Picture quality

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Getut

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Original poster
Aug 9, 2004
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Hello,

New member here with some questions. I was a Dish Network customer way back and went back to cable because of picture quality issues. We just moved and went back to Dish. I had heard nothing but good about picture quality and figured that the technology had advanced.

I got my DVR 522 the other day and am impressed with its capability, but am still turned off by the picture quality. I am getting nearly 100% signal strength. The picture is "cleaner" than cable (example: 100% snow free and no ghosted images), but I find that the overall experience is for me still much worse. I cannot get past blockiness and artifacting from the compression. Heavy banding in dark areas coming from dithering is still horrible compared to good old analog cable television. I'm sorry if this provokes someone to flame me, but how in the world can anyone think this is "better" picture quality? I wish I had options.

Getut
 
Getut said:
Hello,

New member here with some questions. I was a Dish Network customer way back and went back to cable because of picture quality issues. We just moved and went back to Dish. I had heard nothing but good about picture quality and figured that the technology had advanced.

I got my DVR 522 the other day and am impressed with its capability, but am still turned off by the picture quality. I am getting nearly 100% signal strength. The picture is "cleaner" than cable (example: 100% snow free and no ghosted images), but I find that the overall experience is for me still much worse. I cannot get past blockiness and artifacting from the compression. Heavy banding in dark areas coming from dithering is still horrible compared to good old analog cable television. I'm sorry if this provokes someone to flame me, but how in the world can anyone think this is "better" picture quality? I wish I had options.

Getut
Click to expand...

Some people are more sensitive to digital compression artifacts than others. While I certainly wish E* and D* didn't compress the signal so much I personally find it much less objectionable than the ghosting and video noise present in many analog signals. The best analog picture is C-Band on a BUD, but that is dying as more and more BUD users switch to DBS. I guess you have to pick your poison, it's not likely to change in the near future. ;)

NightRyder
 
I'm with you - the picture on Dish is almost uniformly bad. The Superstations and Sci-Fi are by far the worst (just try to watch a scene with smoke or fog and not have your eyes water from the strain), but even the HBO and Showtime channels have gone down hill. I watched Star Trek: Nemesis last night and the picture was so awful it was laughable (well, I guess it’s not actually funny: I’m paying $70 a month, or whatever it is, for this lousy picture).

But then, I live out in the middle of nowhere – no cable, no OTA – so my options are limited. No one has made a “compelling” argument that D* would be any better, so I live with it. At least HD is flawless. Oh wait, that’s right…
 
Dish's PQ used to be great before the Must Carry laws. When dish had to carry ever single station in order to carry a DMA, they had to pile on hundreds of low rated channels and the PQ went through the floor. Its never been the same since.
 
About a month ago, I, and others, noticed a big improvement in Dish PQ. The locals moved up in PQ to that of the standard channels. The standard channels were looking like premiums. And, TVJapan, looked spectacular. It reminded me of the good ole days, before Dish added a bazzilion locals forcing the over-compression. (It ain't "must-carry". It's Dish's obsession with adding locals for every hick town in the US.)

However, for about a week now, it seems to have reverted back to its usual fuzziness. Locals, as before, look especially bad. Dish was being a PQ tease.
 
Well everyone make sure to call in and complain about it next time Charles is on!
 
Poke said:
Well everyone make sure to call in and complain about it next time Charles is on!
Click to expand...

Won't do any good. :(

1. They won't acknowledge it. They have "Digital Quality"

2. The solution is to remove channels - Given the choice most subscribers will choose more channels over picture quality every time.

NightRyder
 
We have six receivers (one 301 and the rest pvr/dvr) and the picture quality on all of them is great. The only time I have noticed any pixelating is during Laker games in the past on KCAL, local channel 9 out of Los Angeles. So, I can see how it can be annoying. Maybe I just don't watch the channels that have the bad picture quality. I don't watch the superstations (except for KTLA in the L.A. locals package without any problems) or Sci-Fi channel. I do watch all the other L.A. local networks and the premium movie channels and they seem fine.
 
When Will the DTV Transition Be Complete?

As of May 2003, more than 1,000 stations were on the air with DTV signals, and every major TV market was served by at least one DTV station. The target date set by Congress for the completion of the transition to DTV is December 31, 2006. However, that date may be extended until most homes (85%) in an area are able to watch the DTV programming. At that point, broadcasting on the analog channels will end and that spectrum will be put to other uses. Until the transition to DTV is completed, television stations are required to broadcast on both their digital and analog channels.

Guess we will see what happens then with the PQ!
 
gary s said:
We have six receivers (one 301 and the rest pvr/dvr) and the picture quality on all of them is great. The only time I have noticed any pixelating is during Laker games in the past on KCAL, local channel 9 out of Los Angeles. So, I can see how it can be annoying. Maybe I just don't watch the channels that have the bad picture quality. I don't watch the superstations (except for KTLA in the L.A. locals package without any problems) or Sci-Fi channel. I do watch all the other L.A. local networks and the premium movie channels and they seem fine.
Click to expand...

A lot depends on screen size. The artifacts most are talking about are more subtle than outright pixelization. The larger the screen, the more obvious they are. What looks fine on a 32" set may not on a 50" one. Also, going from watching HD on a large screen set to watching Dish SD can be quite jarring, makes me think I forgot to put on my glasses. :D


NightRyder
 
Poke said:
More good info!

http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/
Click to expand...


:confused: :confused: :confused: Don't see anything about PQ.

Division Information

The primary mission of the Satellite Division is to serve U.S. consumers by promoting a competitive and innovative domestic and global telecommunications marketplace. The Division strives to achieve this goal by: (1) authorizing as many satellite systems as possible and as quickly as possible to facilitate deployment of satellite services; (2) minimizing regulation and maximizing flexibility for satellite telecommunications providers to meet customer needs; and (3) fostering efficient use of the radio frequency spectrum and orbital resources. The Division also provides expertise about the commercial satellite industry in the domestic spectrum management process and advocates U.S. satellite radiocommunication interests in international coordinations and negotiations.


NightRyder
 
Yeah my main point is that if folks file complaints with FCC that Dish might not listen to us but they will them!
 
Poke said:
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html Well if they say your PQ is better due to its post to be a so called "True Digital Signal" then to me thats kinda miss leading! You should not take a performance hit going from analog cable to Sat!
Click to expand...

The term they use is "All Digital Quality" which means/guarantees nothing. It's just good old American marketing BS. Buzzwords that mean nothing and have no legal guarantees attached to them.

I'm not trying to pick on you, or defend E* or D*, but there is nothing the FCC can/will do about this.


NightRyder
 
NightRyder said:
A lot depends on screen size. The artifacts most are talking about are more subtle than outright pixelization. The larger the screen, the more obvious they are. What looks fine on a 32" set may not on a 50" one. Also, going from watching HD on a large screen set to watching Dish SD can be quite jarring, makes me think I forgot to put on my glasses. :D


NightRyder
Click to expand...

That's probably why we don't notice PQ problems with ours. All our screens are 27" or smaller.
 
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