GEOSATpro Multiple Recordings Fail maincode 2013-2-18

[jwwbrennan]

I don't do a lot of recording so I don't know if this is new or not but...

when two or three recordings are set on a single satellite for a single day it records the first one properly but removes the others without recording. There is plenty of space on the NTFS drive and it records correctly as long as there is only one recording set at a time - if there are three recordings on the drive when a new timer is set, it is added as expected.

Can anyone tell me what to do differently?

 

[primestar31]

Sure, you have to have a 1 minute buffer between recordings. If you don't, it won't record, even if on the same channel. So for 1 hour shows, set them to record for .59 minutes.

If they aren't back-to-back recordings that you are talking about, how is your clock set? If it's set to anything but local time, the stations you are trying to record might be broadcasting wrong time info, which will also zap recordings

 

[cyberham]

This is a bug. On the conventional commercial networks, setting a 59-minute recording could cut off the end of a show, even if your clock is set precisely to the second. Stations seem to play some shows right to the top of the clock perhaps to draw you into the next show, with the commercials following the next show's lead-in. I remember this bug used to exist on commercial TV DVR's years ago, but they have fixed it now on currently available DVRs.

 

[jwwbrennan]

I probably forgot to record for 59 minutes rather than 60 although I thought there was an hour between recordings two and three. I'll try again at 59.

Thanks folks.

 

[cyberham]

A user should not need to remember to only record for 59 minutes. Inevitably, this will lead to missed recordings when you forget to do this. The machine should handle the situation.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Cannot have two timer events execute in the same minute. This is just the way that the ALI chipset works and has been discussed and documented in several past threads.

Current firmware does not delete reoccurring timers if a single event fails. Future timer loss can occur if the local time is set to GMT ON and the receiver is tuned to a channel incorrectly broadcasting a future GMT time and or date.

As pointed out in a previous post, to retain accurate time, keep the time setting to GMT OFF and in operate mode (not cycling to standby).

On my home system I recorded 4 reoccurring daily timer events for the past 8 months. The only time a recording is missed is when the signal was not present at the time the recording initiated or the drive was full or not connected.

 

[cyberham]

Cannot have two timer events execute in the same minute. This is just the way that the ALI chipset works...

If so, and if there's no workaround, then ALI is not appropriate for handling timed events. All it takes is for a seconds field to be added with finishing time set for :59 seconds and start time set for :00 seconds. It will continue to be reported as new users discover this bug.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Unfortunately, North American FTA broadcasters do not implement EPG like the majority of the world's other satellite service providers. If EPG was provided, this would not be an issue. So yes, you are correct about us NA FTA users needing a work around.

I typically start a second timer one minute early and extend the initial recording by one minute whenever possible. If recording multiple shows are back to back on the same transponder, I just make a single recording that includes all shows. Easy enough to split recordings if I want to archive.

I really have found this to be a minor timer issue compared to the efforts by broadcasters to capture the surfing viewers... More and more broadcasters are choosing not to keep the shows within the time slots and DVR users have to adjust event timers outside of the top and half hour start/stop times.

In FTA there seems to rarely be anything that works automatically! We are either not the targeted recipient so the broadcaster uses unique playout techniques or dealing with mediocre quality productions and inept scheduling.

We need to be smarter than the machine. Control the machine... Don't let the machine control you!

 

[jwwbrennan]

Current firmware does not delete reoccurring timers if a single event fails. Future timer loss can occur if the local time is set to GMT ON and the receiver is tuned to a channel incorrectly broadcasting a future GMT time and or date.

There is no reoccurring timer or reference to one, just three timers on different transponders on a single satellite on a single day. GMT was off and remains off.

We need to be smarter than the machine. Control the machine... Don't let the machine control you!

Machines have no intelligence to be smarter than but properly implemented software design on the right equipment can respond dependably to it.

 

[cyberham]

...I typically start a second timer one minute early and extend the initial recording by one minute whenever possible. If recording multiple shows are back to back on the same transponder, I just make a single recording that includes all shows. Easy enough to split recordings if I want to archive...

This is the machine controlling you. As John Stossel used to say: "Give me a break!"

 

[Larry1]

just three timers on different transponders on a single satellite on a single day. GMT was off and remains off.

If a situation simular to above BUT on the same transponder, I have found it great to have multiple instances of the same channel programmed into the microHD for my timers can be overlapped. i.e 3 shows back to back, each with their separate recordings, and each recording starting early and ending late. The channel is programmed into my microHD as ch1, and ch2. this way ch1 and ch2 can both be recording at the same time. i.e. the last 2 minutes of show 1 and the first two minutes of show 2. Too many times times i have found that programs may start half a minute early or end late and my recordings will be incomplete. Also, the clocks always seem to be out from the actual start and end times of the programming, even when using GMT ON. One long recording works fine, except for changes from the daily recordings that you want to happen only once. Instead of having to modify your timer, you would only need to add the extra timer for a once only recoding. However, I do realize that if not on the same transponder then this is not an option and a decision has to be made on which recordings get trimmed. If on the same polarity, then a solution would be a second microHD and splitting the signal. (or a dual feed LNBF if not on the same polarity) Maybe a future version of the Geosat will have multiple tuners and correct some of the Ali limitations. (although the problem arrises again if the recordings are on multiple satellites and a motor is involved) I'm hoping Ali will have a M-F timer in upcoming software releases.

 

[SatelliteAV]

There is no reoccurring timer or reference to one, just three timers on different transponders on a single satellite on a single day. GMT was off and remains off.

Please provide the channel, start time and duration. Is this repeatable or just happened?

Did you perform a factory reset then remove power after performing the firmware update?

Load an .udf file after performing the firmware update? Or scanned new?

 

[SatelliteAV]

This is the machine controlling you. As John Stossel used to say: "Give me a break!"

To make a statement that the microHD isn't suitable for recording is an asinine statement. You complain about no work around, so I provided an example of how I control the machine to overcome the timer limitation.

The microHD does a great job at DVR. It doesn't trump the Visionsat's DVR functions, but it is the most reliable FTA DVR that I have used. There is a reason that it is my primary recorder for my home system.

 

[jwwbrennan]

Thanks Larry1, I will give it a go.

Please provide the channel, start time and duration. Is this repeatable or just happened?

Yesterday SES 2 11808 tp 5 (LPB HD) 8:00PM 3 hours 11:55PM 1.5 hours - dependably repeatable

Did you perform a factory reset then remove power after performing the firmware update?

Without an audit trail I can't be certain but tend to do such things as stipulated. On the other hand I will redo first chance.

Load an .udf file after performing the firmware update? Or scanned new?

Scanned new as there are only a few channels of interest so the time is negligible and any changes on satellites are updated.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Yesterday SES 2 11808 tp 5 (LPB HD) 8:00PM 3 hours 11:55PM 1.5 hours

Please verify the situation. Are you saying the second timer did not record or both did not record?

Are these the only timers? If not, what other channels, with start and duration.

It is extremely important to perform factory resets and the remove the power after firmware updates. This clears and resets the flash memory. Failure to do this could result in issues like this.

 

[Larry1]

It is extremely important to perform factory resets and the remove the power after firmware updates.

This fixes many of the issues you may occur if not done. Even if you thought you did this, re-doing this will make sure the box re-set. Whenever there is a problem, this should be the first thing to do to clear out the memory then check to see if you can re-create the problem.

 

[cyberham]

You complain about no work around, so I provided an example of how I control the machine to overcome the timer limitation.

Your feedback is exactly that: a workaround. I'm suggesting a permanent fix to the reported situation is required (eventually). Don't shoot the messengers, or the messengers will just go away.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Your feedback is exactly that: a workaround. I'm suggesting a permanent fix to the reported situation is required (eventually). Don't shoot the messengers, or the messengers will just go away.

Cyberham, we are talking about a manual timer, aren't we? The user is free to start or stop the timers in one minute intervals and only one event can be triggered within the same minute. With the absence of an EPG, every timer is a manual setting that requires the user to set a start time and a duration.

I really don't understand your issue with setting a manual timer. If you manually set a timer to start at 3:00pm, why not set to start at 2:59pm if you wish to give your recording an extra minute before the top of the hour?

If you have an issue with trying to remember to set a timer one minute earlier, how would adding additional digits for seconds make it easier for you? Remember, ALI chipset are hardcoded to trigger one manual timer at the top of each minute.

Nothing against the messenger, just questioning the message...

 

[Larry1]

how would adding additional digits for seconds make it easier for you? Remember, ALI chipset are hardcoded to trigger one manual timer at the top of each minute.

(As I see it) The idea was to have seconds added for you could put the timers as follows
start record timer 1 at 2:30:00
end record timer 1 at 2:59:59
start record timer 2 at 3:00:00
end record timer 2 at 3:29:59
This would make it for the timers do not happen at the same time, but 1 second apart. However,

since ALI chipset are hardcoded to trigger one manual timer at the top of each minute.

this would not work as the timers are not 1 minute apart.

 

[jwwbrennan]

As the unit worked as expected after the upgrade I thought I must have later inadvertently restored from an incorrect USB key with old files when modifying data externally.

Yesterday I ran the processes, (downloaded from satellite, new scan, no external modifications, local time set, GMT off) set it to record twice and had very different results - nothing but the timers were deleted. It successfully recorded manually twice today.

First chance I will monitor it through the process as I doubt it is the ALI chipset; under the circumstances that really only leaves me in the frame.