No Go Shaw Direct on 100cm dish

[Othea]

Hello everybody

I'm new to Shaw Direct and can't seem to get my HD 600 receiver to download the channel maps properly from Anik F1 (107W) and F2 (111W), although I have very good signal quality (high 90's) and decent Ecb/no on both (7.5-9.9). I get channels, but not on both satellites simultaneously. I.e. once the F2 channel map downloads (after 24hrs), F1 is no longer available!!

So before I invest more hours, I'd like to independently confirm what I have just been told by a Canadian dealership - namely that I MUST use two separate dishes, one for each satellite (This is news to me!).

Is it true?!?

Northeast Georgia

 

[peano]

You need the oval dish with the quad LNB. The 60E or 75E dish.

Or you need two dishes and a switch.

 

[Othea]

Thanks Peano for confirming that one 100cm FTA dish will NOT receive both Shaw satellites w/ LNBFs side by side.

(I'm confused, though; works fine for FTA, Bell, Dish etc.)

 

[peano]

The dish has two LNBs? What type?

 

[Mr Tony]

Thanks Peano for confirming that one 100cm FTA dish will NOT receive both Shaw satellites w/ LNBFs side by side.

yes it will work. Takes some rigging but can be done
I did it on a 1.2m just fine...needed a gap between the LNB's because the spacing is different the larger the dish is. But here are some pics (111.1 was the one in the holder...107.3 was offset)
http://www.satelliteguys.us/canadia...sr505-ebno-s-hd-channels-low.html#post1898100

 

[Othea]

OK. I've been holding back.

Let me begin from the beginning. I sent the information below to tech help at Kusat, and received a laconic response stating that I cannot use one dish; that I must have two if I want to receive both satellites! I found this advice strange, so I wanted to have it confirmed before I added a second dish, especially if the problem lies elsewhere in my equipment.

Up to now my basic Shaw Direct channel lineup "has not taken" (for lack of a better term).

I have the following equipment:
* 100cm dish
* 2 DMS standard linear lnbf's, 11.70-12.20Ghz, side by side.
* Chieta / WSD-2001 0/22khz multiswitch
* HD DSR 600

I have the following signal quality:
* F1 -- 98%, Ecb 9.8 (299, SD channel)
* F2 -- 97%, Ecb 7.5 (or 87%, Ecb 6.4 on HD channel)
(I can peak these, but I felt these numbers would suffice for the satellite receiver to download the proper software / channel maps -- wrong!).

My problem is that:
* channels are missing and the channel offering changes (daily)
* F1 and F2 will not work at the same time !!!

After a channel map for F2 downloads on the second day, F1 registers 0% signal quality (although I know that it was at 98%, Ecb 9.8 before the channel download).

Here is what I've done several times, always with the same results:
1. I do a factory reset, after which F1 returns to 98%, Ecb 9.8 on 299.
2. I wait 10-30 minutes, after which channels from F1 appear. I've left the channel 299 untouched for hours as well, for fear that I might interrupt a download. And I've left the receiver on 299 overnight. F2 is not available during the first 24hrs. The time display is inaccurate.
3. About 24hrs later, a new channel map with F2 downloads and renumbers former channels from F1. The time display has corrected itself. At this point F1 has 0% signal quality and none of the channels on F1 come in. F2 has good signal quality. I have changed nothing at the dish.
4. After another 24 hrs (or more) the channel offering changes again -- but I still only have F2 channels.
5. The only way to reacquire signal quality on F1 is to do a "factory reset" and (sigh !) wait again for the channel map to load. Then, a day later, F1 is replaced by F2 automatically and... bye-bye F1.

I've read about "v-codes," "channel maps," and "hits," none of which was particularly clear. Something is just not working right and the only advice that I have received from tech support is that I must install a second dish.

After F2 channels appear, why does the receiver refuse to recognize my lnbf on F1, which has the strongest reading of the two?!? I just can't wrap my head around the idea that a separate dish will solve that problem. None of the channels that I receive show any sign of a weak signal.

Your advice would be welcome.

 

[QCK]

Othea, you need to be using a a different kind of multi-switch for Shaw Direct to work properly with the LNBs you have. Get yourself a Eagle Aspen S-4180-GX+ powered multiswitch or a Zinwell WB68 non powered multisiwtch or an equivalent to either of these. You need 2 lines from each LNB to the input side of the multiswitch.

http://www.eagleaspen.com/admin/product/fujian/file_243.pdf

Zinwell WB68 DIRECTV Approved Wide Band Frequency (Ku/Ka) 6x8 Multiswitch (WB68) from Solid Signal)

 

[Mr Tony]

The 600 is just a single tuner unit so the 22k switch he has will work fine. I used a simple 22k switch with my 505

The OP needs to make sure its hooked up right. F2 should be plugged into the 22k ON side

 

[peano]

Sorry Othea, I assumed the 100cm dish only had one LNB. Never assume they say - for good reason.

 

[Othea]

Thanks, Iceberg. Having seen one of your earlier posts, I made sure to have F1 at 0khz (off) and F2 at 22khz (on) when I first set things up.

As I struggle with this, it seems to me that the problem lies somewhere in the switching mechanism, not in the fact that I have only 1 dish w/ inadequate signal. Right? In the meantime I've seen that some of my Ecb values on F1 are higher than what I previously stated (channel 70 has Ecb 8.8).

My next steps:
(a) perhaps the brand-new 22k switch is bad -- I'll swap it out to see, and I'll keep in mind QCK's advice (which might be right after all for the 600 HD?)
(b) perhaps the Lnbf's that I have don't play nicely with the 22k switch or receiver box; I'll replace both Lnbf's with a different brand 11.70-12.20Ghz just to see.
(c) perhaps the brand-new receiver isn't even sending a tone signal (software, hardware glitch)... golly gee, I guess in that case I'll HAVE to put up that second dish before I can ask for a replacement receiver... Unless there is an easy way for me to test for a tone myself.

As always, nothing during the installation process was added or removed without my having first unplugged the power cord (I've been around the block before).

When I get home tonight, I'll post my "manual settings" from the hidden setup menu to see if anything there seems out of the ordinary.

If I'm leaving anything out, I'm sure you will let me know!

Thanks, guys!

 

[QCK]

Iceberg knows better, but just for you to know, and maybe eliminate one element is that I know for a fact the two switches I suggested work just fine. I have used them both. It does sound like a switching problem. The WB68 can be had typically for around $20 on ebay btw.

 

[Mr Tony]

My next steps:
(a) perhaps the brand-new 22k switch is bad -- I'll swap it out to see, and I'll keep in mind QCK's advice (which might be right after all for the 600 HD?)

try that first. switches can go bad. Have blown many switches in my 9 years of working with DIsh/Directv/Bell/Shaw and free to air

(b) perhaps the Lnbf's that I have don't play nicely with the 22k switch or receiver box; I'll replace both Lnbf's with a different brand 11.70-12.20Ghz just to see.

that should be fine. As long as they are standard (11.7-12.2Ghz) they will work fine

(c) perhaps the brand-new receiver isn't even sending a tone signal (software, hardware glitch)... golly gee, I guess in that case I'll HAVE to put up that second dish before I can ask for a replacement receiver... Unless there is an easy way for me to test for a tone myself.

Hook F2 directly to the receiver and see if you get 700. If so then the 22k in the receiver works fine

As always, nothing during the installation process was added or removed without my having first unplugged the power cord (I've been around the block before).

was just gonna ask that

 

[catamount]

Mike Khol's site has the same Shaw setup shown as you have. ( single dish,2 lnb's and 22k switch ). So this will work.

After you follow Ice's advice; check lnb's/switch, I would then suspect a v-code problem. It could have the new xku code or possibly the old stacked code.
Here's part of a discussion from a satellite installer's forum:



if the receiver doesn't get a hit it will download the default channel map which will give him most of the channels from f1. it would have to get the correct v-code to get anything from f2. if you don't call to get the v-code set, hits come through sooner or later, could be minutes or days later, but eventually it will be set to the v-code registered in shaw's system. so he might have everything working fine now ( except there's no f2 channels and no guide ) but it might suddenly give him only f2 channels when the next hit comes along.
the correct v-code is determined not only by the type of dish/lnb but by the programming as well since the guide get's limited to only the channels available in your part of the country or your program package. the csr doesn't need to know really what the dish setup is, you just have to tell the csr the dish is going to act like a quad or a double stacked or whatever works. it sounds like this one would be for all intents and purposes a quad.

BTW, got 2 600 receivers this AM. Quite small aren't they? About half the size of a 605 .

Good Luck, Catamount

 

[Othea]

I logged on a few minutes ago to report my status and the connection was severed by a virus attack on my desktop. Oh, boy - another project to deal with! I'm writing from my laptop now.

Anyway, I've changed the Lnbf's and 22k switch, to no avail. Everything is the same; F2 comes in, F1 doesn't. Tech support in Canada e-mailed me to confirm that they are aware that my signal quality is good on both satellites, but that it cannot be done on 1 dish because of an issue with the "skew." They still insist that I need 2 dishes. (I've pointed out that I can adjust the skew of each lnbf individually, though).

Iceberg, I connected to F2 without the switch and channel 700 comes in fine, as it did with the 22k switch in the loop. The problem is (might be?) that the 0 khz doesn't seem to work to "activate" the signal for F1.

Now I've done a "factory reset" to see if the lnbf swap and switch swap will make a difference after a full restart. As each time before, channel 299 comes in strong on F1 -- I'll see what happens in 24 hrs when F2 kicks in... Probably the same as usual - F1 will cease to come in.

 

[QCK]

What switch are you using now that you have changed it?

 

[Frenchophile]

you've narrowed it down one of to two things:
- bad switch
- vcode on your receiver needs to be changed to stacked

also, not sure why you have to wait 24 hrs for F2 to "come in". when I upgraded to 605 and 620 last summer, it took about an hour for the guide and everything to download.

 

[Mr Tony]

actually his vcode should be unstacked as 99% of the aftermarket LNB's are non-stacked

 

[Othea]

QCK - My switch? Same brand, also new Chieta 22k

Frenchophile - me too, I'm surprised. It's been eight hours and F1 channels are not available (but I'm almost sure that they will kick in sometime tomorrow and then... boom! F1 will automatically drop to 0 %).

I got a response from the Canadian tech support regarding our last communication: My setup won't work because skew and offset impact (or something similar). See what I'm dealing with?

That stacked v-code is not clear to me. Shouldn't my Canadian tech support know about that - after all they specialize in snowbird technology. I've been bugging them, but always get the same advice: 2 separate dishes required.

 

[Frenchophile]

i defer to iceberg on stacked vs unstacked, BUT i still think the vcode is the issue

 

[Mr Tony]

so you get nothing now on F1?