New to FTA

[Psikic]

I've decided I want to dive in and buy the equipment for FTA. About 25 years ago when I was a young teenager we had a big c-band dish and I was fascinated by the system. I spent more time scanning for channels on the satellites than watching anything. I don't remember much about it all, other than most of the stuff to watch was on Galaxy 5. Those days are long past.

I've sat for the past week or two reading everything I can to understand what is the same and what has changed since that time. I've done research on Ku band dishes and almost know what I want. I've got big concerns though -- should I even invest in any equipment for this or am I too late and this hobby is DOA? I'm having extreme trouble finding any vendors to even buy any equipment who are still in business, and if they do seem to be in business they haven't updated their websites since 2007 -- I'm not giving any credit card information to someone like that.

1) If I go with an unmotorized dish just to get started and decide I want to add a motor later, is this doable? Or should I just get the motorized dish now?
2) Who would I buy stuff like this from (dish/lnb/receivers)? The vendors I keep finding in searches, on websites, on forums are all out of business.
3) Has the volume of content accessible stayed pretty much steady? If everything is disappearing at a rapid rate, I'll just forget it.

I'm not going this direction to save on monthly bills -- we have a nice Dish Hopper 3 system that we love. I just want the exclusive content only found no FTA, and it seems very similar to my other hobby of listening to radio over SDR.

Thanks!
Brandon Ryan
Conway, AR
Software Developer

 

[FaT Air]

to Satelliteguys
A lot has changed in the years. Everything is digital today except for one or two channels still analog. Even digital has changed, satellite digital is more 'second generation' (S2) since DVB became the 'standard'. Anyhow -
DEALERS I've dealt with. All members here (Hyper has his own forum) KE4EST SAT-AV GotCband Titaniumsatellite & HYPERMEGASAT
Satellite Av has a great deal on ebay for a Ku dish and LNBF

As far as I know, only Hyper has the receiver I'd choose today
For a C band (over 6' but recommend a 10 ft) there's not much available new at hobbyist prices so I'd keep an eye out locally, checking your local papers and craigslist, and regularly check the posts in
Kijiji, eBay, and Craigslist dishes for you to take a look at
If $$ is no problem there's DH Satellite
OFF TOPIC:
Oh my, my BUD is 30 yrs old this year.
Software Developer? any Linux?

 

[bpalone]

Looks like Ricks Satellite has the receiver Fat Air mentioned above, too.

Here is a link: http://www.gofastmotorsports.com/rickssatellitesatellitereceivers.htm

Oh, Welcome To Satellite Guys!!!

 

[Psikic]

Thanks for the recommendations! I wasn't really clear in the original message -- I don't have the backyard space for a BUD of day's past, so I'll probably go Ku only for the start. I'm probably centrally located enough that I could get away with having about a 30" dish? Was probably just going to mount it on a stabilized wood pallet near the house. Still not sure if I should start with a motor, or just get everything working on a popular satellite and add a motor later.

That does seem to be a pretty nice receiver. Would like to come up with a way to control it via software and possibly stream the video from it like Dish (Network) Anywhere.

On a small 30" dish, if I used a Ku/C LNB, I am hoping I could pick up any of the really strong C-band transponders, and if not, then nothing is wasted because I still would pick up the same Ku that I would get with a Ku only LNB?

Software Developer? any Linux?

Did a little work on Linux in college, but that was 12-15 years ago. The majority of my work now is in Windows, stuck in the rut of business software. Not quite Initech, but close enough.

 

[bpalone]

Kinda blew it. Didn't answer some of your questions.

As to Number One, YES you can add a motor later. In fact it is often much easier to start with a fixed dish.

Number two we hit above.

Number three, For the two years I've been back in, things have stayed pretty constant. Yes, things come and things go, but there is usually something interesting watch. The List offered here, lyngsat.com and sathint.com will give you an idea of what is available. C Band is four (4) digit transponder numbers and Ku Band is five (5) digit transponder numbers.

Hope that helps some.

 

[bpalone]

I would recommend going with a 36" dish, which is the Satellite AV dish Fat Air mentioned. If you are thinking about Mini Budding it, then a 1 meter to 1.2 meter is about the smallest I would consider. There are several threads here and elsewhere about Mini Buds. I would wait until I had some experience before trying it though. I haven't done it, but I gather that everything has to be just right for it to work.

 

[Psikic]

You all have been really helpful. One more quick question. If I a doing Ku only and no motor to start with, I could get a monoblock LNB to at least receive two satellites. Are these much more difficult to get to work? Which would everyone suggest I should start by aiming at?

 

[FaT Air]

If you want to limit yourself to a 30 inch dish, I recommend a commercial dish, Like the re-purposed Channel Masters like I have. They were used in the DTN or Primestar service. It still won't get 'everything' on Ku. They have their limits as they are susceptible to adjacent satellite interference. The one linked to is still my recommendation. And it's more favorable to converting to a mini BUD.
97W has the most channels but few are English. 103W has a couple of HD news channels. 30W has some movies. 125W is PBS, 121 for auto shows.
I personally wouldn't use a monoblock. But two LNBFs so as to be able to hit 2 sats but not limited to a specific 'spacing'. Lots of threads with pictures on this. AND a 36 inch is highly recommended for this.
Dan, you're the authority on this, mini BUD and Multi lnbf's, jump in,
Don't know how 'open' your view is but check out your LOS at www.dishpointer.com

 

[danristheman]

Get started in working with a ku dish first then go from there. Don't start out with c band unless you have a C band dish already in your backyard. When you get settled in on a ku system then go from there. 1 meter to a 1.2 meter dish is minimum so start out with mini budding. I live in apartment so I am limited to what can get but I can receive some c band strong transponders. I have a multi lnb setup that I work on mix of C band and ku.

 

[kittyhas1000legs]

I'll support what Dan & others said. Start out with a fixed Ku dish, preferably the one from SatelliteAV linked above. At 36" (90cm) I can get most of what I'd like to get out of it. It's aimed at 103W for NBC and a couple others, 97W for the international channels, and 91W for news feeds. I had it centered on 97W, but then I lost a few channels with the LNBF off-center for 103W. It HAD to have 103W centered to get all the NBC services. If I had the space, I'd be using my 1M dish to get that little bit of extra signal. Still, the GeosatPro dish is good to start with, and could be motorized in the future.

 

[spongella]

Psikic,

Welcome back to the hobby and to the forum, always nice to hear from someone setting up a new dish. You have received some valuable guidance from the folks here. Ku band will provide you with plenty of entertainment and the smaller dishes won't be as heavy a lift as the big ones. As was aptly stated, best to start with a stationary dish initially, then if you feel the need add a motor, or add LNBs to one dish, or set up a few stationary dishes if possible. Have fun with Ku FTA.

By the way there are SDR discussions in another forum on this site, check that out too. Some of us are into that hobby also.

Sponge

 

[Psikic]

Just checking in. I went with some of your advice and decided to stray on my own with some of it. Decided I could wait on a motor so I went ahead and started with that. Although I went ahead and purchased a combo C/Ku LNB, I will stick with just Ku for now until I am confident in the install.

Here is what I ended up getting. Installed now: GEOSATPro 90cm (36") dish that comes with GEOSATpro SL1PLL. A STAB HH90 motor. A VMP FRM-200 non-penetrating roof mount, which I put on the ground and loaded with 16 concrete blocks. X2 M1 HD receiver. To install later: A Titanium Satellite CK1S Combo C/Ku LNB which I will replace the SL1PLL with someday.

Working in the short hours between the time I get home from work and it gets dark, I set up the mount and put the dish on it Monday evening. Then last night (Tuesday) I made my first attempt to align the dish. Unfortunately there are a lot of birds near the top of the arc. Not knowing what bird I was seeing, I aligned to an unknown satellite which I cannot identify. Running out of daylight, I went inside and did a blind scan on the whole arc to see what came up. Apparently I am about 3 degrees off in Azimuth, as near the end of the scan it found a TP and channel on Intelsat 23 (53W) which it thought it was scanning Intelsat 1R (50W). Was trying to originally lock Galaxy 25 at (93.1W) but I think I found something near 90W between Galaxy 28 and Galaxy 17. There were several channels running the same Mariner training videos, currently about Ebola. Tonight I am going to go home and adjust the dish about 3 degrees and see if I can finally lock Galaxy 25. Would appreciate a suggestion for a hot transponder to lock to on that satellite.

 

[Psikic]

With more research, the feeds I was locking onto when I thought I had Galaxy 25 were videos from VideoTel Maritime e-Learning. http://videotel.com/ Any idea which satellite this was?

 

[Christopher Cromwell]

With more research, the feeds I was locking onto when I thought I had Galaxy 25 were videos from VideoTel Maritime e-Learning. http://videotel.com/ Any idea which satellite this was?

No idea, if I was to catch it, I would have guessed it was a one time Wild Feed for some company or Cable Company headend to broadcast later.
If you go to Sathint.com and click for North America, you can see the more updated satellite positions, channel listings, and Transponder Info that you can enter into your receiver to help you get the signal your searching for. You can also see what's scrambled and what's in the clear. I don't remember if there was anything much on Galaxy 25 to watch, but a blind scan will tell you for sure. You can try: 11915 H 4350 which is the DOJ Channel, it's scrambled however. Or try: 11890 H 3000
11895 H 3010
11906 H 5899 all of which are scrambled too, but you should at least get a signal to lock on to for Galaxy 25. There was one other channel on Galaxy 25: Azteca Trece 12120 V 4380
12126 V 2220 but I think these are gone now.

I do know that Galaxy 19 at 97W and SES 3 at 103W are two of the more popular ones with the most interesting channels.

 

[Christopher Cromwell]

Are you able to have the receiver and TV outside while searching for Galaxy 25? That's what I had to do when I set up my motorized Ku Dish for the first time. I borrowed an older TV to place on the roof to help me align my dish to 85W which was my true south satellite and worked from there.

 

[danristheman]

Psikic if they are broadcasting on a certain satellite and if its ok for you to watch it if they tell you its fine then send an email to them. On the other hand do not get in contact with any uplinkers or anyone broadcasting on these satellites that is how things get scrambled.

 

[Christopher Cromwell]

Psikic if they are broadcasting on a certain satellite and if its ok for you to watch it if they tell you its fine then send an email to them.

Ummmm.......No. Just still DON'T!

Psikic was merely trying to figure out what satellite he was on, NOT to figure out how to best send a 'Thinking Of You E-Card' to the broadcaster overseas.

If sending anything in the slightest might cause you to think that a broadcaster or uplinker could scramble, they probably just will! That's the thinking I always follow, NHK World might maybe be the one exception.

What's wrong with being a 'Silent Observer' instead?

Yet another reminder: the vast majority of everything in the clear or otherwise we see off of a TV Satellite is still NOT FOR US TO USE! Those are NOT OUR SIGNALS! Those e-Learning programs Psikic saw are generally not meant for YOU to watch, but certain employees of ships and elsewhere in the ocean! This *not* global PBS! Those signals are only meant for broadcasters, cable companies and big corporations to use. We are only peeking in as a PRIVILEGE ONLY!! Why abuse that privilege with always sending everyone emails and gifts??! This is almost as clear as I can make it.

I might only have an AAS in Broadcasting, but I know better enough as to what is ours to watch and what isn't ours to watch.

I wouldn't care if a broadcaster or uplinker begged me to write them, I still wouldn't do it. What they don't know what I'm watching will not concern them. So just keep a low profile at all times instead, it's the best way to keep getting more TV signals in the clear to see in the future.

 

[Psikic]

I agree with you Christopher, I have no plans to contact the broadcaster and I do know better. Yes, I was just wondering if anyone was familiar with these feeds so I could determine what satellite I was locked to. I ran the frequencies of the transponders through sathint and lyngsat and only found satellites in Europe (between 0 and 70 degrees E). Since I know it is impossible to be picking those up, it had to be something else. I discovered that my mount was not entirely plumb, so it is likely I was locking onto something at an increased inclination. I've now fixed this and can't find these transponders anymore.

Yes I did have my receiver outside and was aiming by watching the screen. Unfortunately I also think I made the rookie mistake of watching signal strength, and not focusing on signal quality. I am going to try again this weekend to get it aimed, although I have had fun this week watching the couple dozen or so channels I have been lucky to get not being completely on the arc, by luck that some satellites happened to be aligned (even though I am pointing at something different than what I think). I thought the general consensus was that I was supposed to be aligning the motorized dish with the closest to south satellite, but since there is not much there I will be trying with a nearby satellite which I know has a transponder I have already received. Though since I can pick up NHK World in HD ok with just a few glitches and can most of the time get ABC NewsOne to see a few live shots, I'm somewhat satisfied .

 

[Christopher Cromwell]

I agree with you Christopher, I have no plans to contact the broadcaster and I do know better.

Excellent!! Good!!! :-D Dan's invitations to trouble oftentimes cause me to have a very BAD tension headache that won't go away!! I've invested well over a thousand dollars or two with my setup! :-(
Don't we have more than enough channels scrambled already without bugging the poor unknown private broadcaster with emails?? (Sigh.......)

But anyways.......
Yes! On a motorized setup, you are supposed to align the whole motorized dish unit to your most true south satellite in order for your dish to track the satellite arc correctly.
If you go to dishpointer.com and enter your mailing street address in the search bar, and select your motor model from the drop down menu below, it should tell you what your true south coordinates are, as well as what coordinates to set your motor and dish together. You would enter your current location coordinates into the receiver USALS Menu Settings. My true south satellite is 85W so I aligned my motorized Ku Band Dish to that. I had to go to Sathint.com for several transponders off 85W to enter into the receiver to help get a signal. If one transponder didn't work, I tried another one. Make sure your motor latitude or motor elevation is set as the same latitude as shown on Dishpointer for your address location. If Dishpointer says to set your Dish Elevation to 24 degrees or whatever, set it to that, and of course your LNB Skew at 0. Try to make sure your receiver is set for your type of LNB, like 'Universal' if you have the Orbital Tracker one like me.

From those true southern coordinates at your location, pick the closest satellite you can receive, have the receiver run the motor towards that satellite position and try to get the best Quality Signal that you can on your TV screen by lifting up some and turning the entire motor/dish assembly back and forth on the pole; you want your motor mounting brackets loose enough on the pole for the whole thing to turn freely for alignment. It may take a few good seconds for the signal to register so take your time. But once the correct signal comes in strong, try to keep the whole thing steady with one arm and snug up the bolts to the pole with the other arm. Don't lock down the bolts until your positive you have the correct satellite and the receiver is tracking the arc well enough.

I jumped into FTA by setting up my first motorized Ku Band Dish in one weekend all by myself! I'm confident that you are very talented to accomplish the very same thing! You are almost just about there, just need a little extra time to get the alignment sorted out. I hope this helps! :-D

 

[Christopher Cromwell]

When or even IF I do write to NHK World, I tell them I watch their signals from my local cable provider they have on their drop down provider list. They won't know any different about how I really get it!

Silence is GOLDEN with FTA!