Mandatory Changeover to HD

[rickc]

(I placed this post in the other satellite forum, and thought I'd also enter it here. There are still a lot of questions regarding the mandatory HD changover and how it will effect the satellite industry.)

So what do you think will happen when the mandatory changeover to Hi-Definition occurs (2009?)?

Will Dish and Direct TV be forced to transmit all stations in HD, likely using mpeg-4?

And what about all the program providers? Will they just up-convert their SD output to digital wide format and call it good?

How many of the smaller providers will be forced out of the market due to the additional equipment and maintenance cost?

 

[clapple]

The change over is not to HD, it is to digital TV. Not the same as HD!

 

[phaddon]

this was my understanding also.

 

[Mike500]

Actually, dbs has an advantage over cable. It is a simple head end conversion of OTA digital signals at the head end for locals. No modification has to be made to the dish or even to the Mpeg2 receiver.


Cable has the dilemma of whether to retain subscribers that are adverse to a new set top box by keeping analog. They have to decide, if they want to convert digital OTA to analog to retain these customers.

OTA reception will require a set top converter for the current analog sets, It will be subsidized at $50. Being that, there will be a migration to dbs or cable.

 

[BFG]

Well when the local stations end their analog broadcasts, dish will have to pick up their digital instead and many of them are HD dish having to carry all the locals that are HD in HD would create a huge bandwidth problem and that's one of the things they're fighting for, to down convert stations they don't have room or aren't ready to carry in HD yet....

 

[Mike500]

Well when the local stations end their analog broadcasts, dish will have to pick up their digital instead and many of them are HD dish having to carry all the locals that are HD in HD would create a huge bandwidth problem and that's one of the things they're fighting for, to down convert stations they don't have room or aren't ready to carry in HD yet....

The "bread and butter" for Dish will still be the 10 million or more subscribers on current stand definition Mpeg2 boxes. As cheap as Charlie is, he won't, until he has to.

They will, at one point, stop manufacturing MPeg2 receivers, when the digital conversion begins.

 

[Mark_AR]

Also of note.

The *mandatory* digital switch is only for high power stations. Local low power stations are not included in this *digital* changeover yet.

I was told of this by a local low-power broadcaster this week.

 

[SaltiDawg]

...

They will, at one point, stop manufacturing MPeg2 receivers, when the digital conversion begins.

No hassle here, but is Dish still manufacturing any MPEG-2 receivers? The MPEG-4 receivers are now cheap enough that it's not clear to me why a new subscriber would opt for an MPEG-2 receiver nor would I see the appeal for an existing subscriber to want to upgrade to an MPEG-2 box?

Likel;y I'm missing something.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I think a large number of Dish's new subs are still going with MPEG2 SD receivers. I haven't heard of Dish substituting 211 receivers for 311s, and they don't even have a MPEG4 equivalent for the 322.

Even if the digital mandate is enforced this next time around, it is anticipated that most Americans will stay with analog TVs. Congress has appropriate funds to subsidize the cost of set top boxes which will convert digital transmissions to analog outputs. These boxes may get down to the $20-$30 range. And everyone subbing to cable or DBS can just go on using existing boxes, some cable companies may have to replace old analog convert boxes.

And we're only talking locals here. None of the so-called "cable" channels will have to go high-def, until they are ready.

I'm sure E* and D* are preparing for needing to carry a lot of HD channels within 4-5 years, and we can already see them moving in that direction. One step is conditioning current HD subs to accept HD-lite, which will aid them by being able to transmit more channels per transponder. If they can reduce HD channel bitrates to 9-10 mb/s and once MPEG4 matures and becomes more efficient, they may be able to get 6 or more "HD" channels per TP. This would make the transition much cheaper.

 

[lakebum431]

they don't even have a MPEG4 equivalent for the 322.

Yet. The 222 will be out in a couple months

 

[SimpleSimon]

Cable has the dilemma of whether to retain subscribers that are adverse to a new set top box by keeping analog. They have to decide, if they want to convert digital OTA to analog to retain these customers.

Can't cable just "pass-through" the ATSC signal? I do understand that old TVs are going to need a set-top box either way. Either a digital cable box or a ATSC to NTSC converter. That's THEIR problem.

As for E* receivers - I think we're only a few months from all new boxes being MPEG-4 (and HD) compatible. 211, 222, 622.

 

[Jim5506]

Also of note.

The *mandatory* digital switch is only for high power stations. Local low power stations are not included in this *digital* changeover yet.

I was told of this by a local low-power broadcaster this week.

The switchover IS mandatory for all stations, there have been NO dates set as of yet for low power and class A stations, but it will happen. Congress wants those frequencies and the big bucks, the all-powerful BIG BUCKS.

 

[riffjim4069]

Can't cable just "pass-through" the ATSC signal? I do understand that old TVs are going to need a set-top box either way. Either a digital cable box or a ATSC to NTSC converter. That's THEIR problem.

As for E* receivers - I think we're only a few months from all new boxes being MPEG-4 (and HD) compatible. 211, 222, 622.

Yes, but very few cable companies pass through ATSC/8-VSB since QAM is a much more efficient cable modulation; although they can pass-through ATSC at the headend using a frequency converter, it would occupy an entire 6 MHz frequency that is very inefficient...cable can send three excellent quality broadcast HD channels in this 6 MHz frequencies (38.8 Mbps) using QAM256 and using a statistical muxtiplexer like a Terayon CherryPicker. Terayon also makes a mux that can rate shape and support four HD programs in one channel (their hype, not mine).

Other than FiOS (fiber) I doubt traditional cable providers will be able to support analog channels 1-99 much longer. They will need to convert more of their cable frequencies to digital in order to support HD, broadband, VOD, VOIP, etc. Subscribers will need a converter box and/or will only receive a limited number of analog channels IMO.

 

[M Sparks]

So what do you think will happen when the mandatory changeover to Hi-Definition occurs (2009?)?

SIGH.

Where did this nonsense come from, and why has it persisted for so many years? And even if it was true, why do people think it has anything to do with DBS?

 

[T2k]

The change over is not to HD, it is to digital TV. Not the same as HD!

Correct. There's no mandatory transition to HD whatsoever.

 

[navychop]

Yep, as soon as production is up and stable for MPEG-4 boxes, the MPEG-2 boxes will no longer be made, then will no longer be made available (exchanges/warranty) and then will be recalled. Charlie knows it'll be cheaper to replace those boxes over a few years than in one fell swoop. The new boxes are all 8PSK and MPEG-4 capable. Lotta bandwidth wasted on MPEG-2 channels.

Yes, we need that beating a dead horse emoticon for topics like "mandatory HD."