could be found.

The HR10-250 will work with the new dish, just won't pick up the new two sat. So on one of the lines going to the HD tivo, you could filter out the Ka sat signal, diplex in the OTA, and then diplex the OTA back out at the HR10-250. And its possible the diplexor would do the filtering for you.

Remember--the diplex in would be after the multiswitch, not before and not builtin to the multiswitch.

At somepoint, if you ever get rid of the HR10 and replace it with a 5lnb compatible dvr, you'd have to decide if you still want OTA or if D* has all that you want.

Good luck,
Tom

 

[sequoiadean]

Thanks for the suggestion, Tom. I'm still thinking there's really no benefit out of upgrading at this time, if I lose OTA capability on either my HD Tivo, or on the H20. RIght now, I can watch ANY HD OTA channels on either of my HD units (non-Tivo and Tivo), after I upgrade, even if I do as you suggest, I STILL won't be able to watch some HD channels on the H20 (PBS, WB, UPN).

 

[lou_do]

If you are currently using diplexors for OTA in your DirecTV system, they will no longer work with the new MPEG-4 Five Lnb AT-9 DirecTV dish.

The new wide-band system will include the use of the 250-750 Mhz, 950-1450 Mhz, 1650-2150 Mhz frequency bands.

This means that they will conflict with the UHF broadcast band.

In effect, a separate set of coax lines will be needed for all OTA feeds.

Hated seeing this, but glad you posted it. I guess I will have to re-wire my system before they come to do my change over. I know that D* won't be offering the 30 digital and HD channels we now get.

 

[GeorgeLV]

The way I see it DirecTV didn't have too many choices

1) Use the lower frequences so the new signal could be stacked onto standard RG-6, breaking diplexers and annoying a few customers.

2) Tell every customer their homes need to be rewired with RG-11 and lose billions.

3) Increase the complexity of the multiswitch by taking the 13V, 18V, no tone, 22khz tone, scheme to the next level.

Obviously only #1 and #3 are reasonable and I'm sure DirecTV figured that #1 costs a lot less then #3.

 

[tibber]

The way I see it DirecTV didn't have too many choices

1) Use the lower frequences so the new signal could be stacked onto standard RG-6, breaking diplexers and annoying a few customers.

2) Tell every customer their homes need to be rewired with RG-11 and lose billions.

3) Increase the complexity of the multiswitch by taking the 13V, 18V, no tone, 22khz tone, scheme to the next level.

Obviously only #1 and #3 are reasonable and I'm sure DirecTV figured that #1 costs a lot less then #3.

And #3 would require many of us with our cascaded multiswitches indoors to install more coax into the house anyway.

As it is, it will be interesting enough to see how many homes have poor cables that will require re-wire. Because D* has dipped into the UHF frequency range, the 120W transponders are competing with 1GW UHF stations. The installation video tells installers to be very careful with the braid when installing connectors--no fringies.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[lou_do]

As it is, it will be interesting enough to see how many homes have poor cables that will require re-wire.

I am sure there are not to many installations with compression fittings either.

The only thing about a re-wire is the sloppy way the installers run it. I want to do my own wiring, so it will be inside the walls and not through walls and over door casings, like the last time. After they left, I ripped it all out and re-ran it correctly.

 

[Mike500]

As one who does old work in wall fishes, I have long advocated the "open work" method of wiring for pre wires and retrofits. Many here in this and other forums advocated lots of cables and lots of conduits.

So, again, here is the basics of the "open work" wiring method that I've developed.

Run all cables drilled through one inch holes through the top plate or the sill plate centered in the width of the stud and right next to it. If doing new work, use nail on electrical boxes, but cut off the nail holders along with the nails. Cut two 3/8" holes on one side of the box spaced 3 inches apart and 1/2 inch back from the lip. Using a 2 inch hole saw cut 2 inch holes at the top and bottom of the box where the cable entry holes reside. When installing the boxes in new work, drive 1-1/4" dry wall screws through the sides of the plastic boxes into the studs. The reason for this preparation will be clearly seen, if you will ever have to upgrade. Run all of the cables necessary. Apply clips or staples in the attic or in the basement to lightly tension the cables. It is important that the clips or staples are only in areas accessible after the walls and floors are finished. After installing all of the cables, tape the front of the box and all of the cables in place with blue masking tape.

If you never staple the cables onto the studs inside the wall, you will be able to take off the accessable staples and use the existing cables to pull new ones. The side of the studs will also direct push rods and guide any new cables you need to pull.

By preparing the box as stated above, a screwdriver can be used to remove the two dry wall screws holding it to the studs. Since the nail holding protrusions are gone, the box will also come out the front hole in the dry wall without making the hole larger. It can also be easily replaced.

 

[aec4]

This new "change" will cause me to never get the update. No cable modem in my office means no home office means I have to go to the real office every day. Rewiring is not an option as I'm on the complete opposite end of the house, on the 2nd floor.

 

[Maphisto's Sidekick]

This new "change" will cause me to never get the update. No cable modem in my office means no home office means I have to go to the real office every day. Rewiring is not an option as I'm on the complete opposite end of the house, on the 2nd floor.

How important is PQ in the home office?

Maybe this will or won't help you, but I have a similar situation as you, where my home office is on the wrong side of the house from my dish. My better half forbade me from doing the drilling, etc. to run coax to account for this design deficiency. I make do with Leapfrogs to get video to my office. It's not the best picture, and it's subject to interference...but it's good enough for keeping Bloomberg on when I'm working.

It's a shame that the neighbors wouldn't let me cut down their trees that keep me from having the dish on the correct side of the house. Oh well.

 

[little dish guy]

Reading a bunch of posts on other topics it seems that the Ka-Lo output of 250 mhz to 750 mhz may not be used until sometime in 2007. I also read there is a device called a frequency translation module that might replace a mulitswitch, or at least it goes near the dish and does the conversion that a BBC module does. If this is true then you could probably diplex OTA now since the Lo band is not used and in the future if you have the frequency translation module. In either case the 250-750 band is not sent to the receiver. It looks as though you would have to use a diplexer on each down lead at the output of the dish, multiswitch or FTM. This would be a good test for someone with a new system, no?
Bob

 

[tibber]

aec4,

Do you have an attic with access over the 2nd floor? If so, normally its fairly easy for either you or an installer to drop line(s) into a room.

Another possibility, along the lines of SideKick's suggestion is turning the home office into a "mini cable subscriber". I have a modulator that takes 4 S-video feeds and inserts them into a cable or OTA network so that I can watch the SD TiVo, DVD, D10, etc. in other rooms. And it does relay the remote controls back. While I don't suggest you need that much, you might upgrade your system overall and remote a receiver into the office.

And don't forget DSL. I love competition!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[aec4]

How important is PQ in the home office?

Maybe this will or won't help you, but I have a similar situation as you, where my home office is on the wrong side of the house from my dish. My better half forbade me from doing the drilling, etc. to run coax to account for this design deficiency. I make do with Leapfrogs to get video to my office. It's not the best picture, and it's subject to interference...but it's good enough for keeping Bloomberg on when I'm working.

It's a shame that the neighbors wouldn't let me cut down their trees that keep me from having the dish on the correct side of the house. Oh well.

Important. The wife is in here a lot 'working' on her computer and watching TV. I don't need to hear the complaints. I'll switch to Digital Cable before I do.

 

[ocnier]

Option #3 would have been better in the long run, especially considering E*'s DPP+ 44 sw. It's time D* stopped neglecting their installer/engineering department. Oh, well, if they run the cable runs at not cost, then I have no problem.

 

[gchasse]

IF there is indeed a problem with OTA, is the receiver still process the OTA feed? If so, D* is going to have a problem trying to explain this to its customers. I currently have an OTA feed and I get all the stations except for ABC. I have the Samsung TS160, which is known to not lock into the OTA signals well, and I have been thinking that when the new receiver is available here in Jax, to stick with OTA instead of get the locals when they come to town. This affects my thinking. I will have to see how this plays out.

 

[ocnier]

I can tell already that this is gonna be one big kluge in regards to installs (aaaagghh!).