Noob question - Should I attempt it?

[kittyhas1000legs]

Hi all,

I've been lurking this forum for months to get enough know-how before I try setting up my first FTA dish. I want to try to go for a balance of low-budget and decent reliability. It will be a fixed dish aimed at 30W. Here's where I might have an issue or two:

-My coworker said that he'll get his slimline dish off of his house and give it to me for free, but that was a few months ago with nothing happening. He doesn't want me to take it down since he's worried about me falling and getting injured/dead on his property. Winter's coming quickly, so if it doesn't come down soon I'll be waiting until the spring for it. I also know that I'd have to alter the arm to attach a linear LNBF, which could be a bit of a challenge for a noob like me. Is it worth waiting for the slimline and buying a microHD to go with it, or should I err on the side of caution (and fewer headaches) and buy the dish/microHD package from SatelliteAV?

-LOS: There isn't much of the sky that I can see from my balcony, which is why I'm going for 30W for now. Dishpointer.com shows that 30W is just west of a large pine tree. I figured that the image from google maps might not be that accurate since it's at an angle, so I bought the iPhone app ($10 version). Unfortunately, the internal compass picks up a lot of interference, even after I took the fan out of the window and unplugged the amp for my antenna. Depending on the day, it's shown 30W in a bunch of different spots, usually just east of the tree. Attached is a the view from my balcony, with the various spots the dishpointer app has shown for 30W. (I just added them in MSPaint since the app is on my girlfriend's phone.)

So what it all boils down to: should I attempt it?

 

[lost_mesa]

It's not looking very good since the average of all the dots is in the tree. I don't have any experience with how accurate Dishpointer.com is.

Do you have somewhere else you can temporarily set up the system to become familiar with its operation and aligning a dish? The fewer variables you start with, the better. You can't go wrong with a microHD/dish package from SatelliteAV. Modifying a slimline dish just adds another variable.

Personally, I'd try it since I like a challenge, but prepare to be disappointed. Or on the positive side, it might work.

 

[kittyhas1000legs]

The one dot to the right seems to be a bit of a fluke; every other time I try it (when it doesn't complain about interference) it shows 30W to the east of the tree. The only place I might be able to get better LOS is on my neighbor's balcony upstairs (perhaps I could get a multiswitch and offer to run a wire to his TV?)

 

[northgeorgia]

Whoa! That tree looks like it's shoving its branches into the other apartment building's balconies! Maybe management needs to get someone to take the whole tree down *wink wink*

 

[primestar31]

It's not looking very good since the average of all the dots is in the tree. I don't have any experience with how accurate Dishpointer.com is.

Do you have somewhere else you can temporarily set up the system to become familiar with its operation and aligning a dish? The fewer variables you start with, the better. You can't go wrong with a microHD/dish package from SatelliteAV. Modifying a slimline dish just adds another variable.

Personally, I'd try it since I like a challenge, but prepare to be disappointed. Or on the positive side, it might work.

Dishpointer is "dead" on the money provided you use your exact coordinates, and place the pointer X right on the spot where your dish is or will be located.

 

[Bob2011]

Well I would first check the sun outage calculator and find out the days within the next two weeks that the sun will be right behind 30w in the sky. That way you know for sure if 30w is possible.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/291879-Sun-Outage-Calculator-Update

If all you are going to watch on 30w is the Cuban networks then you just need a DVB-S box which can be found now for as low as $30 new. If you can't get the slimline dish just ask on Freecycle or Craigslist for a dish. To avoid rain issues on 30w you need a minimum of 24". I used a smaller Dish 500 for a while and it worked well except in heavy rain and snow.

 

[lost_mesa]

I forgot to mention that next month is sun outage time. At a certain day and time the sun will be at the same position in the sky as the satellite. No need to guess where the satellite is. This will tell you if it will work or not. http://www.satellite-calculations.com/Satellite/suninterference.php

 

[danristheman]

Also look up slimline mods I have one and it works pretty good on some but not on all satellites. Just depends on which satellite you aim your dish at.

Dan Rose

 

[johann12]

I used dishpointer on their website which includes google and it was very accurate. You can move the pointer/balloon to where the tree is and it will give you the height that you need to have view to the sat. Just remember that trees will grow taller, at least most at the time.
I never tried the phone app.

 

[Anole]

Modifying a dish is properly left to the experienced user.
I agree that simplifying your first setup will result in quicker success.

That said, certain commercial dishes don't take much more than understanding to fire up.
eg: DirectTV World dish, or a discarded DishNetwork SuperDish.
(existing LNB is fine)
Mention any you have access to, and we might find a winner.


iphone 4

 

[guacharaca]

The beauty of the sun outage calculator is that the sun provides shadows on the ground and your house (and dish). If you are in your yard at the correct time and it is sunny, you can figure out exactly where to put your dish. You will know if raising the dish two feet will solve any signal problems. you will instantly see other opportunities in your yard by seeing where you do NOT have shadows made by objects that will block a satellite signal. My experience was that although I only wanted to verify 58 W, I discouvered that if I raise the dish just a bit I could get 55W. I also saw where I should have placed the dish in the first place but did not as I assumed the neighbour's house was in the way.

 

[kittyhas1000legs]

Modifying a dish is properly left to the experienced user.
I agree that simplifying your first setup will result in quicker success.

That said, certain commercial dishes don't take much more than understanding to fire up.
eg: DirectTV World dish, or a discarded DishNetwork SuperDish.
(existing LNB is fine)
Mention any you have access to, and we might find a winner.

The only one I'll be able to get free (for now) is the slimline. I called a property management company about the dish behind an old Blockbuster store (closed 9 years ago) about the Ku dish behind the building, but haven't gotten any word back from the property owner. That dish is a pretty heavy-duty thing, a curved rectangular shape about 4 feet wide with an LNBF that looks like it has a heatsink attached.

The beauty of the sun outage calculator is that the sun provides shadows on the ground and your house (and dish). If you are in your yard at the correct time and it is sunny, you can figure out exactly where to put your dish. You will know if raising the dish two feet will solve any signal problems. you will instantly see other opportunities in your yard by seeing where you do NOT have shadows made by objects that will block a satellite signal. My experience was that although I only wanted to verify 58 W, I discouvered that if I raise the dish just a bit I could get 55W. I also saw where I should have placed the dish in the first place but did not as I assumed the neighbour's house was in the way.

Fantastic, that makes it a lot easier. I'll be praying for sun in early October.

 

[Anole]

I called a property management company about the dish behind an old Blockbuster store (closed 9 years ago) about the Ku dish behind the building, but haven't gotten any word back from the property owner.
That dish is a pretty heavy-duty thing, a curved rectangular shape about 4 feet wide with an LNBF that looks like it has a heatsink attached.

I should have added, that any "gas station" dish would be very suitable.
Out here, liquor stores sell lottery tickets, and they have 1m wide oval dishes with heatsinks.

Your square-corner dish sounds a lot like a Prodelin 1.2 m (4 ft), and the heatsinks peg it for two-way communications.
Absolutely something to keep after.
The transmitter module is easily removed.
That's really all you need do to make it ready.

Apparently, that may be overkill for 30w, but as your interest grows on FTA, you'll eventually find a need.



iphone 4

 

[kittyhas1000legs]

I should have added, that any "gas station" dish would be very suitable.
Out here, liquor stores sell lottery tickets, and they have 1m wide oval dishes with heatsinks.

Your square-corner dish sounds a lot like a Prodelin 1.2 m (4 ft), and the heatsinks peg it for two-way communications.
Absolutely something to keep after.
The transmitter module is easily removed.
That's really all you need do to make it ready.

Apparently, that may be overkill for 30w, but as your interest grows on FTA, you'll eventually find a need.



iphone 4

What do you suppose the likelihood is of being able to get a dish like that? I know some gas stations around here have a few dishes; would any actually have a "spare" dish that's not in use? If you assume one dish for regular transactions and one for state lottery, there are a couple places around here that might have an extra. I suppose I can just ask around, since all there is to lose is some time and gasoline.

As for the dish behind Blockbuster:


I have a feeling you're right. I'd much rather save it than see it rust away, though it might be a bit big on a second-floor balcony. But there isn't really such a thing as overkill with FTA, right? I thought that bigger dish means better signal, and that can't be a bad thing, right?

Now that I think about it, the giant retail pharmacy chain I work for uses VSAT for most of our operations, and my location is an older store with a couple of dishes. Of course, getting permission to take a disused piece of equipment from the store would be like blood from a stone.

 

[Anole]

Gas stations, pharmacies, and liquor stores get torn down.
I wasn't suggesting you rob a dish from a live business.

I love molded Ku dishes, and one rated for transmission duty, is no slouch.
(they have to be more accurate than receive only dishes)
Yep, that looks like a Prodelin to me.
Overkill for 30w, and for your balcony.
Still, something for the future, a friend, a relative, etc.

A lot of local car dealers have decommissioned a sat system with 6' round Prodelin dishes.
Quite a few members have them.
Their transmitter module looks like a 2 lb coffee can.
The one-piece molded dish is around 75 lbs, if I recall.
You'll be excused for not bagging one of those! -

 

[kittyhas1000legs]

I figured I'd bump this thread rather than start a new one...

After checking the sunny spots on my balcony (based on the times from the solar outage calculator), it looks like Hispasat is a maybe (ugh). There are just a couple of branches that look like they may interfere with reception of 30W. I guess I'll ask my question again: should I attempt it? I assume I shouldn't bother with a modded slimline and buy a 90CM, but would that be able to compensate for a branch or two being in the way? Would the branches simply kill and chance at getting a reliable signal? The areas that had sun during the peak time of the solar outage were probably just as big as a 90CM dish, so there wouldn't be much margin for error.

 

[Anole]

Trees have leaves. They come 'n go different times of year.
Should you try? That's your call.
But, is 30w your only bird of interest?
Could you have a backup plan using the roof, neighbors balcony, or even the yard?
Expand your thinking. We'll help where we can.

 

[Kraven]

Regarding Dishpointer.com, there might be a mistake when it provides your location (long/lat). I noticed the lat. provided for my address was 4 points off from other sites, including google.

Cheers, K

 

[kittyhas1000legs]

Trees have leaves. They come 'n go different times of year.
Should you try? That's your call.
But, is 30w your only bird of interest?
Could you have a backup plan using the roof, neighbors balcony, or even the yard?
Expand your thinking. We'll help where we can.

Unfortunately evergreens are very stubborn about dropping their needles :tongue:. Judging from the sun on my balcony this morning when I had the outage calculator open, I can only see approx. 15W through 47W, tree depending. I'll definitely knock on my neighbor's door upstairs and see if they wouldn't mind a dish. Of course I'll also offer to run coax to their apt too. The ground is a definite no go because of the trees, which are all around the same height as the buildings (three stories). As for a roof install, I'll ask the rental office and the maintenance guy, since that would suddenly give me clear LOS of just about the whole arc.

I could ask the guy across the way about putting a dish on his balcony, but it might be tacky having a coax tethered across a 20-30 foot gap between buildings...

 

[primestar31]

Regarding Dishpointer.com, there might be a mistake when it provides your location (long/lat). I noticed the lat. provided for my address was 4 points off from other sites, including google.

Cheers, K

That's why you grab the pointer, and move it to your property right on the spot where your dish is. It then recalculates it's position. Sure beats anything else.