Need Help With Dish Configuration

[stlfan]

Question about adding seperate dish

I have a question about receiving the 118.7 satellite feed........I currently have a dish 1000 that brings in a signal strength of 93 on most channels.....The lowest signal strength I receive on the 129 satellite is a 78.......I realize that a dish 1000+ is needed to receive the 118.7 feed.....After my initial install I had to have a technician return and move the placement of my dish about three feet in order to not have continuous pixelization......This process left a bracket / mount empty on the roof of my house........I was wondering if I could buy a separate dish and lnb (not thru Dish / online) to be used specifically for the 118.7 satellite........I hate taking the risk of having my dish 1000 replaced with a dish 1000+ and jeopordizing the signal strength I receive on the 129 satellite......It was a major issue with my technician to get the signal strength locked in (as mention before - it took two trips)........I know a local technician thru a local retailer who does some install work on the side who would be willing to install my dish.....I don't profess to be satellite savvy so this whole scenario may be totally hypothetical and unable to be done......Bottom line: Is there a way to have another dish installed and have it dedicated to the 118.7 satellite? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated......Thanks again!!!

 

[mdonnelly]

I think you'd be better off getting the plus dish, and use a single for 129.

 

[stlfan]

I think you'd be better off getting the plus dish, and use a single for 129.

What type of dish & lnb would need to be dedicated to the 129 satellite?? Also, would a particular switch or separator be needed?? As stated earlier..........I have a dish 1000 with a VIP622 receiver......

 

[SmityWhity]

stlfan,

After reading this thread, I did a quick search on your other posts and read a couple of them; however, I am still curious why you would need a 118.7 if the tech did not install it.

I believe last month you got a new HDTV, and recently had a Dish 1000 and ViP 622 installed. The Dish 1000 should provide all the satellites you need, unless your SD locals, HD locals, or an international package is on 118.7. If this is the case, it seems like Dish will replace the Dish 1000 with a Dish 1000+, or some other combination of dishes.

The Dish Network satellite signal at 118.7 is a FSS signal; but unlike typical FSS signals which uses linear polarity, it is using typical DBS circular polarity. Therefore, a typical FSS dish system used for free-to-air satellite programming would not work. If it would work, a second issue would be, it's not compatible with the other LNBF's you are using which are DishPro or DishPro Plus technology. So if you want 118.7, you need to get a Dish 500+ or 1000+.

Will it mount where the Dish 1000 was previously mounted. Maybe, but the Dish 500+/1000+ dish pan is larger and has 2 extra mounting arms. The foot is the same, the mast is same diameter - but longer; so if there is room to mount the 2 extra arms to resist wind, then it should work. If this location had line of sight issues, it may have a line of sight issue trying to receive 118.7.

If you would like a little more accurate answer, then respond with more info and someone will be more than happy to supply additional info.
- Zip Code or City you're located in, and/or the city whose locals you are trying to get
- Programming packages, HD Silver, locals, international package, etc...
- What type of Switch, if any, do you currently have

EDIT:
If you have a tech to install and want to buy one, then buy the Dish 500+, it comes with a small LNBF bracket for adding another LNBF to make it a Dish 1000+, that you can remove from your current Dish 1000.

Instead of getting it from Dish Network, you can buy it from at least these satellite retailers:
The DishStore: http://www.dishstore.net/index.php?cPath=69
Sadoun Satellite Sales: http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Order/Dishes/Dish-Network-Satellite-Dish.htm

Prices vary depending on options, plus shipping may or may not be included and varies according to location.

 

[stlfan]

A tech came out (stated he had never traveled to my area to do an install - over an 1.5 drive) last week to install the Dish 1000+ thru Dish but the line of sight was not there.......Some trees were going to have to be cut before the tech would be able to install the Dish 1000+.......I am wanting the 118.7 so that I can "move" to St Louis for my locals..........Instead of having a third mount on my house and jeopordizing my signal strength on the 129 satellite, I thought maybe I could leave the Dish 1000 in place and use my existing mount (original dish had to be moved over about three feet to keep signal strength / and alleviate pixelization) to have another dish installed to pick up my locals on the 118.7.......Objective is to try and keep existing dish in place (to keep 90+ signal strength on 129)and have the other dish for my locals........Being in a rural area means I'll probably get the same technician who did my original installation and had an extremely hard time locking in a good signal strength........Tech was pissed when he had to return a second time and move dish over..........Was just wondering if such could be done.....Thanks

 

[mdonnelly]

If you just wanted a single dish for 118.7, you'd need a single circular LNB with R/L polarity. Dish doesn't make such a thing, AFAIK.

For 129, most people seem to be using either a Dish 300 or a Dish 500, with a DP single or dual LNB, and either a DP34 or a DPP44 switch. In your case, a DPP44 since you would need four satellite inputs. If you're that worried about losing signal strength on 129, I'd have them install the plus dish for 110/118.7/119 in the old mount, and leave the existing dish where it is, just for 129. In that case, you'd have a DPP Twin left over, doing nothing.

 

[stlfan]

That would be ideal..........My only issue there is associated with cost......I can upgrade thru dish (which requires them taking the dish 1000 back) for about a 1/3 of what a dish 1000+ plus DPP44 costs........If your option will work I might have to consider..........

 

[SmityWhity]

Here's a list of the 4 satellite locations you will need:

(1) 119 -- For most of the standard programming & very very little HD
(2) 110 -- For rest of the standard programming & very very little HD
. . . . . . -- St Louis Standard Definition Locals are on Sat 110, TP 20, Spotbeam 19.
(3) 129 -- The majority of the HD programming (use either 129 or 61.5)
. . 61.5 -- The majority of the HD programming (use either 129 or 61.5)
(4) 118.7 -- St Louis High Definition Locals

Take a look at these two links:
-- http://ekb.dbstalk.com/E10spots/e10spots.pdf
-- http://ekb.dbstalk.com/E10spots/e10t29.gif
In the middle you will see an S19. This is the footprint for Spotbeam 19 which has transponder 20 on it. You must be in this footprint to receive the 9 local St Louis channels in Standard Definition. If you are not within this footprint, don't move unless you only want the 4 HD channels.

On 118.7, you will only receive 4 local St Louis channels in High Definition (ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX).

Requirements:
1. With a Dish 1000 with a DPP Twin LNBF, you do not need a switch to run 2 receivers (upto 4 tuners for DPP installations). The Dish 1000 only provides 3 locations - 119/110/129.

2. A DP-34 switch will allow you to hook up 3 satellites and feed 4 receivers. But a dual tuner receiver would require 2 cable runs.

3. A DPP-44 switch will allow you to hook up 4 satellites and feed 4 receivers. But a dual tuner receiver, such as the ViP 622, only needs one cable to the receiver.

4. So you are going to need either of the following:
(a) A Dish 500+ for 119/118.7/110, a Dish 500 for 129 or 61.5, and a DPP-44; or
(b) A Dish 1000+ for 119/118.7/110/129, and a DPP-44.

Considerations:
(1) Will Dish replace your Dish 1000 with a Dish 1000+ or even a Dish 500+.
(2) In ref to the original location of the Dish 1000, which satellite(s) did not have a clear line of sight?
(3) Since the new location has line of sight to 110, 119, and 129, I would say it also has a line of sight to 118.7.

Opinions:
(1) Let the tech remove the Dish 1000 and replace it with a Dish 1000+. If the mast is plumb, the skew is set right (and not bent), then it will not take very long to get the signals. If you really feel the tech will end up leaving without a signal, then mark the dish and mast with a black marker so that you can slide the Dish 1000 back on the mast.

(2) If the 129 ends up with a low signal, then consider using either a Dish 1000 or Dish 500 with a single DP Dual LNBF, and have it peaked for either 61.5 or 129. Either satellite will give you the HD Package you subscribe to.

SW
ps - I'll respond to your PM tomorrow.

 

[rcdallas]

I wouldn't worry about about the signal strength on your 129 satellite with the plus dish. I have worked with plenty of them and have not had a problem at all getting high signals across the board - 119/110/129/118.

 

[stlfan]

Here's a list of the 4 satellite locations you will need:

(1) 119 -- For most of the standard programming & very very little HD
(2) 110 -- For rest of the standard programming & very very little HD
. . . . . . -- St Louis Standard Definition Locals are on Sat 110, TP 20, Spotbeam 19.
(3) 129 -- The majority of the HD programming (use either 129 or 61.5)
. . 61.5 -- The majority of the HD programming (use either 129 or 61.5)
(4) 118.7 -- St Louis High Definition Locals

Take a look at these two links:
-- http://ekb.dbstalk.com/E10spots/e10spots.pdf
-- http://ekb.dbstalk.com/E10spots/e10t29.gif
In the middle you will see an S19. This is the footprint for Spotbeam 19 which has transponder 20 on it. You must be in this footprint to receive the 9 local St Louis channels in Standard Definition. If you are not within this footprint, don't move unless you only want the 4 HD channels.

On 118.7, you will only receive 4 local St Louis channels in High Definition (ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX).

Requirements:
1. With a Dish 1000 with a DPP Twin LNBF, you do not need a switch to run 2 receivers (upto 4 tuners for DPP installations). The Dish 1000 only provides 3 locations - 119/110/129.

2. A DP-34 switch will allow you to hook up 3 satellites and feed 4 receivers. But a dual tuner receiver would require 2 cable runs.

3. A DPP-44 switch will allow you to hook up 4 satellites and feed 4 receivers. But a dual tuner receiver, such as the ViP 622, only needs one cable to the receiver.

4. So you are going to need either of the following:
(a) A Dish 500+ for 119/118.7/110, a Dish 500 for 129 or 61.5, and a DPP-44; or
(b) A Dish 1000+ for 119/118.7/110/129, and a DPP-44.

Considerations:
(1) Will Dish replace your Dish 1000 with a Dish 1000+ or even a Dish 500+.
(2) In ref to the original location of the Dish 1000, which satellite(s) did not have a clear line of sight?
(3) Since the new location has line of sight to 110, 119, and 129, I would say it also has a line of sight to 118.7.

Opinions:
(1) Let the tech remove the Dish 1000 and replace it with a Dish 1000+. If the mast is plumb, the skew is set right (and not bent), then it will not take very long to get the signals. If you really feel the tech will end up leaving without a signal, then mark the dish and mast with a black marker so that you can slide the Dish 1000 back on the mast.

(2) If the 129 ends up with a low signal, then consider using either a Dish 1000 or Dish 500 with a single DP Dual LNBF, and have it peaked for either 61.5 or 129. Either satellite will give you the HD Package you subscribe to.

SW
ps - I'll respond to your PM tomorrow.

I guess my best option is to let try and make arrangements with Dish to replace my 1000 with a 1000+........The satellite I was having the most difficult time receiving was the 129 satellite (HD programming).......

I am currently waiting on a gentleman to come and cut down a couple of trees that the dish installer said would need to be cut before he could be authorized to install..........Maybe with the removal of these two trees it will allow for the technician to have an easier time in bringing in a good signal strength.......

I read in a previous post that since this dish requires (4) sats to be viewed that you have to cheat on one / two to get a good signal strength on all your sats.........I can't verify or deny this claim because I know very little about the installation process (as you can tell by my posts)........If that is correct, I'm not wanting my 129 satellite to be jeopordized with a low signal strength.

I was just trying to stay away from having a third mount (in case 1000+ can't be put in dish 1000 mount) put on a roof that is less than 7 months old.......If the dish 1000+ has to be mounted differently, then that would leave two vacant mounts on my roof line (eye sore).....

 

[stlfan]

I wouldn't worry about about the signal strength on your 129 satellite with the plus dish. I have worked with plenty of them and have not had a problem at all getting high signals across the board - 119/110/129/118.

My biggest concern is maintaining high signal stength......Your post provides some encouragement.......Glad to hear..........Thanks

 

[SmityWhity]

I read in a previous post that since this dish requires (4) sats to be viewed that you have to cheat on one / two to get a good signal strength on all your sats.........I can't verify or deny this claim because I know very little about the installation process (as you can tell by my posts)........If that is correct, I'm not wanting my 129 satellite to be jeopordized with a low signal strength.

You could take 3 dishes, each 12 foot in diameter, and set them up to get a stronger signal on each bird than what the Dish 1000 will provide, but its not necessary. However, you can also take a smaller Dish 500 and point it to 129 and get a better signal in some cases. The Satellite at 129 is said to have technical issues and is not expected to remain in the sky for its original intended life. If the transponders you would be receiving are a little weak, then maybe you would want to slightly adjust the dish in favor of 129 than for 110. It all depends on your location and the satellite.

The same thing with the Dish 1000+. But the 500+/1000+ dish pan is bigger than the 1000 pan, so it should improve signal strength. And 118.7 was added in the middle of the 1000+. So if you had suitable or very good signal on the Dish 1000, I believe you will have at least the same signal on the Dish 1000+.

As RCDallas said, I don't think you'll have a problem. Since you are receiving good signals on 110/119/129, you should not have a problem receiving 118.7 from the same mount. However, on the first mount, if you were receiving good signals on 110 and 119, then you should be able to pick up 110/118.7/119 using a Dish 500+. Then after you cut the trees down, you could remove the 129 LNBF from the Dish 1000 and put it on the Dish 500+ to have just one dish on the roof.

 

[stlfan]

Thanks for the information.......You have been a tremendous help........Very much appreciated......

 

[rcdallas]

Be careful using a dish 500/1000 mount. Really you'd want to use the 500+ as it is reinforced. The foot plates are all the same, so you should be fine.

Definately put the struts on into something solid, more wind load.

All you do is tune on the 119, tighten everything down, then peak on the 118- when your peaking raise the elevation slightly so your signal drops a bit, then tighten the elevation hardware. Reason being is when you let go the extra weight of the LNB will compensate.

It's *critical* the mast be dead plumb in order for your 118.7 to yield high signals.

 

[stlfan]

Is it that difficult to receive high signals on the 118.7?? I'm planning on letting the installer place the 1000+ in the same foot plate as my 1000?? Is this feasible??

You mentioned using the 500+........I don't have such......Am I misunderstanding something??

Also unclear on struts???

My current configuration on my roof is the following: dish 1000 already mounted (will return back to dish upon having 1000+ installed).......an empty foot plate where the original dish had to be moved over about 5ft.....

Thanks for your advice on the extra weight of the LNB......

Another quick question.....I have read that the DPP44 has a power inserter.......Is this something that is plugged into the receiver or an outlet.........Indoor or outdoor outlet?????

 

[webbydude]

The only real difference between a 500+ and a 1000+ is the inclusion of the 129 orbital slot.

As I mentioned in your other thread, as well as what Rcdallas stated, you can use the existing location that your current D1000 is utilizing. No matter what, strut mounts added to the existing mast are crucial (and in my opinion, necessary).

The power inserter is what actually powers up the DPP44 switch; all a switch does is combine all your orbital locations and places them into single feed for a receiver (for lack of a better term -- a combiner, of sorts). Ideally, I either place the power inserter near the switch...or next to one of the receivers. It requires a constant 110/120 VAC.

EDIT: I just now saw your "strut" question. Struts...AKA mast stabilizers...add a certain amount of stability to a dish by adding two "legs" to the existing mast. Try visualizing a tri-pod, with the center "leg" being the dish mast.

 

[SmityWhity]

Struts or mast stabilizers --- I should have used those terms earlier instead of "arms".

Although the DPP44 can be mounted indoors or outdoors, the power inserter is indoor only. The power inserter feeds power to the DPP44 via a coax cable going into receiver port 1.

As webbydude said, there is no difference between a 500+ and a 1000+, except for one DP Dual LNBF. The 500+ even comes with the extra bracket to add the extra LNBF to upgrade it to a 1000+.

Here are some links with pictures. Maybe someone has one with the struts installed.

(1) Sadoun Satellite: http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Dishnetwork/Dishes/Dish-1000-Plus-Dish1000Plus.htm

(2) Dish Network: http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/techequiDish-1000.shtml
Click on Dish 1000+, then click on Images.
And their Dish 500+ link: http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/techequiDish500.shtml