Need Help / Advice - How do you Fine Tune 1 meter Fortec Star Dish Elevation

[jsattv]

Went back up on the roof again yesterday with TV and Sat Receiver, when Fortec Dish Sat reception wasn't working at all. Dish didn't look even when aimed for 97.0W & discovered that tracking was off about 12 degrees from zero, so went into "Usals" and pressed "Go to Reference" and the Stab HH120 Motor zeroed itself. Made sure all cables to LNB had some slack & added more slack to prevent future problems.

How to Fine Tune 1 meter Fortec Star Dish?
Tried to fine tune the 1 meter - (40 inch) Fortec Star dish specifically for best Q signalling on Tp 11996 on Satellite 97.0W (Russia Today) and had major problems. I could NOT get Q signalling any better than 50% when undoing then re-tightening the 2 elevation Bolts shown on Sadoun web site: http://sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Fortec-Star/Dishes/100cm-Motorized-dish-2.jpg Tried for over an hour and a half to fine tune, but the dish is so heavy and awkward - (for one person), that extreme fine tuning seems almost impossible! After every time I tightened it back down, if I slightly tilted the dish up or down, I could get Q level on 11996 to go as high as 74%. Finally gave up and settled for Q of 40 to 50 %.

Question: Does anyone know how this 1 meter Dish can be fine tuned? We are talking about 1/4 of an inch increments here. Would some kind of washers on the 2 Elevation Bolts help? Or is it just a hit and miss thing that likely needs 2 people to fine tune this big dish? Replies would be very much appreciated.

 

[bill190]

Yes very fine adjustments are needed.

I added a "turnbuckle" to my small dish. Now I can losen the elevation bolts and use just the turnbuckle to make adjustments. The final adjustment can be a quarter turn of the turnbuckle!

Actually everything about adjusting a dish with a positioner requires extreme precision.

There are three adjustments, moving the whole works on the pole, arc adjustment, and dish elevation which goes hand in hand with the arc adjustment.

I wish all three of these adjustments had precise "scales" or markings. And precise adjustment screws, turnbuckles, etc. for each adjustment. It would make things a whole lot easier...

Picture of a turnbuckle...
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/turnbuckle.jpg

 

[jsattv]

Thanks for the reply bill190, sounds great, but just how or where would you hook up, or apply the "Turnbuckle" to adjust Elevation on a motorized 1 meter Fortec Star Dish - as per the Sadoun 1 Meter Fortec Star Dish picture I have shown?

 

[bill190]

...how or where would you hook up, or apply the "Turnbuckle" to adjust Elevation...

This is a "handyman" - good at working with tools - having the right tools - kind of thing.

I've seen several different motorized dish set-ups and for each case, the turnbuckle would need to be installed differently.

So a bit of ingenuity, might need to drill holes, might need to have something welded, might need to add a bit of angle iron.

In my case, I was able to drill a hole in the positioner arm at the bottom and another hole in a square piece of metal on the back of the dish, found a turnbuckle the right size, then got bolts, nuts, and washers to attach the turnbuckle.

 

[jsattv]

This is a "handyman" - good at working with tools - having the right tools - kind of thing.

I've seen several different motorized dish set-ups and for each case, the turnbuckle would need to be installed differently.

So a bit of ingenuity, might need to drill holes, might need to have something welded, might need to add a bit of angle iron.

In my case, I was able to drill a hole in the positioner arm at the bottom and another hole in a square piece of metal on the back of the dish, found a turnbuckle the right size, then got bolts, nuts, and washers to attach the turnbuckle.

Thanks bill190, guess I'll visit Home Depot or a Hardware Store and try to figure out something.

 

[Anole]

a picture is worth . . .

I understand your general idea, but a picture is always good.
Show us what ya got.

There were some posts in the Primestar Dish on SG 2100 thread where DirtyShame used a long piece of all-thread (threaded rod)
Another member, Stogie5105, used a big bolt to get some fine tuning.
I'm still looking for a slop-free method to do the same thing, so all ideas are appreciated.

 

[jsattv]

Need Help / Advice - How do you Fine Tune 1 meter Fortec Star Dish Elevation - Pics

I understand your general idea, but a picture is always good.
Show us what ya got.

There were some posts in the Primestar Dish on SG 2100 thread where DirtyShame used a long piece of all-thread (threaded rod)
Another member, Stogie5105, used a big bolt to get some fine tuning.
I'm still looking for a slop-free method to do the same thing, so all ideas are appreciated.

Anole, here are some pics of the present setup. Could a Turnbuckle, a bracket, and screws do the trick.

 

[Anole]

I was hoping Turnbuckle-Bill would show us the beef.

Jsat - did you look at the pictures in those links above, and get any good ideas?

 

[jsattv]

Need Help / Advice - How do you Fine Tune 1 meter Fortec Star Dish Elevation - Pics

Anole, here are some pics of the present setup. Could a Turnbuckle, a bracket, and screws do the trick.

Sorry about that, but the pics didn't come thru so trying again. Any replies on fine tuning this setup would be appreciated.

 

[Anole]

first rate pix

The links I gave above are all based on the idea of pushing between the bottom of the dish (bracket) and something (the motor shaft) to raise the dish elevation.
My dish and downward-shaft motor are more suited to those ideas.
Your dish and upward-shaft motor are a whole 'nother animal.

I'd say if you could extend a plate about 2" wide (?) from the bolts that hold the elevation bracket to the motor shaft... upward a couple of inches....
And then tie a turnbuckle (to pull) between that plate and the vertical square tubing on the back of the dish...
...twisting the turnbuckle would pull back on the dish above its elevation pivot point, raising it to the sky.

That's just the first thing off the top of my head.
Hopefully Turnbuckle-Bill has a more mature idea.

Of course, with any of these ideas, you need the elevation somewhat snug but not tight, then do the leadscrew/turnbuckle adjust for best signal, then lock down the real holding hardware as a last step.

 

[bill190]

Looking at the above pictures, you would want a turnbuckle between the positioner arm and perhaps the square channel on the dish.

You would want a small turnbuckle. Turnbuckles have a fully extended "setting" and a fully contracted "setting" if you will. When you hold both ends of the turnbuckle and screw the center piece, the two ends get closer or further apart.

Ideally, you would want to find a turnbuckle which when it was at the half way point between fully extended and fully contracted (in the middle), it would be about the distance from the square channel on your dish to the positioner arm.

Then you could install it and screw it one way to go up more, or the opposite way to go down more.

So far as mounting it, I would *not* drill a hole in the positioner arm at the bottom there. There is probably a bolt inside and drilling a hole would weaken the bolt inside.

But all you have to do is attach the turnbuckle end to the positioner arm and/or mounting bracket.

You can use plastic tie wraps. You could use one end of a U bolt. You could use a hose clamp. You could attach an L shaped piece of metal onto one of those bolts back there.

So far as the square channel, you could drill a hole, or do one of the above or come up with your own idea.

You can also take a picture of the back side of your dish to a local hardware store. Find an older guy working there. Show him what you want to do. I'll bet he will have several ideas.

 

[jsattv]

Thanks for the reply Anole, but who is Turnbuckle - Bill? Is he a member, ie bill190? Will try to figure out something, thankx for your suggestions.

 

[Anole]

Jsat - Sorry.
Bill190 is the guy who came up with the turnbuckle idea.
I was just being silly and calling him Turnbuckle-Bill
...and I think it's at least as good a nickname as mine...
Careful, or we'll start calling you Doubting Thomas or something.


Bill - thanks for your comments.
Guess we were on about the same page.
Your additional ideas were most encouraging... I'm seeing the light.

Since the turnbuckle or leadscrew is only used during alignment and the regular hardware is locked down afterwards, any slop in the fine tuning adjustments are not such a show-stopper.
I just about croaked when I read your suggestion of lashing one on with a stretchy tie wrap, but you're quite right.
In the long run, it won't matter.

 

[Wescopc]

One thing that makes this type of dish hard to adjust is the lack of a pivot bolt. I would think about drilling a hole through the vertical rectangular tube to line up with the adjustment bracket. See picture. Then installing a snug fitting pivot bolt.

One would need to have very good alignment with the existing hole, so would need to carefully center a pilot hole. If you had a center find center punch it would help.
Bob

 

[Larry1]

From looking at your 6th or last picture, mount a piece of metal to extend up to the height of the upper dish cross brace from where the bracket mounts on the motor shaft. (or entend the motor shaft) Then a threaded rod from the cross brce to the new piece that extends up. With the threaded rod, you can fine tune the dish. You will need the pivot point as wescopc points out for your dish turns on a precise point. The two bolt pivot point without the bolt in the centre to pivot on makes the dish move around too much when adjusting the dish.

 

[Anole]

Oh, crap!
That thing wescopc circled in red is not a pivot pin/bolt?
I don't have that dish, and assumed from the pix it was!
No wonder it's so hard to adjust.

Think I'd put a little steel pin through there, and peen it over on both sides.
Wouldn't have to be larger than 1/8" inch, though bigger is fine.
Might find a bolt at a big hardware store, that's unthreaded near the head, to act as a shaft.
Stick some washers and a nyloc nut on it...?

Remind me to go get a big Primestar, and make my own mount, next time I feel the urge for large!

 

[jsattv]

Guys, thanks for all the terrific - great suggestions!

New Pivot Bolt OR Add a 14 inch Plate and TurnBuckle?
Yes, a Pivot Point - adding a new Pivot bolt may be the best way to go! I had discussed this today with my friend who is very handy on lots of repairs, and we had thought about bill190's (Turnbuckle bill's) suggestion of adding in a Turnbuckle. That is: drill 4 holes and attach a 14 inch metal plate over the existing 4 Motor Screws. Then at the top of the Vertical Bar on the Dish, undo one of the 2 screws and add in a small TurnBuckle between the New Plate and the Vertical Dish Bar. Went up and measured it tonight using a piece of cardboard as a template, BUT there was only about 3.5 inches clearance between the vertical Fortec Dish Bar - and the cardboard plate, so it would need to be a very small TurnBuckle after attaching a permanent (metal) plate. Do they make Turnbuckles that small??

But as mentioned the main problem with this dish is too much slop, or no possible fine tuning due to the weight of the Fortec Dish. Once you loosen off those 2 existing alignment bolts, its next to impossible to ultra fine tune this approx 30 pound Dish. It even seems to move a bit while in the process of tightening down the 2 Elevation Bolts. This is why adding in the Middle Pivot Point Bolt may be the best solution. So the idea here is that this new Pivot Bolt would give me more flexibility to adjust (fine tune) the Dish?? Wonder if it can be done while up on the Roof with a 1/2 inch power drill, and then insert new Pivot Bolt nuts and washers ??

 

[Anole]

in an ideal world . . .

I would prefer to do it on a drill press.
That would require removal and disassembly of the antenna, and much of the mount.
If your friend is a very good mechanical guy, I'd go with his gut-feel.
However, if he's not, do it once the right way, and you'll be happy.
Alignment of the holes is a bit more delicate than I'd want to do by hand, up on a roof.

As to the length of the plate and turnbuckle, don't make the plate so long.
And do allow the turnbuckle to be installed at an angle between the square dish support tube and the plate.
That gives more access to, and length for the turnbuckle.


ALTERNATELY, poke a square hole through that square-tube upright.
Install a long carriage bolt with the rounded head between the tube and the back of the dish.
The square hole and the square shoulder under the head, prevent the bolt from rotating.
Run a nut down the bolt to within a 1/16th inch of being snug.
Put on a 2nd jam nut to hold the first one in place, and to keep the bolt from turning.
The bolt should go through a sloppy-sized hole in that bracket you built/installed above.
Given what you said about the spacing from square tube to your bracket, this 1/4-20 bolt might need to be 4" long.

Now, attach a large washer and nut to the bolt on the back side of the plate.
To raise the dish elevation via fine tuning, tighten this last nut on the carriage bolt with a wrench.
Once the correct elevation is tuned in, tighten the original two elevation bolts, making sure the whole thing doesn't slip.

This assumes you installed a proper pivot pin or bolt, of course.

Now , don't make me go do a drawing or picture of this idea.
I don't have that dish!

 

[bill190]

...Bill190 is the guy who came up with the turnbuckle idea.
I was just being silly and calling him Turnbuckle-Bill...

I told a couple of my friends they are calling me "Turnbuckle-Bill" on the internet. They seemed to like the name. These guys also assign me nicknames (when we are playing games and I win), but being as this is a family forum, I will not repeat them!

 

[Anole]

Well, I actually gamed as "Sir Anole", but I didn't want to be too ostentatious .

That was a long time ago.
Now, I just have a SETI team called: The Knights Who Say Ni!
...who've been around for 8+ years...
(our statistics site)

...which seems to be down right now...