OTA STB Time Bomb?

[Threv]

Ok Folks, I was having a lively discussion with some coworkers concerning the the OTA use of the STB's after the 30th. It was pointed out that newly canceled customers are getting their Boxes shut down immediately.

Most of the talk on the board here has centered on them sending a kill signal on the night of the 30th/31st. It has been suggested that if we unplug our Dishes the night before we can avoid getting the kill signal and keep using the OTA (sans PG).

What if they have already sent the kill signal and its timed to go off on the 30th? Disconnecting the dish would not make a difference and our boxes would die.

Does anybody know if this is a probability? (we know its possible..)
Are there any Disgruntled VOOM Techs out there who might anonymously give us a definitive answer?

 

[Kentstater72]

Most of the talk on the board here has centered on them sending a kill signal on the night of the 30th/31st. QUOTE]

I'd like to see them set the kill for April 31st.

OR... what if they have sent the kill signal and they will send an antidote to the faithful

 

[txdude]

Well, if they do "Kill" all the STBs, I think those customers that paid for their STBs may have some legal recourse. There is a difference between them no longer sending a SAT signal because they are out of business, and them sabotaging the remaining functionality of STBs that have been purchased by consumers just because they can.

Either way it's too early to tell what their intent is. We will all just have to wait and see.

 

[VegasVoomer]

This has probably been answered too but I dont know if the OTA will work without the access card. If there is a timer to turn off the OTA it would most likely be stored on the access card. So if it works without it you can try just pulling it on the 30th so the bomb wont go off.

 

[Threv]

This has probably been answered too but I dont know if the OTA will work without the access card. If there is a timer to turn off the OTA it would most likely be stored on the access card. So if it works without it you can try just pulling it on the 30th so the bomb wont go off.

But (going on this scenario), if you put the card back in wouldn't it detect that the "D-Day" has occured and activate the Kill anyways? I suppose this really depends on the intricacies of Card programming and on that I freely admit my ignorance.

 

[Indy]

I believe what we all aren't getting here is this. In the digital data stream is a embedded data file with ALL our smartcard numbers in it. There is also a digital pin that is changed from time to time and registered on the chip of the smartcard. This data stream is broadcast over and over in a continuous loop. The receiver checks everytime the internal clock tells it it is time to see if it's smartcard number and valid pin number came down in the stream. If the smart card number and matching pin were not contained in the loop, the box turns off. You would think this would be allot of data to keep sending but the file is very small in terms of digital data and transmission speeds.

This is where the term "un looper" was derived for the hacker community. All DBS providers use this method of protection against signal theft. If the STB is plugged into a power source you have no way of defeating the clock in the chip. The only way to defeat the security issues is for a software re write and I don't think that would happen due to possible legal issues. From what I understand this same box is used for HD cable in some communities.

 

[Threv]

Well, if they do "Kill" all the STBs, I think those customers that paid for their STBs may have some legal recourse. There is a difference between them no longer sending a SAT signal because they are out of business, and them sabotaging the remaining functionality of STBs that have been purchased by consumers just because they can.

Either way it's too early to tell what their intent is. We will all just have to wait and see.

Well we all need to go look at our terms of service to see if the use of the receiver is contingent upon the use of the service - more than likely it is. Then you'd have to look to see what happens if Voom is unable to fulfill their end, more than likely the equipment is disabled. Remember they probably have contracts as well for both the software and hardware, any remaining boxes in operation would still bind Cablevision to those licenses and the fees or royalties related to those licenses. The only way they can get out of this cleanly is by demonstrating that they've shut the boxes off. Of course since I don't have the terms of service/contract in front of me nor do I know what licenses agreements Cablevision/Voom may have entered into I'm only speculating at this point...

 

[Threv]

I believe what we all aren't getting here is this....Edited out
..... The only way to defeat the security issues is for a software re write and I don't think that would happen due to possible legal issues. From what I understand this same box is used for HD cable in some communities.

Grrrrrrrr Sounds like we will all be screwed for the OTA if thats the case....
Oh well off to buy the ATI AIW HD.

 

[Ilya]

What if they have already sent the kill signal and its timed to go off on the 30th? Disconnecting the dish would not make a difference and our boxes would die.

Does anybody know if this is a probability? (we know its possible..)
Are there any Disgruntled VOOM Techs out there who might anonymously give us a definitive answer?

Threv, I talked to VOOM engineers about this a couple of times (as recently as this week). These people are supposed to know this stuff. From what I was told (unofficially) is that to the best of their knowledge, there are no OTA time-bombs (perhaps there is a time-bomb for satellite reception, but not for the OTA), and that currently there are no plans and no reason for disabling OTA functionality on or after 4/30.

Of course in the company where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing anything is possible. But this is what I was told. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Lobstah]

I'd look at the MyHD card. I've used it, and it's a great product. Provides DVR functionality too. (for those that think that's important

Lob

 

[Threv]

Threv, I talked to VOOM engineers about this a couple of times (as recently as this week). These people are supposed to know this stuff. From what I was told (unofficially) is that to the best of their knowledge, there are no OTA time-bombs (perhaps there is a time-bomb for satellite reception, but not for the OTA), and that currently there are no plans and no reason for disabling OTA functionality on or after 4/30.

Of course in the company where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing anything is possible. But this is what I was told. Take it for what it's worth.

Thanks Ilya! I appreciate the info (I'm disconnecting my dish Just in Case)

 

[elocs]

Ok Folks, I was having a lively discussion with some coworkers concerning the the OTA use of the STB's after the 30th. It was pointed out that newly canceled customers are getting their Boxes shut down immediately.

Most of the talk on the board here has centered on them sending a kill signal on the night of the 30th/31st. It has been suggested that if we unplug our Dishes the night before we can avoid getting the kill signal and keep using the OTA (sans PG).

What if they have already sent the kill signal and its timed to go off on the 30th? Disconnecting the dish would not make a difference and our boxes would die.

Does anybody know if this is a probability? (we know its possible..)
Are there any Disgruntled VOOM Techs out there who might anonymously give us a definitive answer?

This is why I have already ordered a new HD ota receiver. I have no intention to put my faith in an unsupported receiver that might or might not work. As far as a definitive answer goes, when in the last 4 months have we ever had a definitive answer about anything other than the most recent notice that Voom was ending on 30 April?

 

[bryan27]

The receiver checks everytime the internal clock tells it it is time to see if it's smartcard number and valid pin number came down in the stream.

But, if at shut down the date is changed to Jan.1st 1980 wouldn't the receiver be waiting 25 years for the next "scheduled" check? By that time the STBs will probably have already worn out and were long replaced.

I'll have to check, but I think when you reboot the date is set to 1980 until the receiver gets the time from the satellite.

 

[Indy]

But, if at shut down the date is changed to Jan.1st 1980 wouldn't the receiver be waiting 25 years for the next "scheduled" check? By that time the STBs will probably have already worn out and were long replaced.

I'll have to check, but I think when you reboot the date is set to 1980 until the receiver gets the time from the satellite.

The date has nothing to do with it. It is the elapsed conglomerate time the unit has been in operation.

 

[iceshark]

That is correct. In fact as a security measure the card has auth dates internally. Even if you unplug your unit or remove card. It will still turn of OTA if it is included in date stamp so to speak on card chip. Example card has tiers for different channels of operations. So tiers could be good as an expample from 3-8-05 to 6-08-05 so you can unplug all you want,but come 6-9-05 BYE BYE to those authorization tiers.
Sorry!

 

[T2k]

Indy, IIRC it has been posted many times: if you have an ever activated box which wasnt deactivated, it'll work just fine for OTA until you do a full factory reset.

In fact, somebody here has working OTA, despite the fact he cancelled Voom last year. He accidentally wasn't deactivated immediately and he disconnected the satellite soon and his box is still active for long months now, without any 'heartbeat' and such.
This is a legend, I believe - it doesn't effect OTA functions at all I think.

 

[James Long]

somebody here has working OTA, despite the fact he cancelled Voom last year. He accidentally wasn't deactivated immediately and he disconnected the satellite soon and his box is still active for long months now, without any 'heartbeat' and such.

Start from the fact that there was an error ... he wasn't deactivated immediately.

It is possible that they have put an "authorized through" date on channels instead of just turning them on until further notice, but I would not expect an "authorized through" date on locals except for leased boxes.

If you pulled from the satellite THEN cancelled the dates might be out of whack.

JL

 

[T2k]

Start from the fact that there was an error ... he wasn't deactivated immediately.

It is possible that they have put an "authorized through" date on channels instead of just turning them on until further notice, but I would not expect an "authorized through" date on locals except for leased boxes.

If you pulled from the satellite THEN cancelled the dates might be out of whack.

JL

As of now apparently nobody will be deactivated - we don't cancel our service, the provider goes black, so it would be awkward to deactivate our boxes when it's only authorize to their service. If they ever will come back in any form
, they can still use it.

 

[James Long]

As of now apparently nobody will be deactivated - we don't cancel our service, the provider goes black, so it would be awkward to deactivate our boxes when it's only authorize to their service. If they ever will come back in any form, they can still use it.

I don't expect a kill all signal that is irreversable except for factory interference - Voom doesn't want boat anchors any more than you do. But I do expect that the subscriptions on recievers will time out. The big question is whether OTA is treated as if it were a subscription (that needs to be renewed or see a satellite heartbeat to continue) or if it is a simple on/off arrangement. We have had credible reports of people with boxes that DO NOT work for OTA ... so it is obvious that the authorization CAN be turned off. (As well as credible reports of OTA working after disconnect - error or not?)

In any case ... the guide is going away. If one has no other tuner a Voom box would be better than nothing. I hope there is a return plan and really wish that Voom would tell their customers what is going on AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. This 'transition' would be a lot less painful if Voom were more open about what was, is and will be going on.

JL

 

[Indy]

I don't expect a kill all signal that is irreversable except for factory interference - Voom doesn't want boat anchors any more than you do. But I do expect that the subscriptions on recievers will time out. The big question is whether OTA is treated as if it were a subscription (that needs to be renewed or see a satellite heartbeat to continue) or if it is a simple on/off arrangement. We have had credible reports of people with boxes that DO NOT work for OTA ... so it is obvious that the authorization CAN be turned off. (As well as credible reports of OTA working after disconnect - error or not?)

In any case ... the guide is going away. If one has no other tuner a Voom box would be better than nothing. I hope there is a return plan and really wish that Voom would tell their customers what is going on AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. This 'transition' would be a lot less painful if Voom were more open about what was, is and will be going on.

JL

Think about this. The satellite channels and the OTA channels share the same guide and guide data. If the STB shuts down due to no authorization access, the channel GUIDE is what you are not able to tune to. No guide data, no OTA channels to tune to. This is a software architecture problem not a simple flip of the switch to keep the OTA active after the guide data is no longer being beamed down.