Problems with subwoofer & New Onkyo TX-SR606

[Dennis Brown]

I hooked up my speakers to my new Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and ran the Audyssey automated setup system the prescribed 3 times. While it did a good job with the surround sound speakers my Klipsch KSW-10 subwoofer sounds distorted. Is the only solution to turn the volume down or do I need to adjust some of the other settings (Phase 0 - 180, Low Pass 40-120, Level 1-11).

Thanks for your help.

Dennis

 

[69Mustang]

Looking to pick up a 606 myself. Still having audio problems? How is the SD DVD upscaling? I heard when connected hdmi in/out it upscales well. True??

 

[Dennis Brown]

True. It's an incredible receiver.

 

[jayn_j]

I hooked up my speakers to my new Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and ran the Audyssey automated setup system the prescribed 3 times. While it did a good job with the surround sound speakers my Klipsch KSW-10 subwoofer sounds distorted. Is the only solution to turn the volume down or do I need to adjust some of the other settings (Phase 0 - 180, Low Pass 40-120, Level 1-11).

Thanks for your help.

Dennis

I believe there is some text in the Onkyo manual that addresses this problem. I believe the solution was to manually turn down the sub volume and re-run. The phase switch is in case you hooked up the wires backward. You generally try flipping the switch and see what is giving the cleaner bass.

The cutoff is something you adjust in conjunction with your amplifier and speaker setup. Is the amp setup to do a cutoff, or are you passing through the full range of spectrum to the sub port. I believe the default is full range. You should set your cutoff frequency to the frequency where your mains are starting to drop off. The Onkyo will let you set a cutoff frequency for the main cutoff. If you have the typical satellites, a good cutoff is generally about 100 Hz and this is where you should set the cutoff for the sub as well.

 

[Dennis Brown]

Thanks for your help. I went into the Onkyo menu and made the following adjustments:

Confirmed that "full band" is the default setting.
Confirmed that the "LPF of LFE" is set at its default of 100hz. I set the low pass on the subwoofer also at 100hz.
I switched the phase to both positions and it didn't seem to make a difference.

In the Onkyo menu I noticed that the "Double Bass" function was set to "on." This boosts bass output by feeding bass sounds from the left, right and center channels to the subwoofer. Do you think this should be turned to "off."?

I believe you also recommended that I turn the volume on the subwoofer lower and run the automatic speaker setup function again. I'll do that in the morning.

Aloha from the Big Island,

Dennis

 

[jayn_j]

The manual says "This setting can only be set if the subwoofer enable is set to "yes" and the front setting is set to "full band". It also says this is not set by the automatic levelling (audessey). They say the double bass is useful when you have a subwoofer AND full range fronts.

This works for me as I am running Klipsch KG5's for mains. They have a 12" passive driver and an active 8" hard cone woofer. The bass is good, but not punchy. I enhance it with a Velodyne SPL12 sub. I actually have the double bass feature turned off and the front crossover freq set to 80 Hz. I have the crossover on my sub set to 100 Hz, giving just a bit of overlap.

Again, I don't know what you are running for main speakers, but if they are the typical satellites, you might want to set the settings in 2."Speaker Config" to a higher crossover frequency (100 Haz) and let the sub handle all the bass. This is explained in Advanced Setup/Speaker Setup which is on page 70 of my 605 manual.

The next reference comes from 'First time setup/Automatic speaker setup'. Right at the end (page 45 of the 605 manual) is a paragraph on using a powered subwoofer. It contains a bunch of weasel words about adjusting crossover frequency to full range or using the direct position to disable the low pass filter. It also says to have the level set to a point where the speaker can be detected, but not so high that it distorts.

That isn't where you are going to use the thing, so I am not sure what they are trying to accomplish here. Time for a confession. I did what they said, and then went and manually tweeked the sub to get it to a point where I was satisfied. All the adjustments I made were on the sub itself. Hey, its a tool, and you are the one who needs to be happy with the results.

I also made minor adjustments to the main and surrounds as well. I think the audessey setup gives you a good starting point, but the results aren't going to be perfect. I found the center volume to be a little low for good dialog. I also found the surround volume to be way too low for my tastes. I like having the starship sweep out of the rear channel and the audessey setup just gave ambience instead of an experience. The audessey setup did do a good job of setting delay and in getting relative levels correct in the left and right channels.

Good luck. I hope this helps, and let us know how tomorrow's experiments turn out.

 

[Dennis Brown]

I've been playing with the settings all morning.

1. Turning the double bass function "off" improved the performance of the subwoofer;
2. Changing the x-over settings didn't seem to have any effect. So I left them at 100hz on both the receiver and the subwoofer;
3. Played around with the volume levels-anything less than level 10 seems to eliminate the bass entirely--Level 11 REALLY distorts;
4. I followed your lead and raised the volume on the center and the surrounds.

I think it's probably as good as it gets.

Thanks so much for your help. You've taught me a lot.

Aloha and Mahalo from the Big Island,

Dennis

 

[Jim S.]

I also made minor adjustments to the main and surrounds as well. I think the audessey setup gives you a good starting point, but the results aren't going to be perfect. I found the center volume to be a little low for good dialog. I also found the surround volume to be way too low for my tastes. I like having the starship sweep out of the rear channel and the audessey setup just gave ambience instead of an experience.

Audyssey always sets my center too low for movies. At least 3dB too low. Sometimes it's even too low for TV shows, but not nearly as much as theatrical movies. They must assume that everybody has a massve room and will be listening to movies at theatrical volume -- which to me simply isn't comfortable even if I didn't have to worry about disturbing anyone else. I've set the center permanently higher, as high as I can without making it too unnatural for music listening, but still have to bump it up a little more for certain movies with particularly large dynamic range. What really irks me is that I have both Dynamic EQ and Cinema Filter on, so there really shouldn't be an issue. In fact, dialog works better with Dynamic EQ off, but if I didn't want to hear the full dynamic range I wouldn't have bought a new receiver and new speakers!

 

[Cranky69]

First of all, I just would like say I'm sorry for the noobness of my question but I am in the dark when it comes setting up my bass frequencies. This is my setup:

My room size is 19'x13' ( I normally sit at the far rear of the room)

Receiver" Onkyo TX-SR606

Speakers: 5.1 setup with Energy Take Sat Bookshelf speakers, and an Energy S8.3 Subwoofer.(the subwoofer is setup to the far right of the receiver, and right of the front right speaker.

I used the automatic setup feature(using the microphone), and it all went well. I have my subwoofer setup with the crossover to 110hz, the phase control setup to 0 degrees. Now while everything sounds fine, I wanted to know if there was anything I could do to fine tune it.

Thank you in advance for any tips or links.

 

[jayn_j]

First of all, I just would like say I'm sorry for the noobness of my question but I am in the dark when it comes setting up my bass frequencies. This is my setup:

My room size is 19'x13' ( I normally sit at the far rear of the room)

Receiver" Onkyo TX-SR606

Speakers: 5.1 setup with Energy Take Sat Bookshelf speakers, and an Energy S8.3 Subwoofer.(the subwoofer is setup to the far right of the receiver, and right of the front right speaker.

I used the automatic setup feature(using the microphone), and it all went well. I have my subwoofer setup with the crossover to 110hz, the phase control setup to 0 degrees. Now while everything sounds fine, I wanted to know if there was anything I could do to fine tune it.

Thank you in advance for any tips or links.

Not a noob question at all. Those who tell you they have the answers are either lying or unwilling to look beyond their own setups. This is an art, not a science.

You are looking to find the setup which produces the cleanest bass at your location. Bass frequencies have long wavelengths, and thus room position can make a big difference, especially when reflections are taken into account.

The math: sound travels at (more or less) 1100 ft/sec. A 100 Hz signal has a wavelength of (1100 ft/sec) / (100 cycles/sec) = 11 ft/cycle. 1/2 wavelength is 6.5 ft, and a half wavelength difference in signal path is where you will get cancellation. Thus, subs should not be about 6 feet from any wall if possible.

The problem is that rooms are not featureless cubes. You have reflections off of furniture, rear walls, the other side wall, etc. It is difficult to predict where the best place to mount a sub without experimentation.

All that was basically to say try moving the sub around the room and see what sounds best. Also, try the 180 degree phase adjustment and see if it sounds better when used with your main speakers. That adjustment is there to help and it may sound better 180 degrees out of phase.

If you look around this forum, you will see threads about increasing or decreasing reflections by use of either ceramic or carpet tiles. Most have used these under downfiring subs, but the principle is the same. If you read the home theater setup books, many tell you to try and place absorbent material on the side walls halfway between you and the speakers. This will lower side reflections.

Those really are my best first level suggestions. Move the sub around a bit and see what sounds better. Try the phase switch. Try adjusting the reflections in your room. Oh, and be happy with what you come up with as there is no perfect answer.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Not a noob question at all. Those who tell you they have the answers are either lying or unwilling to look beyond their own setups. This is an art, not a science.

You are looking to find the setup which produces the cleanest bass at your location. Bass frequencies have long wavelengths, and thus room position can make a big difference, especially when reflections are taken into account.

The math: sound travels at (more or less) 1100 ft/sec. A 100 Hz signal has a wavelength of (1100 ft/sec) / (100 cycles/sec) = 11 ft/cycle. 1/2 wavelength is 6.5 ft, and a half wavelength difference in signal path is where you will get cancellation. Thus, subs should not be about 6 feet from any wall if possible.

The problem is that rooms are not featureless cubes. You have reflections off of furniture, rear walls, the other side wall, etc. It is difficult to predict where the best place to mount a sub without experimentation.

All that was basically to say try moving the sub around the room and see what sounds best. Also, try the 180 degree phase adjustment and see if it sounds better when used with your main speakers. That adjustment is there to help and it may sound better 180 degrees out of phase.

If you look around this forum, you will see threads about increasing or decreasing reflections by use of either ceramic or carpet tiles. Most have used these under downfiring subs, but the principle is the same. If you read the home theater setup books, many tell you to try and place absorbent material on the side walls halfway between you and the speakers. This will lower side reflections.

Those really are my best first level suggestions. Move the sub around a bit and see what sounds better. Try the phase switch. Try adjusting the reflections in your room. Oh, and be happy with what you come up with as there is no perfect answer.

Maybe you got that one backwards. Kind of funny you would back that statement up with a whole lot of "science". Set-up is science.

 

[Cranky69]

Thank you for the detailed response, I will go ahead, and try your suggestions.

 

[jayn_j]

Maybe you got that one backwards. Kind of funny you would back that statement up with a whole lot of "science". Set-up is science.

I can make a case for art being science where there are simply too many independent variables to be able to do a full analysis.

I gave my opinion, and labeled it as such. You are perfectly free to give your own opinion. Calling my comments "science" with the quotes really isn't productive. Care to tell me where I deviated from the teachings of the one true audio God?

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Explain to me how this is "Art". Like I said , you quote "science" in your reply. Don't call this unproductive, I'm trying to understand your semantics. Also, and this is not clear in your explanation, putting absorbing materials at the site of first reflection is for taming high frequency response, resulting in clearer imaging, and eliminating the confusion from the trailing signal that arrives at your ears slightly after. This will not help with bass frequencies.

Not looking to argue or confuse anybody. Just looking for some clarification of what you are saying.

 

[8bitbytes]

Here is a link that has more info about setting up subs than anywhere else I have ever seen:
Setting Up Your SubWoofer 101 - AVS Forum

As far as this being an ART, here is my take (I know, who asked me!)

The science is in the analysis and calibration of sound frequencies in your room.

The art is in getting those frequencies to sound the way YOU want them to in a way that pleases you.

You would be surprised how far off science can be from personal taste.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Acceptable explanation. I'll continue to use science to give me accurate placement. I've heard a lot of nice speakers that sounded terrible because people placed them wrong. Science will give you a good starting point. Art will help you fine tune the placement for maximum satisfaction. Does that satisfy everyone?

 

[8bitbytes]

Acceptable explanation. I'll continue to use science to give me accurate placement. I've heard a lot of nice speakers that sounded terrible because people placed them wrong. Science will give you a good starting point. Art will help you fine tune the placement for maximum satisfaction. Does that satisfy everyone?

Sounds good to me! (pardon the pun)

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Sounds good to me! (pardon the pun)

I'd like to think we dispense "sound advice" around here.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.