PQ on HDTV with non HDTV programming

[bthom70]

Here's the story. I want to purchase a new HDTV crt TV mainly to stay ahead of the hardware and cuz there are not enough Dish HD channels to fully switch over to full Dish HD.
I've been looking at Zenith C32V36 and C32V37 and Toshiba 32HF73.
Can anyone tell me how non-HD programming looks on a HD TV? Is it pixleated and lots of artifacts? The Zenith allows for native 480i and 480p, 720p and 1080i and 1080p mode. With 480 its basically an analog set.
I.ve been to avsforums.com but there arent many Dish or DirectTV people buying HDTV sets, only lots of Comcast cable people who love their digital cable with their HDTV's with non-HD channels.
At ths point replacing my aging analog 27" Toshiba with another analog set doesnt make sense.

Brian

 

[Enforcer]

As far as PQ for non-HD for dish I believe is quite good. I did a little test this evening comparing regular cable and dish. I switched back and forth on the inputs and Dish's pq on all the channels I tested FAR exceeds regular cable. Ive been with dish almost a year now, and after seeing this difference I will never go back to cable, simply because I am so use to the excellent digital quality that satellite provides. Yes, some channels will look better than other simply for the overcompression that dish uses. However, I am very pleased with the PQ for the non-HD channels. I am sure there will be people who may say otherwise, but I am more than happy with the pq dish offers. The size of the tv will also make somewhat of a difference. I have a 52'' widescreen and I still enjoy the picture. My 26'' Samsung HDTV in my bedroom has stunning picture on all channels. Hope this information helps you. Have a good day.

 

[bthom70]

Thanks, we're have Dish since Dec 2001 and wont ever go back to cable.
Though my only beef with Dish is I am unable to get my local channels.
I've posted about this before and as Scott says, Dish puts everyone in our county as NYC area. and they all get NYC locals. I live at the furthest edge of the county and Hartford is closer to me as the crow flies, not NYC.
But hopefully the FCC and the Neilsen rating scam will get off their fat lazy ass and correct this. Give the subscribers what they want and not what some suit tells them they want. MORE $$$$$$.

off my soap box.

I;ve got $$ burning a whole in my pocket about this HD TV purchase, and I hate having buyers remorse especially something in the $900-$1000 range.
All I want is the best equipment I can afford and that can give me a fairly large buffer for future technology changes.
Dish has been great and TV;s are getting better. but HD wont be here fully for a few more years. So we are all stuck in a mixed Analog/HD signal world. Reminds me of the Beta and VHS wars of the early 80's

 

[Enforcer]

The reason i stuck with Dish is because I personally have had wonderful service. Dish's HD is great, but the lack of channels such as TNT-HD or others would be nice. I remember how it was great when this board was overflowing with talk about ESPN-HD before they launched it. I wish Dish would create this sort of stir up so we can at least have that same "rush" if you will as it did with ESPN and the HD pack. I have spoken with people who have Bravo-HD and they tell me it's really not worth it. West Wing would be nice in HD, but I personally would rather wait and save the bandwith for other channels, like cinemax HD and TNT.

 

[GaryPen]

bthom - When you say CRT TV, I assume you mean direct-view glass tube, not rear projection. If so, I'd suggest either the 30in or 34in Sony HS510. It is by far the best consumer mid-size direct-view HDTV I've viewed, except for Sony's own XBR series.

I was originally thinking of saving a few bucks with a Philips or Samsung. I'm glad I didn't.

 

[Grandude]

Here's the story. I want to purchase a new HDTV crt TV mainly to stay ahead of the hardware and cuz there are not enough Dish HD channels to fully switch over to full Dish HD.
I've been looking at Zenith C32V36 and C32V37 and Toshiba 32HF73.
Brian

I bought a Toshiba 32in and it has excellant picture on SD from Dish. I have heard that Zenith also makes excellant HD tvs.
After finally getting a HD tuner, 6000 and then an 811) I began to wish that I had gotten a 16x9 34inch instead of the 4x3 32inch.
Those glass tube TVs are HEAVY. I now have a Samsung 46in DLP (great) and have moved the Toshiba into the bedroom.
I know, I know, television will never replace sex, but in High Definition it comes close.
Forgot to mention, no pixilation or artifacts in SD.

 

[peallen]

Well I have the Philips 34PW850H and have been EXTREMELY satisfied.

 

[freemen]

Extreme Tech

You might want to go Extreme Tech put out by PC magazine on the internet. They have had several articles re HDTV, including all the tech stuff you would want to know and did a series of article on buying an HDTV last year. Just search on HDTV.

 

[hffernandez]

Hey Bthom70
Sony KV34XBR910 is the ticket. Check out the ratings for this set, you won't be dissappointed. There selling for $2500 but one would be able to get a nice price around June time frame when the new model hits the shelves. It's a heavy one tho but once you see the HD (Dish) quality it will blow you away as it did me.

 

[BarryO]

It depends entirely on how close you sit.

For SD pictures, people tend to sit at a distance ~7x the picture height from the screen. At this distance, DBS such as Dish will look OK: not great, but acceptable.

This is too far away for HDTV. At this distance, your eyes can't see much of the detail in an HDTV picture, so why bother? HDTV was designed to be viewed at about 3x the picture height distance, in order to give a "cinematic" experience.

At this distance, Dish SD pictures will look awful. Even at the 5x distance appropriate for DVD's, the local channels will look pretty bad; they put 12 channels on each transponder. I've noticed the "low-priority" channels, little-watched I guess, like DIY are about the same. The premium movie channels look OK.

Again, it comes down to how close you sit to the TV, in relation to the size of the screen.

 

[mboy]

I have a 2 year old Samsung 32" 4:# HDTV and LUV it. Only wish I had room for bigger.

 

[DarrellP]

Like BarryO says, if you like to sit in the next room to watch Dish SD, they look OK. I have a projector and dropped Dish SD 6 months ago because it looks so fuzzy, even the Premium channels.

If you want SD that looks good on a HDTV, get Voom, their SD is much better than Dish.

 

[Tahoerob]

I am using a Sony 50in Grand Wega LCD RPTV.
My SD looks very good. BETTER than cable ever did with a non-HD CRT.
It is even better now with my 921 compared to the 501.
The 921 is using component cables & "upconverts" the 480i to pseudo-1080i. IT looks good. The STB makes a difference. With a 811 or 921 HD boxes, the SD will look better than with a 501 or 301.
FYI: The LCD PRTV automatically progressive scans 480i to 480p
Also, if you view SD via component, your TV may scan it to 480p. Ask or check the manuals.

 

[waltinvt]

I am using a Sony 50in Grand Wega LCD RPTV.
My SD looks very good. BETTER than cable ever did with a non-HD CRT.
It is even better now with my 921 compared to the 501.
The 921 is using component cables & "upconverts" the 480i to pseudo-1080i. IT looks good. The STB makes a difference. With a 811 or 921 HD boxes, the SD will look better than with a 501 or 301.
FYI: The LCD PRTV automatically progressive scans 480i to 480p
Also, if you view SD via component, your TV may scan it to 480p. Ask or check the manuals.

SD PQ on my HDTV:
It has never looked good from my 811 (DVI connection), even after the 264 / 265 upgrades but has always looked great from my 508 (S-Video connection).

As has always been with Dish, some channels look better than others but the 508 definitly provides a far better picture than the 811 plus the 508 is a much better receiver (especially the guide) - add the PVR functions and it's a no brainer.
In my opinion, the 811 is yet to be good for anything except HD. In fact, Dish should be advising anyone getting an 811 that they should use it in conjunction with a regular receiver until the 811 gets straightened out.
WaltinVt

 

[GaryPen]

With a 811 or 921 HD boxes, the SD will look better than with a 501 or 301.

Not true. I have an 811 and a 510, both connected to a Sony HS510 HDTV. SD usually looks better from the 510. (sharper, brighter, and more vivid with color.) However, with the horribly over-compressed signals, such as locals, the softer image of the 811 looks better.

The 811 is connected via DVI using the 811's upconvert to 1080i, and formatting to 16:9 with 811's "partial zoom" setting. (The Sony doesn't allow re-formatting of 1080i signal via DVI.)

The 510 is connected via S-video, and formatting to 16:9 using Sony's "Wide Zoom" setting.

 

[GaryPen]

SD PQ on my HDTV:
In my opinion, the 811 is yet to be good for anything except HD. In fact, Dish should be advising anyone getting an 811 that they should use it in conjunction with a regular receiver until the 811 gets straightened out.
WaltinVt

That's exactly how I use it now. I have a 510 next to the 811, and only switch to the 811 for HD, or if I want to watch something other than what I am recording.

 

[waltinvt]

How many 811 owners use another receiver for SD ?

That's exactly how I use it now. I have a 510 next to the 811, and only switch to the 811 for HD, or if I want to watch something other than what I am recording.

I'd like to see a poll of 811 users to see just how many use another Dish receiver for their SD programming. My guess is at least half.

If Dish was smart (I know, I know), they'd provide a free receiver to anyone stuck with only an 811 and waive the additional receiver fee to all customers in this situation until the 811 problems are fixed.

If I had to rely on just an 811, I'd be hopping up & down to Dish everyday. It reminds me too much of the Dishplayer fiasco and if Dish learned anything at all from that, it's to quietly appease everyone involved before they start looking for greener pastures. I know with my DP situation, I'd finally had it and actually called Dish to cancel everything. They had someone out the next morning installing a free 501.
WaltinVt

 

[peallen]

I tried using my 508 with my HD set and to be honest it looked REAL crappy, tried RCA, S-Video and it didn't matter. So I use the 811 for everything on my HD set and like I stated above, it looks great, my SD content looks way better than it did with my 508. We moved the 508 to our back bedroom and cancelled our 301 until a later date.

From reading things here I must have gotten the only good 811, the only issue I have is with the guide.

 

[A_Pac]

if u want the best 16:9 crt is it the sony 34xbr910
however the xbr960 should be out within month

 

[DarrellP]

There you have it, folks, living proof that the scaler in a Sony HS510 is better than the scaler in a Dish STB, but we already knew that, didn't we?