Off the air signal with 622 not as good

[waltinvt]

I'll make this simple.

I am at 800 feet ASL. I have an 811, a 942 and a 622.

Same location. Same HDTV. Same antenna, rotor and amp. Same coax. Even same person operating the remote .

All 3 lock my 2 closest channels, both 43 miles away with a 90s signal.

They all lock another station at 30 miles (different direction) away but the 811 got 80s, while 942 got 70s and 622 gets 60s.

Another station at 76 miles away registered mid 50s on my 811 and even locked a few times with mid 60s if I got the position just right. That station has NEVER even made the meter flicker on either the 942 or the 622 no matter what I do.

Similar with 2 other stations (Boston) over 100 miles away. Locked once for a few seconds with the 811 but usually it just sits at 49% with occasional spikes to 55. Does nothing on 942 or 622.

Now maybe my 622's a fluke but it is NOT as strong an OTA receiver as my 811 - neither can I see any difference between it and my 942.

 

[BigTVSteve]

622 Sensitivity/Selectivity

Waltinv,

Good info/detail. As you state, 60s to 80s signal quality is a big difference between the 811 and 622 receivers on the closer station at your location. However, the only real way to compare the 811 and 622 receiver performance at your location is to temporarily swap their physical locations so you can eliminate house wiring and coupler/switch differences that are feeding the two receivers. If the low signal quality situation follows over to the 622's new temporary location, then I would request a new 622 from Dish Network.

I have two 811s at another house which replaced two VOOM receivers there about a year ago. The 811s had about the same sensitivity as the VOOM receivers. The 811s did seem a little better on multipath rejection (selectivity) than the VOOM receivers. At that location, all OTA stations were pretty close (less than 25 miles) to my Wineguard yagi antenna, but mountains and high hills obscured any direct line of sight to the transmitter locations.

When I replaced another VOOM OTA receiver last week with a new 622 DVR, the 622 solidly locks two OTA channels that were previously very marginal and solidly locks a third channel that had occasional dropouts. On about 8 OTA stations that I receive with the 622, I have an indicated signal strength of 83-98. All stations are obstructed by hills and are 20-35 miles from my CM4228 antenna, so all reception situations have a lot of multipath involved. Bottom line from my 4 receiver experiments over the last year is that the 622 is about the same or a little better than the two 811s I have for moderate distance OTA reception.

BTW, based on my reception results, the 622 tuner is also a little better than my Hitachi 60VS810's internal tuner. Both the VOOM receivers and the 811 receivers were/are much better at dealing with terrrain-caused multipath conditions than the tuner in an early (Nov 04) Sony 60XS955 LCD set.

Let us know what you find out on the receiver position swap, if you decide to try that out. What is the transmitter frequency (in MHZ) for your 30 mile distant problem station? Perhaps the 622 has a sensitivity problem at certain frequencies. From your distant station signal quality results, it sounds like the 811 may be a better receiver for deep fringe locations, but only if you get a watchable picture with a bigger antenna or an antenna-mounted signal amplifier.
Good luck.

 

[rickaren]

I just got my 622 (replacing a 942), and I can now pull in the WB affiliate here in Indianapolis, whereas the 942 couldn't. So I'm thinking that the 622 is better at OTA (at least for right now

WTTV just went to full power about a week ago! Living up here in Noblesville I could however receive it on 29-1, before this major upgrade for them.

Have no issues with the OTA turner with DISH, but Directv HR-10-250 DVR will not pick-up WTTV at same location. Not always the antenna or signal strength, but the receiver.

 

[waltinvt]

Waltinv,

Good info/detail. As you state, 60s to 80s signal quality is a big difference between the 811 and 622 receivers on the closer station at your location. However, the only real way to compare the 811 and 622 receiver performance at your location is to temporarily swap their physical locations so you can eliminate house wiring and coupler/switch differences that are feeding the two receivers. If the low signal quality situation follows over to the 622's new temporary location, then I would request a new 622 from Dish Network.

I have two 811s at another house which replaced two VOOM receivers there about a year ago. The 811s had about the same sensitivity as the VOOM receivers. The 811s did seem a little better on multipath rejection (selectivity) than the VOOM receivers. At that location, all OTA stations were pretty close (less than 25 miles) to my Wineguard yagi antenna, but mountains and high hills obscured any direct line of sight to the transmitter locations.

When I replaced another VOOM OTA receiver last week with a new 622 DVR, the 622 solidly locks two OTA channels that were previously very marginal and solidly locks a third channel that had occasional dropouts. On about 8 OTA stations that I receive with the 622, I have an indicated signal strength of 83-98. All stations are obstructed by hills and are 20-35 miles from my CM4228 antenna, so all reception situations have a lot of multipath involved. Bottom line from my 4 receiver experiments over the last year is that the 622 is about the same or a little better than the two 811s I have for moderate distance OTA reception.

BTW, based on my reception results, the 622 tuner is also a little better than my Hitachi 60VS810's internal tuner. Both the VOOM receivers and the 811 receivers were/are much better at dealing with terrrain-caused multipath conditions than the tuner in an early (Nov 04) Sony 60XS955 LCD set.

Let us know what you find out on the receiver position swap, if you decide to try that out. What is the transmitter frequency (in MHZ) for your 30 mile distant problem station? Perhaps the 622 has a sensitivity problem at certain frequencies. From your distant station signal quality results, it sounds like the 811 may be a better receiver for deep fringe locations, but only if you get a watchable picture with a bigger antenna or an antenna-mounted signal amplifier.
Good luck.

All 3 were from the exact same location, with the same TV and wiring and done as replacements. The 811 is now deactivated and sitting in a box while the 942 is relocated to another room.

The main "problem" station I referred to is WMUR-DT (59) ABC in Manchester,NH. I'm at 05033 and 800 feet with decent views ESE thru SSW. I would get 40- 49% on the 811 for a fairly wide range and as I rotated in closer, it would start jumping to about 55% with occasional spikes to low 60s and like I said, it did lock once which I believe it went over 65%.

With the 942 and now the 622 I can't get the meter to move, no matter where I rotate the antenna. I've also tried disconnecting the part of the amp that plugs in but that makes no difference.

I've debated moving my antenna since currently it's on the North side of the house and has to "look" across a metal roof toward the stations I'm referring to. It's not that high above the roof either, so I'm wondering if that could be a factor.

 

[BigTVSteve]

622 Sensitivity/Selectivity worse than 811

Walt,

Although most users (including me) have reported more OTA channels received on their 622s than on their 811s or other older receivers, I think you have correctly isolated the problem to your 622.

While your metal roof may be causing some multipath problems, in my experience the 622 is also better at rejecting multipath (reflected) signals than the earlier receivers, so moving your antenna might not help (but see the second following paragraph). If you are leasing the 622, I would try to exchange your 622 with another one, citing poor UHF (Channel 59) OTA performance compared to your 811, using the exact same wiring, antenna feed and location. Perhaps you have a friend in the area who could bring his 622 receiver to connect at your location and check out the performance of his unit compared to yours? I would try both of those things before going through the extra aggravation of moving the antenna and wiring.

You might also try bypassing your antenna mounted amplifier (if you have one) completely, but this may result in the loss of your more distant (probably VHF) stations. When I bypassed both components of my Wineguard antenna amp system and used a more powerful UHF antenna (CM4228), my reception of UHF several stations improved significantly. I think the stronger VHF signals of two closer/lower frequency stations at my location were overloading my antenna mounted amp.

If you had a quality local installer set your new equipment up, they frequently have a portable signal analyzer to measure the strength of OTA signals from individual channels. Such a device was invaluable when I mounted a new OTA antenna in a different location. There were some major differences in signal strength on two of my troublesome UHF channels with just a 15-20 foot horizontal move of Wineguard Square Shooter antenna. I held the antenna on a pole and moved it around the roof areas while the installer monitored the signal strength on my problem child stations. I was able to optimize both the location of the Square Shooter and its azimuth direction with the help of the signal analyzer. This would have been very difficult to do without the roof top in-line analyzer.

Good luck with your problem station. Let us know any of your findings.

 

[waltinvt]

Walt,

Although most users (including me) have reported more OTA channels received on their 622s than on their 811s or other older receivers, I think you have correctly isolated the problem to your 622.

While your metal roof may be causing some multipath problems, in my experience the 622 is also better at rejecting multipath (reflected) signals than the earlier receivers, so moving your antenna might not help (but see the second following paragraph). If you are leasing the 622, I would try to exchange your 622 with another one, citing poor UHF (Channel 59) OTA performance compared to your 811, using the exact same wiring, antenna feed and location. Perhaps you have a friend in the area who could bring his 622 receiver to connect at your location and check out the performance of his unit compared to yours? I would try both of those things before going through the extra aggravation of moving the antenna and wiring.

You might also try bypassing your antenna mounted amplifier (if you have one) completely, but this may result in the loss of your more distant (probably VHF) stations. When I bypassed both components of my Wineguard antenna amp system and used a more powerful UHF antenna (CM4228), my reception of UHF several stations improved significantly. I think the stronger VHF signals of two closer/lower frequency stations at my location were overloading my antenna mounted amp.

If you had a quality local installer set your new equipment up, they frequently have a portable signal analyzer to measure the strength of OTA signals from individual channels. Such a device was invaluable when I mounted a new OTA antenna in a different location. There were some major differences in signal strength on two of my troublesome UHF channels with just a 15-20 foot horizontal move of Wineguard Square Shooter antenna. I held the antenna on a pole and moved it around the roof areas while the installer monitored the signal strength on my problem child stations. I was able to optimize both the location of the Square Shooter and its azimuth direction with the help of the signal analyzer. This would have been very difficult to do without the roof top in-line analyzer.

Good luck with your problem station. Let us know any of your findings.

Thanks Steve - I really appreciate you're taking this time.

Maybe I should try getting the 622 swapped as I've also had some of the other freezing / rebooting that others have mentioned - I was waiting to see if software would straighten it out.

So you think it's possible the mast mounted part of the amp system might be a problem? I only have a UHF antenna anyway - a arrow shaped thing (Yagie I think). If I can find the slip, I'll post the make & model. All I remember is it cost me almost $500 to have the antenna, rotor & amp installed, so it should be fairly decent - I hope .

 

[BigTVSteve]

622 Problems

Walt,

Unless you have some closer than 30 miles VHF transmitters, I doubt your mast mounted amplifier is a problem like it was for me. But if it's not too high on the pole and roof, I would still try bypassing the two units with two coax cable barrel connectors (one at the antenna device; one near your TV where the amp's power supply is).

You can check the distances to all transmitters and look at their operating frequencies in your area by going to antennaweb.com and entering your street address there. I think this site also provides an indication of the transmitter's output power.

My antenna-mounted amp was a top of the line Channel Master 7775 unit (not a Wineguard as I posted earlier), but it still had the overload problems and has been bypassed for about two years now.

Let us know if you find the model numbers for the antenna and amp/pre-amp that were used. Also make certain that they used high quality RG6 cables for the entire run from the antenna to your 622 receiver. If your HDTV set has an internal HD tuner, try connecting your RG6 input lead directly to its antenna input and see if you have a watchable picture from all three stations. In my case, the 622 works better than my Hitachi 60VS810's internal tuner for reception of three of my UHF digital stations.

Sounds like you had a quality OTA installation, as that is about what a good installation will cost. Do you know if the installers used a digital meter or spectrum analyzer to help identify a good location for your antenna? Having spent $500 with them already, I would give them a call and ask if you can't remember. Perhaps they have some good records or can make a relatively low priced signal measurement service call to your installation.

My local VOOM installer from early 2005 was well equipped to install OTA antennas. He used an $800 or so portable digital analyzer that showed selected UHF and VHF signal strengths. Optimizing for reception of your channel 59 would be as simple as entering that frequency and making various changes in pre-amps, wiring, and antenna model and/or location.

My week old 622 is acting up a bit, too. About once or twice a day, it loses all of the guide information for the satellite channels between channel 100 and channel 6407 (dish transmission of one of my local San Diego channels-KGTV). All of the HD capable channels from Dish remain available and in the guide. When this guide loss happens, SOMETIMES I cannot directly enter the missing channels for watching TV. This is a big problem if my wife cannot access 112 (HGTV) or 120 (History Channel) directly. This intermittent guide loss has also occurred once on my week old 211 receiver.