Pansat 2700a issues

[Duke Pittsburgh]

Hello gang!

I have a couple questions to throw out there...I'm hoping some of you can help me get my FTA set up working.

Some of you have helped me before, to get the right components in place to pick up some FTA signals at my camp in north-central Pennsylvania.

I have a 33" dish with a universal LNB, 12' of tri-shield RG6 with compression fittings going to a Pansat 2700a (non-clone). I have installed the factory file with the b-7-5 upgrade. Using the most intelligent pointing skills I have, plus the assistance of the google earth printouts from Dishpointer and the Satfinder AP app on my wife's smartphone! Still getting good signal (75+% ) and no quality. Tried about 5 different birds, between about 79w and 91w and could not get a blip on the quality meter. Have a clear view of the sky and adjusted the height, asmuth and skew to the best of my ability and got nothing. When I first bought the camp, there was an 18" DN500 there and I hooked toe FTA box up and got ION TV for a while, till it went encrypted, so I know the box works. The only thing abnormal I noticed was the names of the birds listed in the Pansat satellite list...none even sounded familiar. Not to sound like an idiot, but they sounded...well...OLD. Like, since it is such an old box, those sat's are not there anymore. I don't know if there is a new file I need to load in the box, or a major oversight with the box I am missing. Any ideas are greatly appreciated! Thanks.

 

[hwm]

You're right, the satellite list in your Pansat is outdated.

I would suggest you choose a Ku satellite by orbital position rather than name. Example: 101w instead of amc4 or the new ses1 that is at the same 101west orbital position. Then find a currently active transponder in the list for that satellite position. You may need to add a new transponder to the list in your receiver.

Consult the "sticky" thread on this site "I need a strong transponder to aim my dish" for the transponder settings you will need.

Everything needs to be setup exactly correct in your receiver menu choices to get signal quality.

Hopefully someone with a similar Pansat model will respond and walk you through it.

 

[FaT Air]

<<have a 33" dish with a universal LNB,>> make sure the LNB settings, in the receiver, match your lnb. I always remove all the "wrong" transponders and add some from TheList, then scan in all the rest on the satellites. Sat naming suggestion: 103W AMC1; 97W G19. (the W could be dropped) Satellite names change, the positions don't. I don't see a FW download for it, but the manual is available at PANAREX (If that helps??)

 

[Mr Tony]

That list will probably have some oldies but goodies....lemme try and remember some (my old Pansat 1500 is same way)

SBS6 is now H2 74W
AMC5 79W
AMC9 83W
nothing in there for 85W
AMC3 87W
Could be T4 or IA8...now G28 89W
G11 is now G17 91W
T6 is G25 93W
G3C 95W
T5 97W
G4 is now G16 99W
AMC4 is now SES1 101W
AMC1 103W
probably nothing for AMC15 105W
G10 is now G18 123W
nothing for 125W AMC21

 

[Duke Pittsburgh]

Thanks for all the great inffo guys. Still no good. I set up G17, G28 and AMC9 manually and still cnnot get any quality on the meter. I threw my Dish500 back up just to re-verify by box and coax. I brought my whole set-up home with me to Pittsburgh just to have internet access and time to mess with it. I set everything back up tonight with new coodinates. Dishpointer.com as well as the SatFinder AR app on my wifes smartphone...NOTHING. Now I will admit Ibought my 33" dish/universal LNB combo on eBay by wy of China. I am suspecting a bad LNB at this point. Any way to test one? May just buy another since they are relatively inexpensive.

 

[FaT Air]

My Pansat 3500 will hover the Signal meter close to, if not on, ZERO with no LNB connected. Then I think it's somewhere around 35 with a good LNBF connected. (it's been a while since I've had it hooked up) My bad LNBF's wouldn't make the Signal meter rise at all.(BTW- it does not have to be on the dish to see this)
If that tests OK, There is still a chance that it's bad. For the price, a new one to confirm, is pretty painless. And, having a spare isn't a bad idea.

 

[T4Runner]

You didn't say whether you have ever settup a KU Band FTA system or not before? (it makes a difference in our assumptions) Is the pole mast perfectly plumb? Do you have a meter or are you using the receiver and a TV at the dish? When I first started out years ago, I gave up in frustration and used a DTV circular LNB and a $10 meter to find 119W which is almost my due South satellite. Then switched out the LNB with a linear LNB and found my first linear sat in 121W next door to it.

 

[Bob2011]

Make sure 22 KHz tone is on . I made this mistake when I first used a universal LNB and had a similar experience to what you are having.

 

[bigzzz]

I have that same box. Im in N.E. Mi.
What I would do is hook up my cheap sat. meter, try to get some kind of blip.
Then do a Blind Scan. I almost always get something.
Then when you get some channels, go to "the list" and figure outwhere your pointed at.
Blind Scan is what works for me.

 

[Duke Pittsburgh]

OK. With a new universal LNB, no difference ; 75% signal, 0quality. To answer a previous question, I have NEVER been able to get a linearLNB to line up. I do not have a signal meter and I am using the STB as a meter(with a new 3’ RG6 coax jumper and a 13” TV right there, watching the screen).I reinstalled my old DN circular LNB to make sure I know what I’m doing withaiming via compass, level, Dishpointer.com specs and the SatfinderAR smartphoneapp. I get 78 sig/78 quality with that,although I would bet circular LNB’s are much easier to aim.
To give an example of one of the many attempts I have made,I am currently pointing at G28 @ 89w. With my post plumb in all directions, manuallysetting my skew 10.3 deg. counter clockwise (FACING the dish)(I hope that’sright - tried it both ways), 42.4 deg. azimuth eyeballed, using the elevationmarkings on the bracket. On the Pansat2700a, I am on the following settings;
LNB = universal 1 (9750-10600) (have tried all, even ‘standard’,manually entering 10,600mhz)
22kHz switch = on andoff (with universal LNB, defaults to a dash (-)
DiSEqC = off (tried all)
Skew = defaults to 45 (I have tried this at every number +and -)
TP = I have manually entered the following “strong”transponders:
11887 H 6.666 and 11952 V 19.532
Positioner setting = off (tried 1.2 and USALS)
Sat Scan = FTA and scrambled (and FTA only)
I have never got so much as a blip on the quality meter.Completely out of ideas. Anything else you guys can think of?

 

[FaT Air]

<<42.4 deg. azimuth eyeballed, using the elevationmarkings on the bracket. >>
I think you meant ELEVATION, not azimuth


<<On the Pansat2700a, I am on the following settings;
LNB = universal 1 (9750-10600) (have tried all, even ‘standard’,manually entering 10,600mhz)
22kHz switch = on andoff (with universal LNB, defaults to a dash (-)>>
that's normal, on universal the software will turn it OFF for 10.7.-11.7ghz, and ON for 11.7-12.7(or somewhere around these freqs.) Standard LNB, 10600 LO, 22khz on , workes for all N.A. Satellites. freqs in use are 11.7-12.2Ghz


<<DiSEqC = off (tried all)>>
You don't have a switch in the system, so this setting is for naught. No switch to "hear it".


<<Skew = defaults to 45 (I have tried this at every number +and -)>>
ignore, it's for use with a servo controlled feed


TP = I have manually entered the following “strong”transponders:
11887 H 6.666 and 11952 V 19.532


Positioner setting = off (tried 1.2 and USALS)>>
No positioner installed so this setting has nothing to "hear it" also


>>Sat Scan = FTA and scrambled (and FTA only)
I have never got so much as a blip on the quality meter.Completely out of ideas. Anything else you guys can think of?>>


Just a bit of doublechecking here, Pittsburgh, Pa area looking for G28 @ 89w
Your at ~ 40.445641,-80.003128 (google maps) plugging these numbersand satellite into www.dispointer says :
Location-Latitude: 40.4456° Longitude: -80.0031°DishElevation:42.4° Azimuth: 193.7°LNB skew: 10.4°
Looks like all that is proper.
-- Be aware, you must be in the tune up screen, with the active transponder selected, to show the quality. Also, you must make small movements of the dish, wait a few (5 to 10sec), then repeat. Just sweaping the dish across, up and down won't allow the receiver to "lock onto" the transponder and display quality.
>>I would bet circular LNB’s are much easier to aim. <<
Not an understatement. FTA signals are very weak in comparison, reason for the larger dish requirement. This also means you have to be closer to "right on" to lock them. as the beamwidth of the larger dish is narrower.
Suggest setting elevation, then pan across the sky across where dishpointer shows in small steps, If no Quality found, adjust elevation slightly and repeat. Not all elevation scales are that accurate.
After you get lock and "right on" I mark the backside of the dish/mount with it's "offset" in elevation as what dishpoointer says. Makes finding other sats quicker. Oh, another thought, are you sure there's no obstructions, trees or buildings along the path? Good luck with finding that first one.
11952 V 19.532 is no longer on 89W. 11800 V 26660, 11918 V 30000, 12159 V 30000, 12131 V 10369

 

[Duke Pittsburgh]

Thanks a bunch FaT Air! Going out to give it another shot right now. I'll letcha know what I get.

No obstructions (at camp, where I started this project) or here at home. I set evertything up on my porch, where I have a wide open view of the south.

One other question concerning the LNB type..."that's normal, on universal the software will turn it OFF for 10.7.-11.7ghz, and ON for 11.7-12.7(or somewhere around these freqs.) Standard LNB, 10600 LO, 22khz on , workes for all N.A. Satellites. freqs in use are 11.7-12.2Ghz".........do you suggest I keep it on STANDARD and manually enter the 10,600mHz? That gives me the ability to toggle the 22khz ON. STANDARD doesn't give me the ability to enter a freq. range, such as 9750 to 10600, just a single number. UNIVERSAL is pre-set to 9750 - 10600. I know every box is a little different. Thanks for your help man.

 

[FaT Air]

>>I keep it on STANDARD and manually enter the 10,600mHz?<<That's how I do it when I have a Universal LNB aimed at a domestic satellite.- Standard, 10600 LO, 22khz ON. Being the 10.7 - 11.7 band isn't used by domestic satellites, if you set it to Standard, 10600 LO, 22khz ON. A blind scan will then not scan the 10.7 -11.7 band. That will cut down the time it takes to scan the satellite. (Why look for something that's not there?) Some Atlantic Ku birds have some 10.7 -11.7 and 11.7 - 12.2 signals available in parts of N.A. For to see all on these, I'd set to Universal, 9750-10600 LO, (Auto, or grayed out)

>>STANDARD doesn't give me the ability to enter a freq. range, such as 9750 to 10600, just a single number. UNIVERSAL is pre-set to 9750 - 10600<<
That's not a freq range, it's the two LO frequencies used at the LNBF. 22khz Off sets the LO (local oscillator) in the LNBF to 9750. On sets it to 10600. This is because the receiver doesn't tune 11GHZ, it tunes the difference frequency generated by the satellites signal and the LO. in the LNBF; 10.700Ghz minus 9.750 equals .925Ghz (925Mhz). 1100Mhz + 10600Mhz = 11.7Ghz The "range" tuned by the receiver is typically ?950MHz to 2150MHz (often referred to as "L" band)

 

[polgyver]

Could it be that there are problems with elevation (altitude) markings of your dish? So, maybe you could try "from the other end" - try the trick which I described in my recent post "Pointing the azimuth of Ku dish using Sun, not compass" ? With azimuth tentatively set, try to move the dish up and down, slowly, over more than 6 - 8 degrees. Cheers, polgyver

 

[Duke Pittsburgh]

Turns ot the elevation adjustment on the bracket was about 11 degrees off! Gotta love an eBay-special dish... Good sig/quality on G28 data tp's, smart scan found a whopping 2 channels! BTV-1 and BYU-TV. ABC News Now/News One has moved to G17 (Iceberg's post). This was a huge monkey off my back, hitting my first linear. It is all about tweaking from here! Now I can move around to some other sat's. Thank you to everyone who helped, I really appreciate all your input!

 

[FaT Air]

Glad it worked out. Yep, some of those "scales" aren't so accurate. So now you know where that satellite is, mark the mount pole with it's location. and mark the elevation scale with it's "offset". Makes finding the rest a lot easier. 11 degrees seems quite a lot, maybe the pole is off a bit??? but what the heck, Have fun!

 

[polgyver]

Turns ot the elevation adjustment on the bracket was about 11 degrees off! Gotta love an eBay-special dish... Good sig/quality on G28 data tp's, smart scan found a whopping 2 channels! BTV-1 and BYU-TV. ABC News Now/News One has moved to G17 (Iceberg's post). This was a huge monkey off my back, hitting my first linear. It is all about tweaking from here! Now I can move around to some other sat's. Thank you to everyone who helped, I really appreciate all your input!

Hello, Duke, could you, please, do a favour to our "gang" and take a picture of your dish bracket, and post it. This way we can learn what to anticipate when dealing with occasionally purchased dish. I suspected the elevation problem, but would never guess that the error was whopping 11 degrees! Regards, polgyver

 

[Duke Pittsburgh]

Absolutely!

PLEASE DON'T LAUGH AT MY TEMPORARY SET UP! I just threw this pipe up on my porch when I brought the whole set up home to figure the problem out. It's only a 1" pipe but I have a pvc sleeve under the bracket. It is ugly and doesn't look that secure but IT IS PLUMB! In the pic, the dish is pointed @ G28, elev.42.4. I found signal right around 53.5 on the bracket.

 

[FaT Air]

Looking at the third picture, the edge of the mount, inside the adjustment slot, is in many instances the elevation "reference". It looks to be aligning with ~45°. It would then only be ~2° off. Right around "normal" for a lot of mounts. Usually, but not always, if the bolt is the reference, there's a "point" that follows the scale. All in all, glad you've got it operating.

 

[polgyver]

Looking at the third picture, the edge of the mount, inside the adjustment slot, is in many instances the elevation "reference". It looks to be aligning with ~45°. It would then only be ~2° off. Right around "normal" for a lot of mounts. Usually, but not always, if the bolt is the reference, there's a "point" that follows the scale. All in all, glad you've got it operating.

That's true, the different dish manufactures use their - inconsistent - systems to mark elevation. Some use special washer under the nut, where the washer has special corners for aligning with scale. Others use the inner edge of bracket - sometimes marked with red paint, and this is slightly visible on picture 3. I had the same problem with dish some time ago, took me a while to figure it out. The 1" pipe, if it is rigid and with sleeve, is not worse than regular tubing. The ideal substitute would be rigid electrical or plumber's pipe trade size 1-1/4, its outside dia is 42 mm - the same size as original tubing which comes in package with dish. Glad to hear that everything works. Cheers, polg