Poor Man's HtoH

[mastermesh]

Read about this a while back but am having trouble finding in search. Anyone done this with a primestar dish yet? Any tips? I'm thinking about possibly doing a setup like that to have a stationary dish on 30w. I've read that you have to skew entire primestar dish to get stuff that far on edge of the arc... if you are in a poor man's htoh you wouldn't have that problem, would you since it skews automatically like the sg2100 does if going expensive mans htoh...? What's the best way to stabilize your pole at something like a 45 degree angle (I'm in Mid-Missouri so I think we are at 45 elevation on a normal dish setup)...

The roof mount that I got from Soudon a while back has a tilter thingy on the bottom... would that be the best type of mount to try to get the pole itself to tilt at 45 degrees? How would you keep gravity from making the thing go more or less than 45 degrees? I had to put extra stabilizing wires on my roof mount to keep it plumb. If you are at that much of an angle, I can only imagine the mess of stabilizing wires you'd have to put on...

 

[qwert1515]

This was posted by PSB at the Visionplus forum,

Making your own poor mans H to H mount is easy.......
There will be no need for skewing the LNB as the whole dish skews
itself exactly with the satellite in the sky, expect better signals as the
whole dish will collect the signal!

By off setting your mast to the same angle as your latitude you can then
rotate the dish until you land on the satellite! I use a cheap satellite beeper
to get on the Clake Belt by raising or lowering the dish elevation only, if set
up on your true south satellite it will perfectly follow the Clake Belt.

There are images at the Visionplus forum, but you must be a member there to see the thread.

Poor mans H to H mount

 

[Anole]

I've seen the idea discussed on this forum before.
I just did a search and didn't find anything useful - was looking for the pictures.
It was probably PBS who was the big proponent.
Isn't he also the guy who likes to mount his dishes upside down, too?

Maybe later, I'll try searching out the many threads he wrote looking for the pictures.

The basic theory was to place your pole (which you rotate the dish around) parallel to the earth's axis of rotation.
So, if you were 35º N, the pole would be tilted with the top to the North at 90-35=55º (where 0º is up)
And of course, if you were located at 55º N, then your pole would be at 90-55=35º

Of course, the declination would need to be taken into consideration, but let's get back to that later.

What comes to mind, is that this would work great for a prime-feed dish.
But for an offset feed dish like the Primestar, you'd need to add in around 22º of down-tilt to the dish to accommodate the fact that the dish looks up.
Is that why PBS was always mounting them upside down?
Does the geometry of the mount then let you tilt the dish up 22º more easily?

I need pictures!
Where are those pictures?

 

[Wescopc]

Here are pictures of a primestar poor man's H to H by PSB:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/305225-post76.html
Bob

 

[qwert1515]

PSB's Poormans H to H _Mount

 

[WyrTwister]

I've seen the idea discussed on this forum before.
I just did a search and didn't find anything useful - was looking for the pictures.
It was probably PBS who was the big proponent.
Isn't he also the guy who likes to mount his dishes upside down, too?

Maybe later, I'll try searching out the many threads he wrote looking for the pictures.

The basic theory was to place your pole (which you rotate the dish around) parallel to the earth's axis of rotation.
So, if you were 35º N, the pole would be tilted with the top to the North at 90-35=55º (where 0º is up)
And of course, if you were located at 55º N, then your pole would be at 90-55=35º

Of course, the declination would need to be taken into consideration, but let's get back to that later.

What comes to mind, is that this would work great for a prime-feed dish.
But for an offset feed dish like the Primestar, you'd need to add in around 22º of down-tilt to the dish to accommodate the fact that the dish looks up.
Is that why PBS was always mounting them upside down?
Does the geometry of the mount then let you tilt the dish up 22º more easily?

I need pictures!
Where are those pictures?

My understanding is you put a bend in the pole equal to your latitude ?

Wyr

 

[Wescopc]

My understanding is you put a bend in the pole equal to your latitude ?

Wyr

Just use a standard "J" mast (it is bent 45°) and set the top portion to your latitude.
Bob

 

[linuxman]

Just wanted to jump in here for a minute.

I have a motorized mount with a Primestar 84e pointed at Hispasat on my family setup with the motor disconnected which is essentially a Poor Man's H-H mount at the present.

I have also had recently an 84e set on Hispasat with just the LNB skewed.

Right now, I have the 1M Primestar pointed at Hispasat with just the LNB skewed.

There is very little difference in the SQ between the two.

I was going to make one of those things, but never got around to it. After looking at the difference in signal, I am glad I didn't take the time.

The main thing is to hand tune the skew after fine tuning the satellite you are trying to hit.

Just my opinion.

Fred

 

[Anole]

The main thing is to hand tune the skew after fine tuning the satellite you are trying to hit.

Well, if you are trying to move an az/el dish between birds, you have three adjustments to co-ordinate.
The whole idea of the Poor Man's H to H, is that you now have only one thing to move (and the skew takes care of itself).

I wouldn't have thought it was a significant performance enhancement.
Just a matter of ease-of-use (once set up).

So, if you just want to park on one bird... and maybe later park on another, the simple way is to tweak all three parameters - once.
But, if you want to spend a few hours, a day, or even a week on one bird, then move painless over to another, the Poor Man bent pole is real easy to set up.
I'd think anyone having been through that setup and tuning, would be able to graduate to a motor with no problem.

 

[linuxman]

I wouldn't have thought it was a significant performance enhancement.
Just a matter of ease-of-use (once set up).

I think you are correct, if you are planning on moving the dish from satellite to satellite, but if just going to park on one bird and not move it, just put it up and be done.

And you are right about graduating from the H-H mount to a motor. Really easy after you have gone through the H-H setup.

Fred

 

[jayelem]

I have never tried an upside down dish , but I have tinkered with the Poor Mans H-H mount hooked up to a chirping analog signal meter and what I like most is how accurately you can track the Clarke Belt if your mast is at the correct angle.

My tinkering lasted a day because I had no LOS for Hispasat , so I ended up going to higher ground on a plumb mast.

When I made my Poor Mans H to H mount, this is what I did.

I used my motorized dish as a reference by using a magnetic angle finder on the LNB holder Arm while it was pointed to true south satellite .

Now with my numbers from the angle finder on the LNB ARM I duplicated that angle by tilting the mast on the Poor Mans H-H and then tightening bolt.

Made fine adjustments and hit all my sats within my LOS.

I would like to try the upside down dish just to see how the dish perspective angle changes.

 

[Anole]

I would like to try the upside down dish just to see how the dish perspective angle changes.

The following two pictures are from a couple of postings by PSB (got it spelled right this time)

In the first, note how far down you have to adjust the mount to take out the 22º up-look the antenna has.

This picture shows the dish inverted.
Note that it's well off due south.
It's actually pointed quite -east-.
(the tip of the pole points northward)
But, note how the mount has plenty of adjustment in it to dial out the 22º degrees the dish has in it.

This side-view really shows it better:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=11146&d=1156558263

I think the reverse mounting is more of a convenience.
... and a good bragging point.

 

[Vacosta]

Pete (PSB) helped me understand the Poor Man's H-H in this other thread. Same pics as the thread from above. Hopefully this link works;

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/77348-dish-when-its-extremes.html