Long Cable Runs

[atp1313]

What is the safe limit of cable runs before signal degradation from the 5LNB or the multiswitch?

My father is getting D* installed mid-September and will be feeding two receivers in his house, but he also has a B&B cottage on the back of his property. This may be a pretty tough non-standard installation:

• The house is on the National Registry of Historic Properties (about 200 years old)
• His house is tucked into some pretty decent tree cover (mostly Grand Live Oaks for volume with some pines for height).
• The house has a tin roof, so roof mounting will not be possible
• Chimney mounting might be a possibility, but these are 200 year old chimneys with 200 year old mortar.
• Mounting to the eaves would not likely be approved by the local Board of Architectural Review. He should know...he is a board member, and so is one of his neighbors.

The best spot (IMO) would have the dish on a pole about 25-30 feet from the house, pointing back over the house towards the southwest. The only place on the property without dense tree cover would be directly over the house (with some oak branches overhanging the fringes of the roof). Once mounted to the pole, the runs would be about 25-30 feet to the house/switch, then TV1 would be about 15-20 feet from switch. TV2 would be about another 75-100 feet from the switch. Then to run a cable to the cottage, maybe another 150 feet from the switch or 100 feet from the dish directly...though I would imagine all cables will have to come from the switch. If it makes a difference, the B&B would only be using a standard SD receiver (no HD, no DVR). The two TV's in the main house would both be HR20's.

So, given all that info, assuming mightily that LOS can be achieved, will it work? Or is that too long for the signal to travel? Right now he has digital service from TWC in the house and Knology in the cottage. Both are runs of about 300-350 feet from their respective street access/driveway. TWC has had lots of image problems to the point that they installed an amp at his drop/connection to the street trunk, and that gets the signal there, but most times it appears to be pretty darn over-sharpened...lots of video noise. He likes my setup with D* and just wants what's going to work.

He called D* and asked for a site survey first, but they said they couldn't do it without setting up a full install. If, when the technician arrives, we cannot find a suitable/agreeable location for LOS and SS, they will cancel the install for no penalty.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but figured I would answer your questions before you asked them of me.

 

[charper1]

I think I read 175 - 200' but not 1000% sure on that. Oh, and the installers nor DirecTV do pre-installation site surveys to my knowledge, BUT you can get one done if you think you can't do it yourself.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Consider two dishes....if that will shorten the runs...or one dish on a pole with runs going to each building. They do not have to be in series like cable. Line of Sight controls where the dish must go.Expect around $2.00 / ft to dig in dual cable...$4.00+ for two duals.(need a trench)

Drilling old brick (thick) walls is a problem. Roto hammer drills just wreck them. Consider cable entry points that go through wood parts on window & door frames.

You can paint these things and as long as you don't block the front area dishes can be placed in large shrubs to hide them.

I have done a few 200+ft runs that work ok. The HD folks say 100ft max & solid copper cable. If you really gotta do a long run consider rg11 cable.

You are way off the FREE installation with most of the above.

Joe

 

[atp1313]

First of all, thanks for the thorough reply... :

Drilling old brick (thick) walls is a problem. Roto hammer drills just wreck them.

The chimneys were all just repointed about 3-4 months ago for the first time since the house was built about 200 years ago. So in better shape now, but still ancient stuff.

You are way off the FREE installation with most of the above. ... Consider cable entry points that go through wood parts on window & door frames.

Thanks. The "free" install was never really a deal breaker. Dad is aware that as with everything else there is a premium to living in such an historic home and having the yard that he has. The drilling won't be a problem as the house is raised about 5 feet off the ground with nothing but stand-up crawl space underneath, so drilling up through the floors (discretely) is not a problem. In fact, the cable company already did the drilling so he could reuse existing holes (preferred).

If you want to get an idea about what we are dealing with, check out the B&B website and check out the slideshow on the main page. The back yard pictures are the truly helpful ones. There is a picture of the back deck with a palmetto tree bordering the left edge of the frame. This is looking about 30-degrees west/north of the ideal LOS (IMO). The spot I recommended for him would be about 20-25feet back-right of the spot that picture was taken from.

one dish on a pole with runs going to each building

So coming directly off the dish going two directions can work? Would he need a second multiswitch if the second run to the cottage is only going to feed a non-dvr SD STB?

I have done a few 200+ft runs that work ok. The HD folks say 100ft max & solid copper cable. If you really gotta do a long run consider rg11 cable.

How likely is it that an installer will have this solid copper cable on his truck? Should I go out and buy some and have it on hand for when he arrives? And is that 200 ft total length, or 200' per section (Dish to switch then switch to STB)?

as long as you don't block the front area dishes can be placed in large shrubs to hide them.

The last thing he needs to do is introduce more foliage into the equation. I understand what you mean in terms of hiding the dish so it is not unsightly, but there is plenty of buffer between him and neighbors, so one littel dish isn't going to piss anyone off...it's where that dish is mounted that could set off alarm bells.

 

[iwc5893]

Don't be surprised if D* makes him get two accounts for the setup, especially considering the B&B would probably have to be a business account (as in way more money).

The two dish route would be the best solution, as it would minimize the cable runs and reduce trenching costs.

 

[iwc5893]

How likely is it that an installer will have this solid copper cable on his truck? Should I go out and buy some and have it on hand for when he arrives? And is that 200 ft total length, or 200' per section (Dish to switch then switch to STB)?

The "maximum" allowed run by D* is 125 feet from the dish to the STB. Longer runs have been known to happen.

And yes, the installer better have solid copper RG-6 cabling on his truck.

 

[atp1313]

So the solid copper JoeDiamond was referring to above was "just" RG6?

And no way to make two different runs off one dish?

 

[iwc5893]

So the solid copper JoeDiamond was referring to above was "just" RG6?

And no way to make two different runs off one dish?

Yes.

And yes, it can be done. It just requires more custom labor charges for the trenching and cable past 125 feet (depending upon your HSP's custom labor charges) with a powered multiswitch (and you'd only need one). The reason for the powered multiswitch is the length of the cable runs involved.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Yup,

The center wire in the coaxial rg6 cable can be solid copper or copper covered steel. Engineers build service factors into stuff. That is where the 100ft & the solid copper comes from. Short cut the specification and you are on your own. Success is ignored but screw ups make your phone ring.

Directv was installed with some success before the HSP gang arrived. Most are competent while some work hard at keeping their fly up and their shirt (nice & blue) tucked in. If the HSP guy can't or won't do what you want look around...offer the HSP tech a private contract on his day off to try what you want.

Joe