My New FTA System is on the Way...Questions about SG2100 Alignment & USALS

[IA6Newspath]

My New FTA System is on the Way...A Few Setup and Dish Alignment Questions

Hi all.

Well, after thinking about buying an FTA system for the last couple of months, I finally decided to place an order this morning for an FTA system. Based on the many excellent product reviews and recommendations on this message board, I decided to go with the Pansat 3500SD, a Winegard DS-2076 76cm dish, Xtreme II 0.3 NF LNBF, and an SG2100 motor. I also picked up a T-Pod dish stand on eBay. The manufacturer is selling these stands brand new through eBay (Buy it Now) for a few dollars less than ordering directly from their website (www.dishstand.com). I want to keep my dish setup as discrete and low profile as possible and don't plan on mounting the dish permanently, so the T-Pod looks like a great solution for a temporary setup that can easily be removed and set up, although I do realize that I'll need to re-align the dish and motor each time I set it up the system. Hopefully everything will arrive within the next week so that I can start setting it up and experimenting.

Anyway, as I look ahead to setting up my system, I'm anticipating that the most time will be spent trying to figure out a good method for properly aligning my dish and motor to true south. Here are a few of the steps that I plan on taking.

-Mount the mast on the T-Pod, and use a level to make sure that the pole is exactly vertical to the ground.

-Install my LNBF and make sure that the alignment guide line is properly aligned with the top of the LNB mount on the dish.

-Mount the motor to the pole and the dish to the motor, keeping the motor and the dish aligned with the front of the T-Pod in the process, and based on my latitude, use a chart or software calculations to determine elevation settings and make the proper elevation adjustments on the dish and motor mounts.

-Rotate the T-Pod with the entire assembly mounted on it as necessary until the motor/dish is aimed at true south. How I'm going to align the assembly to true south by using a compass near the metal stand and dish remains to be seen, but I'm tinkering with a couple of ideas.

Assuming that I'm at the stage where the dish and motor are aligned to true south, I'm now at the point of setup where I'm a little unsure. My longitude is -86.2 degrees, so I really don't have a true south satellite. AMC 2 is at 85 deg. W (altough it has little if any FTA anyway) and AMC 3 is at 87 deg. W...both of which are about a degree away from my longitude of -86.2 degrees. Do I need to have a true south satellite with an FTA signal for optimal peaking of the motor, or will the receiver/USALS be able to achieve proper satellite positioning assuming that I properly aligned my dish to true south in the first place? I'm not terribly familiar yet with USALS positioning, or exactly what information is entered into the receiver to help with proper USALS positioning of the dish. That said, what information can I enter into the receiver (latitude and longitude I assume?), and will USALS consequently be able to take that information and move the dish to any desired satellite (assuming that the true south azimuth is corretly aligned and that the dish is correctly pointed at true south)?

Also, assuming that this is the case and I move the dish to AMC 3 and need to make fine adjustments to peak the signal, do I perform this peaking by physically adjusting the dish and motor assembly, or can I jog the dish position through a function in the receiver interface?

If there is, in fact, a way of jogging the motor for peaking a satellite, is it then possible to re-define the motor's memory position for a satellite?

Finally, do motors like the SG2100 have separate axes of movement for azimuth and elevation, or is it just a single axis of movement that adjusts azimuth, elevation, and polarity all at once? If the latter is the case, is this why it's so important to align a dish/motor assembly to true south as opposed to a location or satellite a distance away from true south, as this would throw off the dish's path of motion in following the Clarke Belt?

Ideally, what would probably be best for me at this point is some kind of description, FAQ, or tutorial about initially calibrating a dish and motor using USALS. I haven't been able to find such a post or description yet here in this forum, although I'll keep on searching. Or, if anyone knows of a particular thread or website that covers this topic in depth, any reccomendations would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Mr Tony]

Finally, do motors like the SG2100 have separate axes of movement for azimuth and elevation, or is it just a single axis of movement that adjusts azimuth, elevation, and polarity all at once? If the latter is the case, is this why it's so important to align a dish/motor assembly to true south as opposed to a location or satellite a distance away from true south, as this would throw off the dish's path of motion in following the Clarke Belt?

the latter. The motor adjusts azimuth, elevation and skew when it moves

My longitude is -86.2 degrees, so I really don't have a true south satellite. AMC 2 is at 85 deg. W (altough it has little if any FTA anyway) and AMC 3 is at 87 deg. W...both of which are about a degree away from my longitude of -86.2 degrees. Do I need to have a true south satellite with an FTA signal for optimal peaking of the motor, or will the receiver/USALS be able to achieve proper satellite positioning assuming that I properly aligned my dish to true south in the first place? I'm not terribly familiar yet with USALS positioning, or exactly what information is entered into the receiver to help with proper USALS positioning of the dish. That said, what information can I enter into the receiver (latitude and longitude I assume?), and will USALS consequently be able to take that information and move the dish to any desired satellite (assuming that the true south azimuth is corretly aligned and that the dish is correctly pointed at true south)?

what you can do is input your latitude/longitude in the reciever and tell the motor to move to 87W then peak the dish. if you aim at 87W without moving the motor off 0 (sicne you're longitude is almost a degree off) that would throw your whole arc off.
(I'm at 93.5 so I know the feeling)

 

[PSB]

The SG2100 moves horizontally only, it follows the Clarke Belt by setting the elevation the same as your latitude!


Here is a FAQ thread with a few great links that will really help with the setup of the SG2100

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=50257

 

[SatelliteAV]

Before you install a motor, I would suggest that you aim the dish at a satellite such as IA5 and familiarize yourself with the operation of the receiver. Scan in a few channels and verify that your equipment is working. You probably will need to reconstruct the portable base (made to fit a Dish Network or DirecTV foot plate) to fit the larger foot plate of the DS2076. Be sure to weight this base with sandbags or blocks. The first stiff breeze will upset this base with its small footprint.

Setting the mast to perfectly vertical is the most critical!!!! Once you have set the mast plumb and level, set the motor mount latitude scale to match the installation site latitude and set the dish elevation angle to an angle between 20 and 30 degrees (determined by the chart in the motor manual). Aim the dish and motor towards true south compass reading (magnetic south pls or minus your magnetic declination). Don't get to concerned about this true south thing .... it's just to get your dish headed in approximately the right direction. Set the LNBF rotation (SKEW) to zero. The motor will set the LNBF SKEW as it rotates to the satellite position.

Next input your Longitude and Latitude into the USALS menu of the receiver and save the setting. The dish will rotate into the correct motor setting then stop. Next go into one of the preprogrammed channels and activate the signal feature to display signal strength and quality or select an active TP of the satellite in the installation menu (if IA-5 try 12.177GHz) . Slowly pan the motor on the mast left or right up to 10 or 15 degrees of estimated location of the satellite. If no quality appears, increase the dish elevation angle by a degree and sweep again .... repeat .... repeat .... repeat as many times until you have a quality reading and peaked for highest quality reading (not signal level). Never use the motor to nudge the position of the dish or the DiSEqC 1.2 mode at this time or your USALS aiming will not be correct and the motor will not track the arc of satellites.

Next enter a second satellite. Try G10R KU and set up your LNB type, activate USALS and select and active TP (11.800GHz). The dish will move to the motor position for G10R. You should have a quality reading, but if not or the quality is low make slight adjustments by panning of the motor on the post and/or dish elevation angle. Once you have quality on this TP, scan the satellite to program channels that you can return to monitor the signal quality. Return to IA5 and check the signal quality. If it has dropped, make minute adjustments to peak.

Return to G10R and check the quality on those channels. You may have to go between several satellites a few times to peak the quality to be high on all at the same time. Careful initial installation will result in less frustration the next time you bring the portable dish out and level the base and point at one satellite. All should track correctly if you have made sure the post is PERFECTLY level!!!

 

[digiblur]

Curious why you didn't go with a 90cm instead of the 76cm?

 

[SatAdam]

This is what I am planning on doing to align my dish.

I will set up USALS, tell it to move to my true south, then align the dish for peak signal.

I think it will work

 

[IA6Newspath]

Question about Receiver Blind Scan & Signal Strength Meters

I just finished reading through a couple of recent threads regarding dish alignment--a topic which is of particular interest to me since my new FTA gear is on the way. In reading through some of the threads, I learned quite a bit about receiver signal strength meters and blind scanning, and I'd like to confirm that I'm correctly understanding some of the topics that have been discussed.

First, I have a general question about signal strength meters on FTA receivers (should it matter, the receiver I've ordered is a Pansat 3500SD). Although I've ordered a motor for my dish, I plan on starting out by first experimenting with a stationary dish and making sure that I have a feel for aligning the dish to true south and satellites very near my true south (for me, this would be AMC 3). I was planning on first setting the dish elevation and aligning the azimuth to true south, then moving the dish slightly to hit AMC 3, all the while using the signal strengh meter of my Pansat 3500 as a guide to determine signal strength and assist with peaking. I wasn't originally planning on entering any specific D/L frequency or SR for a carrier on AMC 3, however do I now understand correctly that I would need to enter the D/L frequency, polarity, and SR for a known constant carrier on the satellite for which I'm trying to peak in order to activate the signal strengh meter? In other words, does the signal strength meter reflect specifically the strengh of a signal only at the entered frequency, polarity, and SR, as opposed to a handheld analong satellite meter that indicates signal strengh if there is any satellite reception (regardless of satellite or frequency) detected?

If the signal strengh meter does, in fact, only respond to signal strength for the entered parameters, then is this why blind scan is considered to be such a useful feature when initially aligning a dish? In other words, if you think you've aligned a dish to a particular bird but don't know off hand the parameters for any carriers on the particular satellite, you can run a blind scan, get a list of detected channels/services, then compare the detected channels to a list of known carriers on the satellite. Additionally, once the receiver has compiled a list of channels, it's then possible to peak on the satellite, as the receiver has locked onto a channel and the signal strength meter is now active. I guess I'm just trying to make sure that I understand the usefulness of blind scan in initially aligning and tweaking the position of a dish.

Finally, are receivers capable of detecting the actual name of the satellite on which they're locked when a blind scan is run, or do they simply compile a list of the detected channels? The reason I ask is that some receivers appear to have a field in which the user can specify a satellite along with D/L, polarity, and SR information, but I'm curious as to whether this setting must be configured properly in order to receive a signal from any given satellite, or is the manual satellite name selection is simply for adding a satellite name association to the channel list?

Thanks!

 

[PSB]

You seem to have a grasp of everything above.

On the final note, the receiver does not know what satellite it is on and its up to you to use a named satellite from your list.
It will however log channel names (of a sort) as it blind scans.

As you noted some receivers let you enter a known LIVE DFreq / SR / POL that just makes life easier and gives you something to aim the dish.

 

[IA6Newspath]

As you noted some receivers let you enter a known LIVE DFreq / SR / POL that just makes life easier and gives you something to aim the dish.

Thanks for the fast reply. Does anyone know off hand whether the Pansat 3500SD alllows the entry of a "Live" D/L frequency, SR, and polarity as opposed to having to run a blind scan for the receiver to lock on a signal? If I'm shooting for AMC 3, for example, it would be much easier to first enter a known D/L frequency, SR, and polarity, position the dish by looking for the receiver to lock onto the known carrier, and then peak the dish using the signal strength meter as opposed to running a blind scan each time I move the dish just a little bit.

 

[PSB]

Don't have the Pansat 3500SD

All receivers will allow you to enter/use TP. and each satellite on the list will have pre-stored know TP.s (Maybe not LIVE)

 

[IA6Newspath]

Declination Angle & Fixed Dish Alignment

In reading up on proper alignment of FTA H-H motors, I learned that the declination angle (not to be confused with magnetic declination which must be taken into account when adjusting azimuth to true south) specific to the latitude of the installation site is used in the simple formula for calculating the dish elevation angle setting when the dish is attached to a motor. I'm curious, though, if declination angles must be taken into consideration when aligning a fixed dish. For example, if Satellite Finder software indicates that based on my location, IA 6 is at an elevation of 43.3 degrees and I would like to position a fixed dish on IA 6, then do I set my dish elevation at exactly 43.3 degrees, or does the declination angle for my particular latitude need to figure into the proper elevation, and if so, how?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

 

[Mr Tony]

I combined a couple threads togetehr

IA6...lets try and keep same topic questions (regarding the install) in one thread. Makes it easier to follow along

 

[hwh]

The satellite finder software takes your location into account so you set the non-motor dish to whatever it calculates.

The motors are designed to change the effective angle of the dish as they move so on a motor you have to set the dish taking this into account.

 

[IA6Newspath]

IA6...lets try and keep same topic questions (regarding the install) in one thread. Makes it easier to follow along

Sounds like a good idea, Iceberg...sorry for the multiple threads. In retrospect, threads like the very informative "I am not admitting defeat!" were much easier to follow as a single thread, so I'll try to do the same.

 

[Mr Tony]

no problem

 

[IA6Newspath]

Just another quick question...

I noticed while looking through Iceberg's review of the Pansat 3500 that there are two signal indicators--signal level and signal quality. When peaking a dish, is one of these two levels better to reference than the other and a better indication of whether or not the dish is peaked, or do they both generally increase/decrease together?

 

[PSB]

After entering the DFreq. / POL. / SR. you should ONLY look at the signal QUALITY.
The signal strength means nothing (At this point).

You could have the dish indoors and still get signal strength!

 

[IA6Newspath]

Well, just thought I'd update this thread, and throw out a few questions and observations in the process. I received my FTA equipment just a few days ago, but unfortunately I haven't had much time the last couple of days to experiment with my new equipment. Still, yesterday I had some time to assemble the dish (Winegard 76cm), install the LNBF (Xterme II 0.3 NF LNBF), and install the latest firmware on my new Pansat 3500SD (the firmware revision process was very easy and quick using the SD card method). Today I assembled my T-Pod dish stand (it seems very sturdy and is a great way of supporting my dish since my dish setup won't be permanent), mounted the dish on the stand and set the dish elevation for AMC 3, the bird closest to my true south. I then took the dish outside, connected the receiver to the LNBF and a monitor, configured the receiver, then entered the information for a known active signal on AMC 3. I opened the full-screen signal quality window, aimed the dish at approximately true south, and then started rotating it while monitoring the signal quality. To my surprise, after only about 5 minutes or so of slowly adjusting the azimuth, I saw a signal quality of approximately 35% show up on the meter and and the receiver indicated that it was "Locked" on the signal. I switched to the video on the receiver, and sure enough, there was the Bloomberg slate that I had hoped to find. I also checked out the PBS feeds which are also on AMC 3...just wish they weren't AC3 audio only, but I'll have to hook up the 3500's optical out to my receiver sometime to test the AC3 audio. I wasn't able to spend any more time today experimenting with the setup and trying to find other satellites, but I'll have plenty of time to tinker around with my FTA setup again during the next few days, and I'm really happy that I was able to locate and lock onto a satellite on my first attempt.

Anyway, here are a few questions/observations that I came up with while setting up my equipment and running my first test earlier today.

I used a Johnson magnetic angle locator (a VERY useful tool) for making sure that my mast was perfectly vertical, but can this tool also be magnetically attached to the LNBF arm and give an accurate reading of the dish elevation? Out of curiosity, I attached it to the LNBF arm, and it seemed to accurately reflect the elevation setting I had made using the elevation scale on the dish, and if the dish elevation angle is, in fact, always the same as the angle of the LNBF support arm, it would probably be a lot easier to set elevation using the Johnson angle locator as opposed to the elevation scale on the dish, not to mention more accurate.

I noticed that when I was on the full screen signal quality meter and the 3500 receiver locked onto a signal, the audio output of the receiver began beeping a 1 kHz tone...I'm guessing that this is an indication that the receiver has locked onto a signal. Also, the maximum signal quality I was able to get was a 35%, however I adjusted azimuth only and didn't attempt to peak the elevation, so I'm guessing that peaking the elevation probably would have resulted in an even stronger signal. That said, what is the maximum signal quality that one can expect to see on a meter...are SQs of 80% - 90% commonly achieved with a properly peaked dish, or is there a maximum SQ percentage that usually isn't exceeded? I guess I'll learn about this more firsthand as I continue experimenting with the signal metering nuances of my particular receiver.

When I locked onto the signal, I was kind of expecting to see the video appear on screen, or at least behind the signal quality meter. Initially I was a little confused as to what I needed to do in order to view the video, but I found that after exiting out of all the menus I had audio and full screen video. Is this typical of the 3500 receiver, or is there a way that I can monitor the video while simultaneously viewing any locked video signal? This is probably something that I'll be able to find by reading through the manual, or just by using the receiver more and becoming accustomed to its menu structure.

Finally, I noticed that in order to enter the frequency, polarity, and SR for the signal which I wanted to use for tuning, I actually had to enter the information as a memory channel for the satellite. Is there just a general tuner function in the 3500 where one can enter frequency, polarity, and SR and bypass the process of adding the channel under a selected satellite, or does a user-entered channel have to be entered as a memory channel under one of the listed satellites?


I also purchased an SG2100 motor, but I'm still going to do some more experimenting with a fixed dish setup before adding a motor into the equation. Tomorrow I plan on trying to pick up a few more satellites like IA6, AMC 5, and maybe even SBS 6. Thanks again to everyone who contributes to this forum. There's no doubt that much of my success today with my initial trial was thanks to all of the great help and information that I've picked up here!

 

[Mr Tony]

W Today I assembled my T-Pod dish stand (it seems very sturdy and is a great way of supporting my dish since my dish setup won't be permanent), mounted the dish on the stand and set the dish elevation for AMC 3, the bird closest to my true south. I then took the dish outside, connected the receiver to the LNBF and a monitor, configured the receiver, then entered the information for a known active signal on AMC 3. I opened the full-screen signal quality window, aimed the dish at approximately true south, and then started rotating it while monitoring the signal quality. To my surprise, after only about 5 minutes or so of slowly adjusting the azimuth, I saw a signal quality of approximately 35% show up on the meter and and the receiver indicated that it was "Locked" on the signal. I switched to the video on the receiver, and sure enough, there was the Bloomberg slate that I had hoped to find. I also checked out the PBS feeds which are also on AMC 3...just wish they weren't AC3 audio only, but I'll have to hook up the 3500's optical out to my receiver sometime to test the AC3 audio. I wasn't able to spend any more time today experimenting with the setup and trying to find other satellites, but I'll have plenty of time to tinker around with my FTA setup again during the next few days, and I'm really happy that I was able to locate and lock onto a satellite on my first attempt.

CONGRATS on getting it up and running

Anyway, here are a few questions/observations that I came up with while setting up my equipment and running my first test earlier today.

I noticed that when I was on the full screen signal quality meter and the 3500 receiver locked onto a signal, the audio output of the receiver began beeping a 1 kHz tone...I'm guessing that this is an indication that the receiver has locked onto a signal. Also, the maximum signal quality I was able to get was a 35%, however I adjusted azimuth only and didn't attempt to peak the elevation, so I'm guessing that peaking the elevation probably would have resulted in an even stronger signal. That said, what is the maximum signal quality that one can expect to see on a meter...are SQs of 80% - 90% commonly achieved with a properly peaked dish, or is there a maximum SQ percentage that usually isn't exceeded? I guess I'll learn about this more firsthand as I continue experimenting with the signal metering nuances of my particular receiver.

yes, the 3500 lets out a beep on the full screen setup. The higher the signal, the higher pitch the beep. AMC3 is tough to get depending on location. That Bloomberg card I get at about a 75 quality. PBS at 40ish
90 is possible but you need a REALLY strong signal and a properly peaked dish...also since you're working with a fixed dish, you might have to skew the LNB (unless AMC3 is your true south)

When I locked onto the signal, I was kind of expecting to see the video appear on screen, or at least behind the signal quality meter. Initially I was a little confused as to what I needed to do in order to view the video, but I found that after exiting out of all the menus I had audio and full screen video. Is this typical of the 3500 receiver, or is there a way that I can monitor the video while simultaneously viewing any locked video signal? This is probably something that I'll be able to find by reading through the manual, or just by using the receiver more and becoming accustomed to its menu structure.

once you have the channel scanned in, bring up the screen and press "I" button. That will give you on screen frequency, polarity, signal strength and quality while keeping your picture. Below I atached a couple examples (I have a 1500 but its the same setup)

Finally, I noticed that in order to enter the frequency, polarity, and SR for the signal which I wanted to use for tuning, I actually had to enter the information as a memory channel for the satellite. Is there just a general tuner function in the 3500 where one can enter frequency, polarity, and SR and bypass the process of adding the channel under a selected satellite, or does a user-entered channel have to be entered as a memory channel under one of the listed satellites?

other than blind scanning, no. You have to manually enter it under a satellite.

I also purchased an SG2100 motor, but I'm still going to do some more experimenting with a fixed dish setup before adding a motor into the equation. Tomorrow I plan on trying to pick up a few more satellites like IA6, AMC 5, and maybe even SBS 6. Thanks again to everyone who contributes to this forum. There's no doubt that much of my success today with my initial trial was thanks to all of the great help and information that I've picked up here!

I always like aiming a dish and getting that warm & fuzzy feeling when I get a signal

 

[drhydro]

Initially I was a little confused as to what I needed to do in order to view the video, but I found that after exiting out of all the menus I had audio and full screen video. Is this typical of the 3500 receiver, or is there a way that I can monitor the video while simultaneously viewing any locked video signal?

I believe the 3500 and the 2700a share the same remote. When you have viewable video on your tv screen, all you have to do is press the green "sig" button on the bottom of the remote. One press of the button brings up an info box with what satelite you are on, down freq. and signal strenth. Press again and a signal meter pops up that has an audible tone. The faster the tone, the higher the signal strength.