MLB Network

[DodgerKing]

As an outside observer, I read Charlie complaining that Direct wanted to take EI away from him and other providers, indicating that he wanted to keep EI. Later he gets rid of it anyway, claiming it cost too much, even though Direct did not get exclusive rights and other providers kept it and yet others even added it. It seems to me that this was more of an excuse than anything. If it cost so much, then why were other providers able to keep it and new providers like FiOS able to add it when they did not have it before?

 

[vampz26]

As an outside observer, I read Charlie complaining that Direct wants to take EI away from him and other providers, indicating that he wanted to keep EI. Later he gets rid of it anyway, claiming it cost too much, even though Direct did not get exclusive rights and other providers kept it and yet others even added it. It seems to me that this was more of an excuse than anything. If it cost so much, then why were other providers able to keep it and new providers like FiOS able to add it when they did not have it before?

Sigh...your going to make me say this again?!?

it was a bidding war...the prices were driven up because every other provider had to match D*'s bid just to get carraige rights at all...

How they could afford it? Who knows...it was the cable companies. Last I checked cable companies weren't hurting for cash so....

But all I know is like you said, Dish made it very clear that they could not afford it, and it wouldn't be cost effective at the new rate. Given that E* runs a very lean business, and we've all been questioning their financial status for some time now...I don't see how we can't give Charlie the benefit of the doubt on that one. If I were him, I wouldn't be taking a chance on any more losing ventures etiher...

At the end of the day, I don't know if I agree with charlie or not, but there is plenty of reasons out there that point to the fact that prudent decisions on his part may be the better decisions...even if they are the unpopular decisions...

 

[DodgerKing]

Sigh...your going to make me say this again?!?

it was a bidding war...the prices were driven up because every other provider had to match D*'s bid just to get carraige rights at all...

How they could afford it? Who knows...it was the cable companies. Last I checked cable companies weren't hurting for cash so....

But all I know is like you said, Dish made it very clear that they could not afford it, and it wouldn't be cost effective at the new rate. Given that E* runs a very lean business, and we've all been questioning their financial status for some time now...I don't see how we can't give Charlie the benefit of the doubt on that one. If I were him, I wouldn't be taking a chance on any more losing ventures etiher...

At the end of the day, I don't know if I agree with charlie or not, but there is plenty of reasons out there that point to the fact that prudent decisions on his part may be the better decisions...even if they are the unpopular decisions...

I realize bidding drives the prices up. Once the exclusive deal is dropped, Direct will no longer pay the same price they would if they were to get an exclusive deal.

 

[vampz26]

I realize bidding drives the prices up. Once the exclusive deal is dropped, Direct will no longer pay the same price they would if they were to get an exclusive deal.

it didn't work that way, the exclusive rights were dropped because cable and dish were allowed to match Directv's offer. Cable did, Dish didn't...

...but the prices was driven up none-the-less...

 

[DodgerKing]

it didn't work that way, the exclusive rights were dropped because cable and dish were allowed to match Directv's offer. Cable did, Dish didn't...

...but the prices was driven up none-the-less...

How do you know this? That is what I am asking.

Look, if I am willing to pay to get exclusive rights, I may pay a lot more knowing that it will pay off due to an increase in the number of subs and the elimination of the competition. Once the exclusive deal is done, I as a business person would no longer be willing to pay the same as I would if it was exclusive.

Since we do not know the financial details there is no way to know for sure if the others upped their bid to match Diects exclusive offer or if Direct dropped their original offer once the exclusive deal fell through.

 

[vampz26]

How do you know this? That is what I am asking.

Look, if I am willing to pay to get exclusive rights, I may pay a lot more knowing that it will pay off due to an increase in the number of subs and the elimination of the competition. Once the exclusive deal is done, I as a business person would no longer be willing to pay the same as I would if it was exclusive.

Since we do not know the financial details there is no way to know for sure if the others upped their bid to match Diects exclusive offer or if Direct dropped their original offer once the exclusive deal fell through.

Do a google search on it. there is all kinds of information out there. Everything from satguys, dbstalk, avs..etc...including sports blogs, espn, and even local sports teams and guys just talking about it there...I suggest you do that because honestly, there is too much info and I don't know what to post first...

Heres one that popped up:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...y-mlb-ei-no-so-fast-says-mlb-how-about-e.html

...remember, this was an ongoing drama...there is plenty more where that came from to fill the gaps.

And for the record, I normally refuse to do the 'dance monkey dance' routine when it comes to playing google-games to compensate for anyones 'argument from ignorance', but at the same time, I've never been threatened by two mods at once before just because they can't support their own argument, so...you can thank them for my new found vulnerability here, but if you really want to learn something? Look it up yourself...its out there just as I've shown you. Feel free to dig deeper for the answers you seek...

 

[ScoBuck]

I asked him if he recalls the events that have taken place...

These aren't interpretations or assumptions...these were actual events Sco and i have previously discussed...very different...

if he doesn't...oh well...

Actually - I have gone back. You weren't even an active posting member of this site 2 years ago. A member, but not one making posts at satguys until something happened to you somewhere else. For example, in the linked threads you have provided here from that time-frame, it's funny but YOU AREN'T IN THEM!

So - provide CONCRETE EVIDENCE of our 'discussing this' 2 years ago. This should be easy for you if it exists.

 

[vampz26]

Actually - I hve gone back. You weren't even an active posting member of this site 2 years ago. A member, but not one making posts at satguys until something happened to you somewhere else.

but I was an active reading member...

...and I've been on several other related sites as well.

 

[ScoBuck]

but I was an active reading member...

...and I've been on several other related sites as well.

Convenient answer again. Just post the CONCRETE EVIDENCE that you and I had a discussion regarding MLB 2 years ago as you have STATED. A link to ANY site where we had this should be real easy. You have already posted links to 2 old threads about this from satguys, and you aren't in them - so now it's time for you to PRODUCE. I have only posted on a total of 3 sites, so limit yourself to looking at them (making it easier for you vampz) - easy to figure which 3 sites that would be.

Here is what you said in your post above that I would like to see even a shred of CONCRETE EVIDENCE from:

"in case you don't remember your history, D* two years ago was going for EI exclusively and drove the bidding costs sky-high which was why Charlie threw his hands in the air over the whole thing. I recall even debating that whole thing with you even then! Thats what I was referring too...

its all part of history, you can look it up yourself if you like...but as I recall, you and I were actively discussing it at the time..."

 

[Juan]

I think that when these sports packages come up for renewal . The new D* owner (Darth Malone) will balk at paying absorbitant exclusive prices and MLEI will be back on E*

 

[ScoBuck]

Do a google search on it. there is all kinds of information out there. Everything from satguys, dbstalk, avs..etc...including sports blogs, espn, and even local sports teams and guys just talking about it there...I suggest you do that because honestly, there is too much info and I don't know what to post first...

Heres one that popped up:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...y-mlb-ei-no-so-fast-says-mlb-how-about-e.html

...remember, this was an ongoing drama...there is plenty more where that came from to fill the gaps.

And for the record, I normally refuse to do the 'dance monkey dance' routine when it comes to playing google-games to compensate for anyones 'argument from ignorance', but at the same time, I've never been threatened by two mods at once before just because they can't support their own argument, so...you can thank them for my new found vulnerability here, but if you really want to learn something? Look it up yourself...its out there just as I've shown you. Feel free to dig deeper for the answers you seek...

Threatened with what? Please fill me and Iceberg in. Thanks.

 

[ScoBuck]

I think that when these sports packages come up for renewal . The new D* owner (Darth Malone) will balk at paying absorbitant exclusive prices and MLEI will be back on E*

Well - that's 5 more years, and in this business who knows if there will even be an E*. Or a D*, or a FiOS, etc. Man, that's a lifetime away.

 

[stuckingoo]

IMO, whether or not Dish renews EI 5 years from now is almost secondary to their problem of dropping sports packages that DirecTV consistently offers. Means nothing to alot of people but for many, they want the option of EI, Center Ice, Sunday Ticket, etc. to always be available. IIRC, Dish went to the wire with their Center Ice negotiations last year....it's simply always there with DirecTV. BTW, I was a Dish customer when they dropped EI and shortly thereafter I became a DirecTV customer.

 

[ScoBuck]

well vampz, you did provide evidence that your claim of DISH turning down MLB was based on any 'dramatic' price increase IS INCORRECT. Rather, according to the President of DISH NETWORK in testimony before Congress, said the hold-up was over - GUESS WHAT. Ownership of MLB Network, and that they were in fact willing to part with the CASH. The below quote is from the thread you linked.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/852855-post72.html

CARL VOGEL (DISH PRESIDENT) from March 27, 2007 - before the U.S. Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee

"The terms offered by Major League Baseball effectively tie the carriage of the Extra Innings package TODAY to a firm commitment to launch The MLB Channel to over 10 million of our subscribers in 2009. We find these demands inconsistent in a climate where Congress, the FCC, and the American public are asking for more a-la-carte choices.

Despite these onerous terms, we stand ready to match the current offer in its entirety to protect our consumers and remain competitive. However, in its entirety must be apples to apples, which will require EchoStar to acquire a pro-rata ownership of The MLB Channel. In a letter dated March 22nd, from Major League Baseball, they state they are not in a position to offer any equity in connection with this “opt-in” opportunity without DirecTV’s consent. It will be interesting to see whether that consent is forthcoming, and with what conditions, as DirecTV reconciles whether it wears its ownership hat for the MLB Channel or its hat as a competitive distributor. "

In the final contract, inDemand did receive part ownership of MLB-Network. That is the sticking point 'pointed out' in Mr. Vogel's testimony before Congress. No mention of 'DRAMATIC PRICE INCREASES' as the reason for saying no - all the negatives revolve around the MLB Newtork, none mention the cost of EI.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

I am not saying Vampz is wrong or right, but I am curious myself to see what the cost difference between EI a couple of years back compared to now. Would there be anyway to find out what MLB charged the providers for EI???

This article sheds a little light on what the rate may have been before the attempt at the exclusive arrangement:

But the new agreement will take it off cable and Dish because DirecTV has agreed to pay $700 million over seven years, according to three executives briefed on the details of the contract but not authorized to speak about them publicly.

InDemand, which has distributed Extra Innings to the cable television industry since 2002, made an estimated $70 million bid to renew its rights, more than triple what it has been paying. Part of its offer included the right to carry the new baseball channel, but not exclusively.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/sports/baseball/20base.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

We do know the cost to subscribers rose dramatically:

1996-2000 $139
2001 $149
2002 $159
2008 $199

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLB_Extra_Innings"]MLB Extra Innings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:MLB_Extra_Innings.svg" class="image"><img alt="MLB Extra Innings.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/07/MLB_Extra_Innings.svg/200px-MLB_Extra_Innings.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/0/07/MLB_Extra_Innings.svg/200px-MLB_Extra_Innings.svg.png[/ame]

 

[stuckingoo]

I don't think the 2008 number is correct. I think it was $169 plus $50 for Superfan.

 

[vampz26]

Sco, grow up. I am at work right now and excuse me if I currently prioritize keeping my job over your 'dance monkey dance' routine your playing on me here. You see? This is exactly the type of 'threatening' behavior I am talking about.

I made my point. My point stands. And if the best you got is to act like this and play games with me, then that speaks for itself now, doesn't it...

There is plenty if info out there for anyone to come to their own conclusions on this Dish / EI stuff as I said. Your revisionist histories aren't going to change that.

 

[ScoBuck]

Sco, grow up. I am at work right now and excuse me if I currently prioritize keeping my job over your 'dance monkey dance' routine your playing on me here. You see? This is exactly the type of 'threatening' behavior I am talking about.

I made my point. My point stands. And if the best you got is to act like this and play games with me, then that speaks for itself now, doesn't it...

There is plenty if info out there for anyone to come to their own conclusions on this Dish / EI stuff as I said. Your revisionist histories aren't going to change that.

vampz, you don't have to answer my request for EVIDENCE now, please send it along when you get home from work. You have lied about having a discussion with me 2 years ago (YOUR REVISIONIST HISTORY), and obviously your lack of ability to provide this proof has you doing the dance monkey dance - instead of proving any points you have made.

Too funny, man. And transparent to all reading your jibbberish.

 

[ScoBuck]

This article sheds a little light on what the rate may have been before the attempt at the exclusive arrangement:



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/sports/baseball/20base.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

We do know the cost to subscribers rose dramatically:





MLB Extra Innings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thanks for the info. the subs have taken it on the chin.

 

[vampz26]

vampz, you don't have to answer my request for EVIDENCE now, please send it along when you get home from work. You have lied about having a discussion with me 2 years ago (YOUR REVISIONIST HISTORY), and obviously your lack of ability to provide this proof has you doing the dance monkey dance - instead of proving any points you have made.

Too funny, man. And transparent to all reading your jibbberish.

Nice personal attack there, Sco.

You asked me to prove the sky is blue, I said look up. There it is. There is no denying it on your end.

As for lying. If you don't remember our legendary debates here and in other forums, that is not my problem. It may mean your forgetful, but you being forgetful does not make me a liar.

Its obvious there is much more to our discussion here than just MLB. All I can say is that if I hurt your feelings, I am sorry.