Request for Advice: Which Dish Should Outernet Carry?

[Outernet]

In the coming weeks, Outernet will be making a big announcement (well, big for us). Long story short, it will be a much more interesting service, even for FTA enthusiasts in the US. I say all of this because we will soon be carrying select items to make it easier for our customers to get an Outernet hotspot up and running.

Although we do currently broadcast over 113W, the intended signal for the North American market is 97W. We have been using a Winegard DS2076 and an Azure Shine 90cm without issue (Chicago, Detroit, Boston). But based on the map at Satbeams, 76cm may not be sufficient in many parts of the country.

https://www.satbeams.com/footprints?beam=5786

If we were to carry only one dish, should it be the 76cm Winegard, the 90cm Azure Shine, or the more expensive 1-meter Winegard?

 

[KE4EST]

Syed, I would go with the 90cm Azsure. You are correct that in some cases the 76cm would be too small. Also the 90cm would be easier to align. No need to add cost by going to the 1.0M.

 

[Outernet]

KE4EST I forgot to state this, but you understood it completely: We definitely want to offer the least expensive way for people to experiment. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Kraven]

It would help to post a brief paragraph on what this service is exactly...

 

[Titanium]

While a 76cm dish may have adequate gain, a 90cm dish provides 2 degree compliance to attenuate adjacent satellite interference. The larger dish is not necessary for most KU reception if you are part of a multi-service (MCPC) MUX. The shipping cost DIM is a major jump for a 1m dish.

Also note that manufacturers offer many variations of hardware. Based on the OEM request. Azure Shine manufactures the 90cm as the customer requests. The reflectors may be sourced as great heavy duty products that will be delivered without damage and provide years of reliable service or they can be cheap junk.

Some Azure Shine dishes are quality while others are made with thin gage non-galvanized, lightweight butterfly brackets, single small diameter LNBF arm, soft metal screws, and many choices of posts and clamps.

 

[Outernet]

Kraven Sorry about that, Outernet is a broadcast data service. We take content normally only found on the web and distribute it over satellites. You can see that we have a channel on G19 now, but without our software, you won't be able to receive the DVB-S data stream.

Frequency: 12,177 MHz
Symbolrate: 23,000 kbaud
Polarization: Vertical
Delivery: DVB-S
Constellation: QPSK

This Gizmodo article offers a bit more depth on what we are doing. http://gizmodo.com/what-is-the-outernet-and-is-it-the-future-of-the-intern-1659647614

 

[KE4EST]

Kraven
You can also click on the links below and listen the couple of times that we had Outernet on Satellite Nation and listen to him talk about it.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/satellite-nation-august-20-2014-outernet.340898/
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/thr...ber-12-2014-archive-outernets-lantern.343877/

 

[. Raine]

Are you going to supply dishes to people for free, at cost, or make a profit on them? If for free, or at cost, I'd say the 76 cm, cheapest. If you're going to try and sell it to customers and make a bit of profit, a 90 cm would be more enticing and a better choice. The 1 m probably would be overkill, I think.

Maybe the 76 cm as the normal dish and just supply a 90 cm only in the areas where it's really needed?

My Winegard DS 2076 dish works good here in CT on 97W, right now it's aimed at 87W though, I have a 18''x20'' dish aimed at 97W that gets all I want to receive there for Ku.

Although, thinking on it, the 90 cm might be best in the sense of being easier to setup for people that have never setup a satellite dish before. The 1st dish I ever set up was a 76 cm dish and I had a hell of a time with it, a 90 cm might make it easier to setup for 1st timers, especially assuming no prior experience, no good meter, etc.

 

[Outernet]

Well, we do have payroll to meet, but it's not like there is all that much margin on selling dishes. We'll be selling at not much more than cost. Thanks for the advice on the 90cm. Looks like that's the way we are headed.

 

[dougruss]

When is the Lantern going to start shipping for us, that ordered last year?

 

[Outernet]

We're working on the next iteration of the proto-boards and in the process of selecting a manufacturer (very likely an American manufacturer). We're still targeting the 3rd quarter of this year. We just recently released an update showing one of the key components of the receiver, which is related to L-band reception.

 

[Corrado]

I have installed a few Geosatpro branded black 90cm dishes over the last year or so. All the dishes arrived in perfect condition without damage and assembled quickly. I haven't had to revisit any of them after a terrible Winter here. If these are actually Azure Shine dishes, I say go with them if the price and quality is comparable.

The shipping for a larger dish will double the price.

 

[spongella]

Galaxy 19 Ku at 97W is spaced where other Ku satellites are in close proximity, e.g. 93 - 95 - 97- 99 - 101 W so as Titanium mentioned, a two degree compliance dish would be the best. 90 cm is the way to go. If you will be using other satellites in the future, e.g. 113 W Ku, the 90 cm will work fine for that too.

Also, check out the footprint of the satellite(s) you'll be using to see what type of beam it sends (spot, global, hemispherical), that will give you a general idea of the geographical coverage.

Outernet, will your Outernet receiver function as a signal meter/satellite finder to determine if/when the dish is aimed correctly? That's the part I don't understand. How will it detect 97 W as opposed to the adjacent satellites? Will there be some type of on-screen signal meter to detect the transponder you are transmitting on? If so, some type of audio signal would be of help too, such as a change in tone as the signal quality increases, this way when adjusting the dish the customer does not have to keep an eye on the screen.

 

[Outernet]

It will have a built-in signal meter through the webUI, but it won't differentiate itself between satellites. If there happens to be another channel on the same frequency on 99W, then it will display an inaccurate signal lock. The current signal meter is only visual, but you make a good point about audio, though. I'll add that to the feature list. We should be able to add that in the next release. Really excellent idea; I can't believe we didn't think of that.

 

[Titanium]

Signal ID would be a simple fix as your team are the product engineers. Have the receiver reference both the transponder parameters and your service data table to provide positive ID without false positive from similar transponders.

As a technician for many years, the tone was extremely irritating (especially if you were having problems with the alignment). May I instead suggest that you consider a beep rather than a solid tone? Default on during install, but include off mode switch in the GUI.

No LNBF connection = low solid tone.

LNBF connected with no signal lock = low tone slow beep that reassures that the system is connected and working.

Signal lock = medium tone slow beep that raises in tone / frequency as the signal is optimized.

 

[KE4EST]

As a technician for many years, the tone was extremely irritating (especially if you were having problems with the alignment).

Man I cannot agree with this more, however for someone that does not install 2-4 dishes a day, it may not be so bad; especially if they don't have a display to look at.

No LNBF connection = low solid tone.

LNBF connected with no signal lock = low tone slow beep that reassures that the system is connected and working.

Signal lock = medium tone slow beep that raises in tone / frequency as the signal is optimized.

Great suggestion, not so draining on the ear.

 

[Wescopc]

Go with the 90cm - I would love to have the 1 meter - but shipping!! You need a good 2 degree dish for 97W.
Bob

 

[Titanium]

KE4EST,

To clarify, wasn't suggesting to not have tone. The tone that I was referencing to avoid is the solid squeal in three different tones that are useless to fine tune the dish and reminds me of fingernails dragging across the blackboard!

 

[KE4EST]

Yes I agree and know what you meant.
I did not convey my thoughts properly I guess.........more coffee.

 

[Outernet]

Titanium You're right, we can easily just take the signaling information and incorporate that into the display. Also adding that to the list.

Question: Does anyone have experience with the Fracarro Penta? Any thoughts? It seems like we'll be carrying more than one type of antenna.
http://www.fracarro.com/index.php/en/dj-list/item/21-satellite-dishes/96-penta-85