NEW 921s

[Seadoo]

My supplier told me he had a 921 for me. He assured me it had been reworked with the problems corrected. When I received it, it had software version L052 and gave me most of the problems indicated in these forums. He promised to ship me another one. Just a flag for those of you getting 921s, if you have a software version in the L052 range ( I believe current version is L182) you probably will have problems since the hardware fixes probably havent been done.

In the short time it did work I set output to 1080i to view hd channel, however when I switch to a sd channel the output looked terrible. I am sure that somewhere in all these threads there is an explanation of the best way to switch between hd and sd without having to reset the output each time. I looked in manual and it was not clear to me best way to do this. Do I simply have to go out of the svideo and hook into another non hd input on my tv? Would appreciate some help.

 

[mwgiii]

The 921 should have downloaded the latest software automatically.

 

[A_Noland]

And your SD will look like any other receiver. I find that the SD up converted to 1080i does look better than off the s-video outputs. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Seadoo]

Problem was that it didnt down software automatically. The tech rep said that it was so screwed up it couldn't.

NOLAN: On the SD....is that an issue with my tv. I mean the picture coming in on the component into Input 1 - HD when it was HD look good....but as soon I switch channels to a sd in looked like crap.

 

[TheForce]

S-Video will be restricted to about 486 active scan lines which on a large screen can be quite coarse. The minimum you will see on a RGB or Component out from SD signal will be 540Progressive lines. The more lines the more continuous the image is on an analog monitor. On a digital monitor we see pixels. The higher the resolution output the smaller the pixels. Most cost effective digitals today max out at 720 vertical and 1280 horizontal pixels. A few have been introduced that go all the way to 1980 horizontal pixels. Some analog FPTV monitors can actually resolve higher than 1800 lines such as the G90 but according to actual tests by Sony when that monitor is pushed to these limits, the image is small and very dim.

I agree that the 921 should grab the latest software, L182. However, this may require a powercord reset to force it. The process is, as I recall:
Install the 921 and do the satellite check switch to get the tuners setup and dishes aligned for good signal. Then shut it off.
Now pull the plug and then reconnect it. Let if come on , about 5-7 minuters. Tune to channel 101 and you should see the FYI picture. Now power switch (Standby mode) for about 2 hours to allow plenty of time to get the download. Leave the 921 in standby during this time. Best to just go away for a few hours and leave the 921 do it's thing in standby mode. When you return, power up the 921 from the switch and check the system info, you should see L182 as the new software version.

My friend at E* told me they have many people who call in with problems and the most common reason is these people are impatient. They wait for about 75% of the process to happen and then decide to help things along by forcing reset after reset.
We discussed that if people would stop sitting by watching the process and just go do something else for a couple of hours, the 921's would work on their own, download the software in a couple of hours and be done. All my software downloads are done without my interferrence and I have never had a problem, but then I can be a very patient person.

 

[rad]

Wasn't there also a requirement that a 921 have both DBS connections connected to the dish to allow for the software download?

 

[BobMurdoch]

yes. LO52 is the version that mine came with back in Jan. Hook everything up and then shut it down. Mine started the download and was done about 40 minutes later....

 

[Seadoo]

D. Landis:

Thanks for input on download. I was giving up because the CSR told me it wouldn't work and I needed to quit. Ill try that tonight.

STill unsure on what procedure I need to do after setting output to 1080i to get better picture on sd.

 

[Mark_AR]

STill unsure on what procedure I need to do after setting output to 1080i to get better picture on sd.

SD channels will look fuzzy/blurry compared to HD. You may want to adjust your TV. Avia or Digital Video Essentials are both good calibration DVD's to get your picture close to what it should be. Turn down contrast/brightness and move sharpness to mid.

In order of picture quality, you should hook your TV to the following if it has these inputs:

High Definition hook-ups
DVI - Offers the best PQ
Component - 3 cables = 1 picture (Red, Green, Blue) Supplied with my 921

You can't watch Hi def and/or SD outputs at the same time. You can switch modes by hitting the HD/SD button on the remote.

Standard Def hook-ups

S-video - Cable comes with
Composite - Red/white/yellow

I don't know what else to advise you. Without seeing what your problem is, it is all guesswork.

 

[Seadoo]

Success

Don Landis:
I tried your suggestions and it worked. Turns out that Dish has specialist that are supposed to address 921 issues. I asked for an advanced tech for 921. The first CSR didnt know what I was talking about and put me on hold for 15 min (checked back every 5 to see that I was still there) but finally connected me with an advanced tech. She walked me through the start up again. The problem was as you expected....new software had only partially downloaded. Once software downloaded things worked, although I did have a freeze up when I was adding favorites and it won't add local channels as favorites yet.


My learning from all this is that Dish needs to have more instructions for first time users about the download procedures and how long they take. They include on top of the receiver tellling you that the dish wire is not active and it would be just as easy for them to tell you what to expect and how to do the first time install. Also they need to communicate with their CSRs about these advanced tech reps who handle 921 questions.

Once past this initial start up problem and the favorites freeze, I am cautiously optimistic about the 921. I have software L182 now. The advanced tech rep told me that adding OTA to favorities was a known bug that was to be addressed in a software download in a few weeks. I am still concerned about quality of SD signal.

Also HBOHD movie last night didnt look all that great (compared to Discovery or HDNET). I assume there are different levels of HD quality although can anybody tell me why ESPNHD looks so bad? It was very difficult to watch and I finally went back to SD ESPN.


MARK AR:

I guess what I am comparing the SD signal on the 921 to is my SD signal on my 501. I have gone through the AVIA calibration on my Hitachi 65S700 which should be similar to yours and still see a noticeable difference in signal quality. I have the HD coming in digital input 1 and the sd coming in on input 4 with s video and switch between the two for hd and sd.

 

[BobMurdoch]

Congrats on navigating the initial setup minefield. Things get MUCH easier from here on out......

HBO-HD is dependant on the movie for quality, Matrix Reloaded looked ammazing, whie someone else said Minority Report looked horrible. YMMV.

ESPN-HD uses some horrible stretching and upconverting to convert SD to HD. It looks great when they have an HD broadcast, but looks hrrible when dealing with SD content as you saw. SportsCenter is going to HD in June and more and more shows will go HD as the year goes on.

Discovery HD and HD Net are the best sources for HD content right now (especially when the use HD Video vs. film...). Have fun......

 

[AJF]

It sounds like the first 921 that Seadoo received recently did not have the hardware fixes. This is what promted the hold on the 921's. So why are there still units being delivered to customers without the fix??? How are you supposed to know if you have a receiver that has the hardware fix or not ?

 

[Seadoo]

Thanks for the input on ESPN. I guess I have not seen a true ESPN HD yet.

ALF:
Let me clarify that I now believe the 921 did have the fixes in hardware. The big problem was an unknowing tech rep who advised me that I didn't and told me to send unit back. Since that initial discuss, I have had great succes in asking for an advanced tech rep that specializes in 921. At first the CSRs want to try and answer your questions but it is obvious they have not been trained on what is going on and you are just wasting your time with them. Get the advanced guys if you can. I've talked with 3 so far and they are knowledgeable about the issues and from why I can tell are pretty honest about the shortcomings. I never did send my first unit back once I followed some of the leads in this thread. My problem was that I did not let the L182 software down load. I have been watching the 921 for a couple of days. The HD stuff looks great. I still have a problem with the SD stuff and am not sure it is not a problem with the combination of Hitachi S700 and the 921. The S700 upconverts to 540p or 1080i. My signal on SD is much better through the standard coax to my other TVs.

The list of problems I am having have been discussed before but I thought I start my own list to see how it compares with others.

1. Cannot add local HD channels to FAVORITES list
2. Cannot remove 101 and 883 from my FAVORITES list or even reset my favorites list.
3. Cannot record local HD on timer.
4. Lock up sometimes when I am trying to modify favorites list
5. Marginal picture quality on SD

 

[AJF]

Thanks for the rely Seadoo.
I'm expecting my name to come up on the waiting list soon and the last thing I want is to get a 921 that doesn't have the hardware fixes.

 

[K R Kimmel]

Seadoo's list

Here's my take on your list

1. Cannot add local HD channels to FAVORITES list

This is a known bug. I believe it popped up on L180. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

2. Cannot remove 101 and 883 from my FAVORITES list or even reset my favorites list.

Don't know about this one. I didn't have the problem when setting up my favorites lists but that was on a different version of the software.

3. Cannot record local HD on timer.

Apart from having to set the timers manually I haven't had a problem with this.

4. Lock up sometimes when I am trying to modify favorites list

I haven't encountered this.

5. Marginal picture quality on SD

Well, yes. But no more marginal than the SD picture quality of the other receiver (a 721) I have hooked up to my HDTV monitor.

 

[Seadoo]

Kimmel:

You know what is really curious is that even though I was not able to add locals to favorites list when I was on the HD list I created even though the locals did not show up on the guide, they did actually tune to then as I scroll channel up and down. Go figure.

The 101 and 883 occurred after I had disconnect the 921 to put a new power cord on it. When I re powered I had this bug. Have not tried to power down again to see if it was gone.

The advanced Tech rep said that not recording locals happened sometimes and another bug they were working on

 

[A_Noland]

Problem was that it didnt down software automatically. The tech rep said that it was so screwed up it couldn't.

NOLAN: On the SD....is that an issue with my tv. I mean the picture coming in on the component into Input 1 - HD when it was HD look good....but as soon I switch channels to a sd in looked like crap.

I have a 721 and a 921. Here is an example of what I mean by better. On Monday night I try watch the 4 hours of Stargate on Scifi. I am using a 65" mitsu CRT Big screen. I now watch it stretched from the 921 rather than the 721 because the color is better. The over compression is still a problem, but the colors are a little better off the component inputs. Off the 721 in s-Video the everyones cheeks are too red and the dark scenes are hard to see sometimes. On the 921 using the component video these problems aren't as noticeable. The over compression will be a problem no matter what receiver you watch it on.

 

[Seadoo]

DAY 4:

It is an adventure with 921.

When I got home neither the MENU or DVR buttons work. SYSTEM INFO button didnt work on 921 either. Solution complete power down and reset.

Tried to record OTA manually. Record channel I wasnt watching. Would not let me erase programs I record. It seemed like it was hung up in record mode. Could not play program I had recorded.

Will power down this pm and see if that resets it.

All in all picture on HD is great. SD picture still worse than my existing unit. Finally saw a true HD on ESPN. What a difference from their up converted stuff.

Not sorry I bought it yet. Looking at all this as an adventure. We'll see how I feel in a week.