Onkyo DV-HD805, Grand opeining....Grand closing

[seminole2001]

Onkyo DV-HD805, the phantom HD DVD

Gian Luca Di Felice

The first Onkyo HD DVD player has been available in Italy for a few days now, but it can already be considered as a collector's item, because there are very few units in existence, and Onkyo has stopped its production.

We were waiting for a unit of the first Onkyo HD DVD player, the DV-HD805, for review on the pages of AV Magazine. After a conversation with Tecnofuturo, the Brescia-based Italian distributor of the Japanese manufacturer, we decided in mutual agreement that it was not worth the trouble. The reasons are quickly explained: the DV-HD805 is no other than a rebranded Toshiba HD-XE1 HD DVD player, which is already compatible with streaming of all lossless multichannel HD codecs via HDMI 1.3, and there are only few units of it available.

In view of the new marketing policy being applied by Toshiba, consisting of sinking the price of its own players, Onkyo has difficulty in positioning its own player (the Europe list price is 899 euros) and has therefore decided to stop production. The scarce units produced have been redistributed in varios markets. It has been known that barely 11 units arrived in Italy, and no others will come. Germany has been more fortunate, with 20 units, and Spain will receive none.

As to why it was decided not to review such a product, apart from its being a clone, it won't be effectively be available on the market (the 11 Italian units are already sold). We thank Tecnofuturo for such a quick communication and we apologize to the enthusiasts. Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player. We'll have other news and more confirmation during the upcoming CES at Las Vegas.


Onkyo DV-HD805, l'HD DVD fantasma - AV Magazine - Audio Video - www.avmagazine.it - AVMagazine

 

[vurbano]

There is already a thread on this here http://www.satelliteguys.us/hd-dvd-...d805-hd-dvd-player-just-rebadged-toshiba.html.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Way to go Toshiba

 

[vurbano]

Way to go Toshiba

Its toshiba's fault if Onkyo took their boards and put them in an Onkyo case?

 

[Peter Parker]

I believe that he is referring to certain Toshiba strategies that the article alleges undercut Onkyo's position. In the end though I think that Onkyo was doomed from the atart if it as simply rebadging a player and raising the price.

 

[vurbano]

I believe that he is referring to certain Toshiba strategies that the article alleges undercut Onkyo's position. In the end though I think that Onkyo was doomed from the atart if it as simply rebadging a player and raising the price.

What policies? What article? I see no link to anything. The only thing I can gather from the dribble posted by the OP is that the E1 is a superior product and Onkyo cannot build it better and compete at the E1 price point.

Onkyo has difficulty in positioning its own player (the Europe list price is 899 euros) and has therefore decided to stop production.

Frankly, I do not see anything Toshiba has done wrong except not artificially inflating its price. So now we want to crucify toshiba because there is not enough profit for people like Onkyo to build expensive players to sell to HT idiot snobs?

Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player.

So Onkyo is going to go after BD HT suckers now? Thats what the article says to me.

 

[r.jones1116]

Way to go Toshiba

Not much different than what Sony did to the other CE manufacturers of Bluray players.

 

[Peter Parker]

What policies? What article? I see no link to anything. The only thing I can gather from the dribble posted by the OP is that the E1 is a superior product and Onkyo cannot build it better and compete at the E1 price point.





Frankly, I do not see anything Toshiba has done wrong except not artificially inflating its price. So now we want to crucify toshiba because there is not enough profit for people like Onkyo to build expensive players to sell to HT idiot snobs?

So Onkyo ios going to go after BD HT suckers now? Thats what the article says to me.

If you read the original post it is apparently quoting from an article and it makes a statement about Toshiba pricing policies undercutting Onkyo. you may note that I also stated that I don't buy that completely a and I argue as you have that if Onkyo is really just rebadging a Toshiba player the strategy was flawed from the start.


Interstingly in your last comment you refer to an article. What article is that ? I thought that you did not see one.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Its Toshiba's fault they are so worried about selling more players that their killing interest from other manufacturers. Who wants to get into making HDDVD players when you cant make money on a player because Toshiba is willing to lose money. Oh yeah, lets not forget that even with all these cheapo HDDVD players that BD continues to sell more movies, mainly due to the trojan ps3 horse.

Toshiba's low cost strategy is only going to get them so far, they really need a new horse because that one is dead. What's their plan when BD's get to $199? Are they going to do a "Buy 1 HDDVD movie, get 5 players for free promotion"?

 

[IcEWoLF]

Its Toshiba's fault they are so worried about selling more players that their killing interest from other manufacturers. Who wants to get into making HDDVD players when you cant make money on a player because Toshiba is willing to lose money. Oh yeah, lets not forget that even with all these cheapo HDDVD players that BD continues to sell more movies, mainly due to the trojan ps3 horse.

Toshiba's low cost strategy is only going to get them so far, they really need a new horse because that one is dead. What's their plan when BD's get to $199? Are they going to do a "Buy 1 HDDVD movie, get 5 players for free promotion"?

LoL @ Buy 1 HDDVD movie, get 5 players for free promotion*.
Thats a seller right there!

 

[vurbano]

If you read the original post it is apparently quoting from an article and it makes a statement about Toshiba pricing policies undercutting Onkyo

How is Toshiba undercutting anybody? It is the toshiba player that they are cloning.Toshiba can price their player at any price point they please. If Onkyo cannot produce a machine to compete with it then that is not Toshiba's fault. I would say that this is a positive for the consumer. Onkyo has proven that Toshiba is producing a high quality player at a terrific price. Onkyo cannot even rebadge them and make a profit let alone develop their own. How could ANY moron read anything negative into this? Let alone start a toshiba bashing thread over it? Are you nuts going to start a Honda and Toyota bashing thread next for kicking Fords @SS???:haha

 

[gadgtfreek]

I would read it differently. For Onkyo to develop a top notch product, they could not compete and would lose money. They tried the option of a clone but could not even make a dime like that, therefore they shut it down.

It has nothing to do with Toshiba making a "top quality" product.

My A2 is nice, but could be improved upon. No one is going to want to try and lose money. Lets face it, these guys are in it to make money off the players, not support a format(unless your Sony or Toshiba). This is why BD has much more support in the hardware department.

BTW, where are those HDDVD camcorders, those HDDVD car head units, etc to compete with BD?


Toshiba has a handful of companies installing HDDVD pc drives, they dont have an announced HDDVD car audio product, nor a HDDVD camcorder. Being the only person on your side in a multi front war is not so smart.

 

[Peter Parker]

How is Toshiba undercutting anybody? It is the toshiba player that they are cloning.Toshiba can price their player at any price point they please. If Onkyo cannot produce a machine to compete with it then that is not Toshiba's fault. I would say that this is a positive for the consumer. Onkyo has proven that Toshiba is producing a high quality player at a terrific price. Onkyo cannot even rebadge them and make a profit let alone develop their own. How could ANY moron read anything negative into this? Let alone start a toshiba bashing thread over it? Are you nuts going to start a Honda and Toyota bashing thread next for kicking Fords @SS???:haha

IF you actually read my post that you responded to you would know that I put the onus on Onkyop for selling a clone at a higher price. I am not by the way bashing anything and certainly not introducing a third brand into the mix. All i a m saying is that with such a large price difference the cloner can't sell sufficient volume to make money.

But being our own lovable vurbano you do what you always do---take a quote out of context and try to twist it to mean something different rather than actually respond to what a post does say.

 

[r.jones1116]

BTW, where are those HDDVD camcorders, those HDDVD car head units, etc to compete with BD?

Canon Cameras - HV20 Mini DV HD DVD Camcorder - 2059B001

 

[hbk409]

Canon Cameras - HV20 Mini DV HD DVD Camcorder - 2059B001

that records on miniDV not on an hddvd like blu ray has like this hitachi
Hitachi boiling up a Blu-Ray camcorder - Engadget
Hitachi's world's first Blu-ray camcorders coming this year - Engadget

 

[allargon]

BTW, where are those HDDVD camcorders, those HDDVD car head units, etc to compete with BD?

Toshiba's not making the car product. Alpine is.

GEARFUSE » Alpine brings HD-DVD to your non-HD car screen

Honestly, who would you rather have in your car audio setup, Toshiba, Sony or Alpine?

I would give you Pioneer. However, not Toshiba or Sony over Alpine.

Yeah, let's take this one with a grain of salt. Sorry, this is like when everyone thought (hoped) Warner was abandoning combos. Nope. We're still stuck with them. Now, Paramount and more importantly Dreamworks Animation might start producing them, too.

Onkyo may be repositioning itself. Europe is years behind the US in HD adoption. However, HD-DVD is almost non-existent in Japan, and the US dollar is a nightmare for overseas exporters. Seriously, people pay $300 or more for an Onkyo SD DVD player when players are available at Wal-Mart for $30. (I think that Onkyo player also plays SACD/DVD-A, too.) If Onkyo has the bad-ass brand name to upcharge $300 above the XA2, then they should do so. IMHO, they should add SACD/DVD-A playback and internal DTS-MA decoding in addition to the better upscaling and DAC's for $300.

Philips is already bitching about Blu-ray standalone sales. Denon delayed (*read* retreated to restrategize) their standalone.

Arcam, Lexicon, Cambridge Audio, Rotel, Meridian, etc. are shaking their heads about this mess. I guess they're waiting for the dust to settle.

So, far Pioneer is the only true lower high-end (or upper midrange) player in the game.

 

[vurbano]

IF you actually read my post that you responded to you would know that I put the onus on Onkyop for selling a clone at a higher price. I am not by the way bashing anything and certainly not introducing a third brand into the mix. All i a m saying is that with such a large price difference the cloner can't sell sufficient volume to make money.

But being our own lovable vurbano you do what you always do---take a quote out of context and try to twist it to mean something different rather than actually respond to what a post does say.

I really wasnt directing anything at you, sorry.

 

[vurbano]

I would read it differently. For Onkyo to develop a top notch product, they could not compete and would lose money. They tried the option of a clone but could not even make a dime like that, therefore they shut it down.

It has nothing to do with Toshiba making a "top quality" product.

It has everything to do with Toshiba making a top quality product at a great price. If Onkyo could make a better one and charge more for it they would do it. Companies do it all of the time. DENON charges much more than other manufacturers for a stereo reciever, Mitsubishi charges much more for a 9" gun RPTV than other manufacturers. WHY???? QUALITY! And people are willing to pay more. Onkyo, through their actions has admitted that it can not do it any better or cheaper.

There are only two reasons for a manufacturer to jump into this game. Either they can make it "better quality" or they can make it "cheaper" this should tell you a lot about the state of BD players with all of their differrent manufacturers. Either they are inferior or overpriced. I vote the latter.

 

[JoeSp]

This is why nobody else but the Chinese are really interested in marketing a HD-DVD standalone player. They can not make any money the way Toshiba is pricing their standalones to keep the market share they have now -- and that is shrinking worldwide. The only way any company other than Toshiba is going to make money producing a HD-DVD player is to produce a combo player including a BluRay so that the manufacturer can make money.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Toshiba's model, it is that it puts them on an island against everybody else. And if the Chinese are the only ones willing to jump into the water with you -- look out - because they are looking to get your market share (Toshiba's that is). I am not sure one manufacturer can make a format go -- HD-DVD is hanging in there only because of lowballing their own models in retail. Walmart took a bath on those $98 sales because they spent $200 for the players and they did not get any kickback from Toshiba on the wholesale side.

I can't run my business this way or I would be out of business -- but then again Toshiba makes money many differant ways so they have expenedable cash -- question is -- how long will they be able to do this?

 

[vurbano]

I can't run my business this way or I would be out of business -- but then again Toshiba makes money many differant ways so they have expenedable cash -- question is -- how long will they be able to do this?

How many 3/4 billion dollar loss quarters can Sony have on the PS3?