I thought it was in this tread that someone posted that with the new forum software you no longer could see where someone was from. I was mistaken.
Lost favorite OTA channel
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As of this evening, KOCE is coming in at 100 signal strength on my Hopper (USB tuner).
I would try getting your antenna to greater HEIGHT, as you may be suffering from First Effect (some hill--even a hill or mountain miles away but within line of sight--the obstruction may NOT even be viable from where you are. It wasn't until I was on the 5th floor of an office building that I could SEE the hill that was causing my First Effect) that can obscure part of the signal) with KOCE's inferior signal. This can vary greatly with weather and atmospheric conditions. I have a hill a few miles away and First Effect only rears it ugly head with KOCE and KLCS, both of which came in better when we got the OTA higher. After I had done a few re-points of my OTA to getting it just right, I still found that KOCE would suffer greatly in cloudy weather or atmospheric conditions meaning that enough of the signal could not get through.
Now, when dealing with a sometimes marginal signal, some OTA tuners do a better job than others. HDTV tuners are usually the best. After that, OTA tuners in DVR's etc.
So, OP, you are in the SFV, which I think is part of the problem. While I'm on the other side of the metro LA area, allow me to share my experience with KOCE 50 over the many years receiving on OTA via Dish, TiVo, and direct to HDTV. (and this applies to KLCS 58 at times). KOCE is overall a truly weaker channel that will have wildly differing reliability while all the other channels will come in strong at ALL TIMES. Further, KOCE will often have a decent to strong signal strength, but then suffer a low enough signal that I will lose it, although less frequently in recent months. I have suffered loss on my direct connection to HDTV at times, as well.
KOCE only recently (a few years ago) moved to Mt. Wilson, and I would imagine that they did NOT get a boost in power (this would negatively affect the other transmitters already at Mt. Wilson for decades, and these moves are often allowed by the FCC ONLY if the power is the same or even LESS than what it was at the original location. Also, its placement on the antenna farm at Wilson could further erode the signal already at a lower power compared to KCET, KNBC, KCBS, KABC, etc.), but even with lower power, the transmitter being on Mt. Wilson (much higher location) allowed it to be received by MILLIONS of new viewers who could never get it OTA before.
First Effect can be over come by STRONG signal or by the OTA receiving antenna at your home being as high as necessary, provided you aren't too close to that hill or mountain, and YOU, OP, are in the Valley.
Keep in mind that part of the problem with DIGITAL is that if a station is lower power, their Error Correction becomes REALLY critical. All it takes is few packets to be lost and you won't get a picture. Higher power is one way to compensate for loss of signal due to "poor" error correction. However, KOCE can't increase its power, so the engineers are going to have to set the error correction to a proper level compensating for that, BUT KOCE is multiplexing FOUR additional channels and this is only going to make receiving any of those channels even MORE difficult.
The sad truth is, KOCE is what it is. On Mt. Wilson, yeah, but too lower power to overcome some physical obstacles RELIABLY, and more subject to the whims of Mother Nature in weather and atmospheric conditions (and cursed by ATSC rather than blessed by DVB-T, as Europe is) and having somewhat INCOMPETENT engineers who may also be victims of KOCE's lack of spending in the engineering dept., although one would think that KOCE is getting (and we know for sure SENDING more money to PBS) more money than ever, and spending some of it on improving the quality of their video and better addressing their problems (they choose to multiplex partly for money they are getting from that religious service) by putting reception of the main channel a top priority. But of course not; it is KOCE 50. Add to that for you in your location, KOCE's placement on Mt. Wilson with its low power just can not overcome First Effect all the time. Again, you and I have NO PROBLEMS with almost all the other channels (KLCS 58 sometimes drops, too, but they are lower power, as well) coming in strong and reliably. Certainly all the channels that matter
.
Again, try getting that OTA HIGHER and even a repoint. My off and on again problems with receiving KOCE are still a reality. The latest for me was a month ago when signal would drop, but its has been steady for many weeks. Ironical, KLCS, has been more reliable than KOCE lately. KOCE loss problems are observed on my Dish OTA, TiVo OTA, and less often, but still happens, on my direct connected HDTV.
Also, I would call KOCE and try to speak to someone in Engineering (some at the TiVo forum were able to do this) and staff their at the station may be able to help or have suggestions or even just tell you that you may have to live with it, but you should try contacting them.
Finally, OP, as of my last scan a few months ago, I have 156 channels for LA OTA. How many show up for you? It seems the LA OTA is still ADDING even MORE channels (Robert Heron at Revision3 was bragging about SF's 86 OTA channel count). But, I wanted to compare, and if you are getting LESS than 156, that would be interesting.
I would try getting your antenna to greater HEIGHT, as you may be suffering from First Effect (some hill--even a hill or mountain miles away but within line of sight--the obstruction may NOT even be viable from where you are. It wasn't until I was on the 5th floor of an office building that I could SEE the hill that was causing my First Effect) that can obscure part of the signal) with KOCE's inferior signal. This can vary greatly with weather and atmospheric conditions. I have a hill a few miles away and First Effect only rears it ugly head with KOCE and KLCS, both of which came in better when we got the OTA higher. After I had done a few re-points of my OTA to getting it just right, I still found that KOCE would suffer greatly in cloudy weather or atmospheric conditions meaning that enough of the signal could not get through.
Now, when dealing with a sometimes marginal signal, some OTA tuners do a better job than others. HDTV tuners are usually the best. After that, OTA tuners in DVR's etc.
So, OP, you are in the SFV, which I think is part of the problem. While I'm on the other side of the metro LA area, allow me to share my experience with KOCE 50 over the many years receiving on OTA via Dish, TiVo, and direct to HDTV. (and this applies to KLCS 58 at times). KOCE is overall a truly weaker channel that will have wildly differing reliability while all the other channels will come in strong at ALL TIMES. Further, KOCE will often have a decent to strong signal strength, but then suffer a low enough signal that I will lose it, although less frequently in recent months. I have suffered loss on my direct connection to HDTV at times, as well.
KOCE only recently (a few years ago) moved to Mt. Wilson, and I would imagine that they did NOT get a boost in power (this would negatively affect the other transmitters already at Mt. Wilson for decades, and these moves are often allowed by the FCC ONLY if the power is the same or even LESS than what it was at the original location. Also, its placement on the antenna farm at Wilson could further erode the signal already at a lower power compared to KCET, KNBC, KCBS, KABC, etc.), but even with lower power, the transmitter being on Mt. Wilson (much higher location) allowed it to be received by MILLIONS of new viewers who could never get it OTA before.
First Effect can be over come by STRONG signal or by the OTA receiving antenna at your home being as high as necessary, provided you aren't too close to that hill or mountain, and YOU, OP, are in the Valley.
Keep in mind that part of the problem with DIGITAL is that if a station is lower power, their Error Correction becomes REALLY critical. All it takes is few packets to be lost and you won't get a picture. Higher power is one way to compensate for loss of signal due to "poor" error correction. However, KOCE can't increase its power, so the engineers are going to have to set the error correction to a proper level compensating for that, BUT KOCE is multiplexing FOUR additional channels and this is only going to make receiving any of those channels even MORE difficult.
The sad truth is, KOCE is what it is. On Mt. Wilson, yeah, but too lower power to overcome some physical obstacles RELIABLY, and more subject to the whims of Mother Nature in weather and atmospheric conditions (and cursed by ATSC rather than blessed by DVB-T, as Europe is) and having somewhat INCOMPETENT engineers who may also be victims of KOCE's lack of spending in the engineering dept., although one would think that KOCE is getting (and we know for sure SENDING more money to PBS) more money than ever, and spending some of it on improving the quality of their video and better addressing their problems (they choose to multiplex partly for money they are getting from that religious service) by putting reception of the main channel a top priority. But of course not; it is KOCE 50. Add to that for you in your location, KOCE's placement on Mt. Wilson with its low power just can not overcome First Effect all the time. Again, you and I have NO PROBLEMS with almost all the other channels (KLCS 58 sometimes drops, too, but they are lower power, as well) coming in strong and reliably. Certainly all the channels that matter
.Again, try getting that OTA HIGHER and even a repoint. My off and on again problems with receiving KOCE are still a reality. The latest for me was a month ago when signal would drop, but its has been steady for many weeks. Ironical, KLCS, has been more reliable than KOCE lately. KOCE loss problems are observed on my Dish OTA, TiVo OTA, and less often, but still happens, on my direct connected HDTV.
Also, I would call KOCE and try to speak to someone in Engineering (some at the TiVo forum were able to do this) and staff their at the station may be able to help or have suggestions or even just tell you that you may have to live with it, but you should try contacting them.
Finally, OP, as of my last scan a few months ago, I have 156 channels for LA OTA. How many show up for you? It seems the LA OTA is still ADDING even MORE channels (Robert Heron at Revision3 was bragging about SF's 86 OTA channel count
). But, I wanted to compare, and if you are getting LESS than 156, that would be interesting.Ok, I was viewing KOCE 50 earlier on my Hopper and I lost the picture due to sign a loss. Repeated attempts to retune were not successful. After about half an hour I was able to successfully returned to KOCE 50, but the strength meter dropped to 75. All I can say is this the reality of KOCE for me at my location. This is typical KOCE for me on ALL my devices. I can still get my OTA higher I f necessary, but I often record KOCE off satellite with Dish, but OTA on TiVo, and, yes my good tuner TiVos will lose KOCE, too, but less often direct connection to HDTV, they h having the best performing OTA tuners.
Actually no it isn't. The problem is that we were trying to help a member with an OTA problem and without knowing where he was from didn't help. Being able to use the location to look it up on TVFool is one of the tools used to try to solve the problem.
Anyone with an OTA problem should always include his/her location. Also, they probably would be better served by going to the AVS forum for help. The AVS forum deals with OTA problems located by city. LA is active and so is San Francisco.
For really odd problems, the SF forum has some extremely knowledgeable members willling and able to help.
www.avsforum.com
PS. I looked up his location (rough as we only know it is the LA area) and that problem channel show a 0 edge signal. This probably isn't quite accurate without knowing his actual address which probably shouldn't be included here but if looked up by the person with the problem could possibly show a different result.
BTW, I'm leaning toward the possibliilty that he has a multipath problem and a more directional antenna could possibly solve his problem.
I'm not saying i'm stupid, I'm just saying I've got bad luck when it comes to thinking
Reporting from Santa Rosa on the left coast
My point (and what was confusing) is that a signature isn't necessary to show where you're from. It's easiest to have it shown under your username, avatar, etc. Also, some people have "Show signatures" off...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Point taken. However, since this forum changed, navigation is all messed up and it's not apparent how to put your location in.
Adding it with your signature is the only logical place that I can see and dwarren was nice enough to post it.
Didn't they used to show your location somewhere, like in the upper right corner. Maybe I'm confused with another forum.
Does Previous Thread or Next Thread work for everyone else here?
Can't really agree with that. I had never looked, but it took only one click to find it after reading this post. Under Personal Details under the user dropdown menu.
Switch to the Classic theme or ask Scott to add it to the other themes, or just click on the user name and it shows in the popup.
I'm using the "Classic" style/theme. I see that the default theme does not show one's location....
AVS isn't much help, either. Actually the TiVo forum seems to have more knowledgeable and helpful posters regarding OTA. However, THIS forum beats AVS regarding OTA, believe it or not.
However, EXACT location is critical regarding his problem. He is in the San Fernando Valley and there are several locations in "The Valley " that suffer from either partial or complete reception of OTA's while others do not. Zip Code provided does NOT narrow it down far enough because he could live in a part that, to me, would seem NOT to have problems, but in the same zip code there are problems. KOCE's low power/position on Mt. Wilson and poor engineering as for as encoding are the most likely culprits. Multi-path could be a problem, but with KOCE, you don't need mutli-path to have MAJOR problems received that station. I would NOT expect the best nor highest paid nor most competent engineers at KOCE. It is still a teeny weeny station.
He lives in Sherman Oaks, I used to live there. You are correct, he could be in areas that have issues. If he lives north of Ventura Blvd, probably OK, south, lot's of maybe's. But, he had the channel before, this is a newer issue. He gets all the rest of the channels off of Mt. Wilson. Maybe if he could give us nearest cross streets, we might get a better picture...
Sorry to hear that AVS LA is useless. The San Francisco thread has numerous very, very knowledgeable members from more than just SF.
Being a teeny weeny station might be a good reason to get a very directional antenna if he doesn't already have one. (IMHO)
HEY, thanks to all that led me to switch to the classic theme. Didn't even no there were options. When did this news get out and where did everyone find out about it?
Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,THANKS...............
I'm not saying I'm stupid, I'm just saying I've had bad luck when it comes to thinking.
Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,THANKS...............
I'm not saying I'm stupid, I'm just saying I've had bad luck when it comes to thinking.
What screen format are you using. When I look at the same post, his location does not show up under his avatar.
He lives in Sherman Oaks, I used to live there. You are correct, he could be in areas that have issues. If he lives north of Ventura Blvd, probably OK, south, lot's of maybe's. But, he had the channel before, this is a newer issue. He gets all the rest of the channels off of Mt. Wilson. Maybe if he could give us nearest cross streets, we might get a better picture...
It may be "new" to the OP, but not to numerous others. It depends on how long he has been getting KOCE OTA. I have not noticed any MAJOR problems getting KOCE since late last year, over 6 months at least. I had problems just a few days ago, as I posted. This is in the same window as the OP. The problem can come and go within minutes and escape attention. So, it some ways, it never really goes away. Until KOCE is allowed more power, this will be a fact of life with KOCE for SOME people, FOREVER! I still recommend the OP call KOCE and try to speak to someone in Engineering. I've heard they have talked to some people and have been of some help, even if to just confirm the viewer is SOL.
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