Legacy machines and applications

[jrp]

I was compiling some programming (as in informational/educational/recreational programs about outdoor related things) for my board at work over the last week. The numbers go from 1997 to the present and I had to look through monthly reports and add up the people that had attended different programs.

I had hard copies for most of it, but a few individual reports were missing. In these cases I could look up the original files on my computer and read them, even though many were in very old versions of Microsoft Word.

I was, however, missing seven month of hard copies from 1999 (must have been a millennial thing). When I looked at the files, they were from a word processor called FullWrite (FullWrite Professional - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), a long since dead piece of software. It first ran on Mac OS 6 and continued through OS 9. You could run it in Classic mode for those versions of OS X that supported Classic.

I had to dig up and boot the oldest box still in the office in order to find an OS that could run the application. It was an interesting trip down memory lane. I'd still work in FullWrite if it was supported. In many ways it could STILL compete with the bloat that is MS Word. You can even download the app today, though I don't know what you'd do with it (Free FullWrite Professional™ Document Processor).

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Interesting post. Neat trip down memory lane.

I don't think I could try it to see how it compares with what I use -- since I only have a LION box, but I have escaped (most of the time) from the bloat that is Microsoft Word, for a venerable mac app -- that is still supported - and recently updated -- Nisus Pro Writer 2. I love it. It saves files in RTF by default, it has all of the features from Word that I use, and none of the bloat that I don't care about. I have been writing with it for several months now. A few glitches here and there, but a very solid program. I do my writing in Nisus and sometimes in Devonthink, the database that pretty much organizes my life.

 

[jrp]

I'd forgotten about Nisus. Interesting that it is still supported. Too bad I have 14 years worth of Word documents at my office.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I'd forgotten about Nisus. Interesting that it is still supported. Too bad I have 14 years worth of Word documents at my office.

It reads and can save word documents, If it didn't I would never have considered it. Even Lion compatible for full screens. Its worth taking a look at. They have a demo. I looked at all of the mac-only word processors to see what was out there, and liked Nisus the best. I still have Office 2011 on my machine -- and for spreadsheets, Excel is still the best. Certainly better than Numbers. But I am weaning about 85% away from Word.

 

[TheForce]

In another thread I mentioned needing to support several older software applications That don't run in Vista or Win7 Home.

I upgraded my new computer's Windows7 Home to "Professional" that allows you to run in windows XP virtual machine. Now I have old windows card file from windows 3.0; Quicken 2006; Photoshop 5.0; and Pagemaker 7.0 running great. The install of Quicken was the most challenging as I had to manually install the dll files to windows XP/ system folder since I have long since lost the floppy install disks for quicken 95.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

In another thread I mentioned needing to support several older software applications That don't run in Vista or Win7 Home.

I upgraded my new computer's Windows7 Home to "Professional" that allows you to run in windows XP virtual machine. Now I have old windows card file from windows 3.0; Quicken 2006; Photoshop 5.0; and Pagemaker 7.0 running great. The install of Quicken was the most challenging as I had to manually install the dll files to windows XP/ system folder since I have long since lost the floppy install disks for quicken 95.

OSX 10.7.1 does not provide a way to run Power PC apps anymore; Apple decided that it was time for people to move on and eliminated support for Rosetta.

 

[TheForce]

I recall Apple has always done that. Its the best reason why I stayed away from Apple. Even with my old 3D Studio projects that ran on an 80486 and Dos 3.0 I had to go back and make some updates many years alter. I pulled the C drive on my pentium machine and stuck in the older dos drive with 3D Studio and brought up the project. The hardest part was remembering how to work in DOS.

I have a friend who loves Apple computers and he keeps a closet full of older machines to run older software.

 

[jrp]

I hadn't had a need to run FullWrite, or really even thought of it, for several years. That is why, however, I have kept a box around that can still run in Classic Mode.

While it would be nice to be able to just fire up the old stuff, what I really should have done was save all those old files in a Word format, something FullWrite could do, when we converted the office over to Word. I could still do that, but it seems so unlikely that I'd really need to access files that old again, especially since I have paper copies of ALMOST all of them.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I recall Apple has always done that. Its the best reason why I stayed away from Apple. Even with my old 3D Studio projects that ran on an 80486 and Dos 3.0 I had to go back and make some updates many years alter. I pulled the C drive on my pentium machine and stuck in the older dos drive with 3D Studio and brought up the project. The hardest part was remembering how to work in DOS.

I have a friend who loves Apple computers and he keeps a closet full of older machines to run older software.

Not sure about prior to OSX, but they provided support through rosetta through the first six iterations of OSX. Jobs made Lisa and Macintosh incompatible intentionally, and made Macintosh incompatible with Apple II as well, but as the bio is making very clear - it was Steve's way or the highway.

 

[TheForce]

Mike- I don't recall the cute Apple version names but I can tell you that when I bought my Macbook Pro and Final Cut studio, a $4500 purchase, in a few months they offererd a new OS. I heard that they were selling it but you could get a disk and install it for $29.95 so I thought fine! I'll try that. Then my Machead friend gave me a warning that I should really install it on a clean hard drive to be sure and save the older one, just in case. He knew I would not be happy if my Macbook Pro required all my apps to be upgraded too. Glad I did because I discovered that the new OSX did not support my version of FCP studio, nor parallels and Apple wanted me to buy the upgrade for $499. Yikes! and that was for a software application that had failed my performance requirements. So, I now have the original hard drive with FCP ( that works as it is designed but doesn't meet my requirements) and Parallels with a licensed copy of windows XP and Vegas 8.0 licensed copy installed. Plus a second hard drive with the newer OSX, Was that called snowflake? can't recall but I have no apps installed because they would all require upgrade$. I spent a little over $5000 on that Macbnook pro project that turned out to be a complete disaster.

 

[navychop]

We need to set up classes for CP/M & HDOS!

 

[radio]

In another thread I mentioned needing to support several older software applications That don't run in Vista or Win7 Home.

One of the BEST answering machines I ever used, (and still do) is the Microsoft Cordless Phone MP-900. Takes calls on PC, forwards or pages a a number you choose, archives the audio (great for us radio people) for using in other ways, and can e-mail the files. The NEWEST O.S. it runs on is windows Me. Believe it or not, it can't even INSTALL on a system newer than that, even when powered by Microsoft's windows! And, it was a GREAT system! Wish it could run on a newer PC! We use it at two radio stations to make sure all calls are forwarded without "call forwarding" fees or setups.

 

[jrp]

Newer is not necessarily better.

 

[radio]

Agreed!

 

[TheForce]

radio- so far I haven't been able to foil win 7 in win XP mode but then I haven't needed to run any apps that require IRQ interrupts or hardware control like my old diaquest frame controller or even the Fast VM board set. Of course the Diaquest/Truvision and Fast board set required 2 and 3 ISA slots. So I don't think these would do just because of hardware incompatibility. I wonder if your phone application would still work in win XP mode? The win 7 does offer some win 95 compatibility but I don't have anything that works to test it. The cardfile app was an original Windows 1.0 I believe.

Navychop- I always figured you as a COBOL guy. My first formal programming language was Fortran.

 

[radio]

I've never been able to get to install! (even XP) It says, "not supported! If it would install, I could run a compatibility mode! Maybe with all these minds here there'll come an idea! I've had to start looking for old laptops still running that will take my Me/98 discs! (new stuff doesn't like going backwards as you know!) It really IS a great system! uses serial port for com, and operates a cordless phone that screens calls, voice-announces caller ID at phone and/or handset, too!

 

[jrp]

Fortran! That takes me back to college!

 

[klang]

Fortran, RPG, COBOL and IBM Assembler were what I was taught in college. I'm trying to look at programming for Apple devices and it is hard to wrap my old mind around it.

 

[navychop]

.....Navychop- I always figured you as a COBOL guy. My first formal programming language was Fortran.

I started with hard wired 401/403 accounting machines. First programming language was Fortran II. Later, learned that fatal disease, BASIC. Favorite became Pascal or ADA. First computer was a RCA Cosmac VIP with an 1802 CPU, using assembly language mostly. Still remember a couple commands (F8 unconditional jump, 32 conditional branch). Later moved to Z80s and Heathkit. Still remember being taught to program the IBM 360 and realizing it had a much simpler instruction set than the Z80 or even 1802. Didn't like the C variants; they were so hard to read later unless you had good documentation. But efficiency really counted. Took a class once where all the examples in the text were in FORTH, and not a one of us had ever used FORTH. But it was so easy to read you could easily follow the reasoning.

Worst language I ever had to program in: SNOBOL. Nothing like COBOL. I STILL have difficulty believing it actually worked, it was so "random" and unstructured. I think it's main purpose in life was to aggravate the hell out of programming students, a task it did very well.

But you're right, the programming I did for the government was in COBOL. Good old, boring, tell me 5 times, COBOL. Sadly, all gone from my memory (along with my UNIX) when Y2K resurrected a lot of old COBOL guys and made them a lot of money.

Today, who learns the old programming languages? Things have moved on to web stuff - Java, HTML5 or a "programming environment." MS Visual Studio, anyone? Those of us that used those languages are all "legacy."

But, that old 1802 system still works, so I've got a legacy machine for sure. I think the only app I still have on it is an artillery game I wrote. Crude visuals, of course.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[TheForce]

You must be as old as my Dad. (90) He was programming IMB 360 when I was a kid. (Airforce Security headquarters in San Antonio ) I remember him explaining to me how punch cards works just before he retired from the AF. My very first computer class in college was Basic and we learned it on a teletype with punch tape. Then I didn't use a computer until the Rat Shack Model 1 came out. I remember Pascal too but it went away about the same time I gave up on it. My whole game was trying to use a computer to automate chemical processing for the plant from my lab. My last language I learned was SPL. I wrote a complete small chemical plant operating system with order entry, bill of materials, formulations, inventory control and invoicing. Took me nearly a year to write that. To give me a jump start, I hired one of my scuba students to teach me the language.