Just a quick technical question about signals and distance

[mcasdorph]

I know that terrain, trees and other obstacles can affect the receiving of the signals, but I've been tinkering with my Ariel antenna today, trying to pickup a local station to watch Mash & Andy Griffith, since none of the channels I'm getting with dish are airing those shows without changing my package.

There is a station WTAP that is 45kw and it seems to come in decent I guess, I'm about 24.2 miles from the transmitter.

This other station is 15kw and I wasn't getting any hits at all.

So my question is, Is there any way of roughly calculating the distance these powered stations can reach? Or a general rule of thumb when trying to calculate this?

 

[FTA4PA]

I know that terrain, trees and other obstacles can affect the receiving of the signals, but I've been tinkering with my Ariel antenna today, trying to pickup a local station to watch Mash & Andy Griffith, since none of the channels I'm getting with dish are airing those shows without changing my package.

There is a station WTAP that is 45kw and it seems to come in decent I guess, I'm about 24.2 miles from the transmitter.

This other station is 15kw and I wasn't getting any hits at all.

So my question is, Is there any way of roughly calculating the distance these powered stations can reach? Or a general rule of thumb when trying to calculate this?

Have you tried entering your exact coordinates (latitude and longitude) into http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29 and seeing what they predict to be available at your location based on strength, terrain, etc? You can also adjust the height of your antenna in their calculator to see different predictions.

 

[mcasdorph]

I've used AntennaWeb before, TVFool appears to show more information, I'll see what I can do with it, thanks

 

[Mr Tony]

There is no magic" way of predicting how far a station reaches but other than the items you noted (terrain, trees) one big thing is antenna height (of the station in question)

Low Powered stations can be up to 15k watts but the height can make the difference. In Minneapolis there are 7 low powered stations. All are 15,000 watts and towers are within a few miles from each other.
The ones that are easy to get the antenna height is around 750 feet
The ones that are a pain in the butt to get....antenna height 450 feet

Since you mentioned WTAP looking at the info for that station and the 2 low powered stations in the area (CBS & FOX)
all are about 620 feet in the air. So it goes back to power
CBS & FOX...15Kw
NBC (WTAP)..315Kw

 

[larrykenney]

You can also go to the FCC web site and see complete information on every station in the country, including a map showing the coverage area. A station might be omni-directional, with equal signal strength going in all directions, or it might be directional where the signal is stronger in one direction than it is in another, so looking at the map you can see the coverage for the station and see if your city is within the designated coverage area.

Here's the URL: http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=XXXX where you replace the XXXX with the callsign of the station. You might find several forms shown for the station... their current facility is the one labeled "Licensed". If you see more than one form that shows licensed, check for DT, CA, LP or -D - those are the designators for the main station. DT=Full Power station, CA=Class A station, LP=Low Power station, and -D=translator station. DX is for Auxiliary operation, STA is Special Temporary Authority, etc. Once you select the main form for the station you'll see something like the following:

Licensee: FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.

Service Designation: DT Digital television station
Transmit Channel: 44 650 - 656 MHz Licensed
Virtual Channel: 2 (viewer sees this channel number)

Network affiliation: FOX

File No.: BLCDT-20091204AAD Facility ID number: 35703
CDBS Application ID No.: 1423741

37° 45' 19.00" N Latitude 122° 27' 6.00 " W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization: Horizontal (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 1000. kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 512. meters HAAT -- Calculate HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 542. meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 288. meters AGL

As you see here, it shows the licensee, transmit channel, frequency, virtual channel, network affiliation,
transmitter location Latitude and Longitude, power, and lots more. Down toward the bottom of the form
you'll see "Maps: Service Contour on a Bing map (41 dBu)". Click on that to get the coverage area.

Happy searching!

 

[andy_horton]

When I lived in Middleport, OH I could receive all the stations from where you are approx. are located. Couldn't get all of the Huntington/Charleston stations I was designated for, however, even with an outdoor antenna. Strange.

 

[mcasdorph]

You can also go to the FCC web site and see complete information on every station in the country, including a map showing the coverage area. A station might be omni-directional, with equal signal strength going in all directions, or it might be directional where the signal is stronger in one direction than it is in another, so looking at the map you can see the coverage for the station and see if your city is within the designated coverage area.

Here's the URL: http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=XXXX where you replace the XXXX with the callsign of the station. You might find several forms shown for the station... their current facility is the one labeled "Licensed". If you see more than one form that shows licensed, check for DT, CA, LP or -D - those are the designators for the main station. DT=Full Power station, CA=Class A station, LP=Low Power station, and -D=translator station. DX is for Auxiliary operation, STA is Special Temporary Authority, etc. Once you select the main form for the station you'll see something like the following:

Licensee: FOX TELEVISION STATIONS, INC.

Service Designation: DT Digital television station
Transmit Channel: 44 650 - 656 MHz Licensed
Virtual Channel: 2 (viewer sees this channel number)

Network affiliation: FOX

File No.: BLCDT-20091204AAD Facility ID number: 35703
CDBS Application ID No.: 1423741

37° 45' 19.00" N Latitude 122° 27' 6.00 " W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization: Horizontal (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 1000. kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 512. meters HAAT -- Calculate HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 542. meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 288. meters AGL

As you see here, it shows the licensee, transmit channel, frequency, virtual channel, network affiliation,
transmitter location Latitude and Longitude, power, and lots more. Down toward the bottom of the form
you'll see "Maps: Service Contour on a Bing map (41 dBu)". Click on that to get the coverage area.

Happy searching!

Thanks, Another great site.

When I lived in Middleport, OH I could receive all the stations from where you are approx. are located. Couldn't get all of the Huntington/Charleston stations I was designated for, however, even with an outdoor antenna. Strange.

I'm in Sherman, WV, with a good antenna I should be able to pick up Parkersburg channels and Charleston/Huntington channels, I pretty much get WSAZ (2 channels), WCHS (3 channels), WVAH (2 channels), WOWK (2 channels) and WLPX (6 channels). The Parkersburg ones are the ones that are harder for me to get.

 

[Kraven]

Please post your TV Foil info if possible.

 

[FTA4PA]

Also, please post which antenna and pre-amp (if any) you are using. I have found that location is everything when trying to get 2Edge signals and higher isn't always better. Before winter last year there was a station about 57 miles away from me that I could pick up while standing on my front porch holding the antenna. When I put it up on the mast with the pre-amp it went away - go figure. Going to work on it again in the spring. To find that 'sweet spot' your probably going to have to try several locations around your property and different heights until you find one where everything you want (or a reasonable compromise) comes in.

 

[mcasdorph]

Please post your TV Foil info if possible.

TVFool info attached!

Also, please post which antenna and pre-amp (if any) you are using. I have found that location is everything when trying to get 2Edge signals and higher isn't always better. Before winter last year there was a station about 57 miles away from me that I could pick up while standing on my front porch holding the antenna. When I put it up on the mast with the pre-amp it went away - go figure. Going to work on it again in the spring. To find that 'sweet spot' your probably going to have to try several locations around your property and different heights until you find one where everything you want (or a reasonable compromise) comes in.

I dont know what model it is, just an old Aeriel antenna, no amplifier

 

[Blindowl1234]

Depending upon the terrain hills etc...that will make a difference. Anyone that lives in Ohio, Ky, WV knows we've got some big hills etc that play havoc with digital tv. If you can get the antenna up above the roof a bit and maybe hook an amp to it you might get some of those weaker 1 edge stations too.

 

[Radioguy41]

Get yourself a good mast-mounted pre-amp, like a Channel Master CM-7777 for instance, it could easily make all the difference in the world. Checking footprints via those websites is a nice start but in the real world things can be very different i.e.; terrain, buildings, aircraft flight patterns. My primaries are in Philadelphia, about 65 miles south of me. Depending on the wind direction the approach to ABE airport crosses directly between me and the Phila towers and if air traffic is heavy the signal becomes unwatchable. Fortunately for me that's only when the wind is out of the east which is not all that often. The reason I mention that is because that's the type of conditions that the footprints can't predict. As I said, get a pre-amp and you might even consider a rotor, I see them at flea markets often and companies are still selling new ones.

 

[mcasdorph]

Well I got a different antenna, off of ebay, I now get channel 22, which is 15kw power, according to wikipedia, all 3 stations are broadcast from the same tower, now if channel 47 is also 15kw, shouldn't I be getting that channel too, since I'm getting 22?

 

[Radioguy41]

A little confused here. 22 is located in Clarksburg while 47 is in Parkersburg, approx 75 miles away. How can they be on the same tower? Do you mean 44?

 

[boba]

Please clarify your posts?
What did you buy for antenna?
What direction are you aiming the antenna at?
What channels are you receiving?
What channels are you trying to get? Please list both real and digital broadcast numbers?

 

[Trip]

WOVA-LD 22 is in Parkersburg.

22 is a much lower frequency than 47, so it's possible that 22 makes it over the terrain and 47 doesn't. Not 100% sure of that, of course.

- Trip

 

[mcasdorph]

A little confused here. 22 is located in Clarksburg while 47 is in Parkersburg, approx 75 miles away. How can they be on the same tower? Do you mean 44?

22 (WOVA-LD) is in Parkersburg, I don't know where you got 75 miles away? its only 24 miles from me.

Please clarify your posts?
What did you buy for antenna?
What direction are you aiming the antenna at?
What channels are you receiving?
What channels are you trying to get? Please list both real and digital broadcast numbers?

What I get:
Station Real Virtual
WSAZ - 3 23 3.1
WCHS - 8 41 8.1
WVAH - 11 19 11.1
WOWK - 13 13 13.1
WTAP - 15 49 15.1
WOVA - 22 22 22.1
WLPX - 29 39 29.1
WQCW - 30 17 30.1

What I'm trying to get:
WIYE - 47 47 47.1

FP-9000 is the antenna, generic, but seems to pick up better than the aerial antenna I had up the other day. And its motorized, so I can rotate while on the DTV(OTA) signal meter on the Dish receiver.

 

[Radioguy41]

Since you didn't post the call letters a lookup produced channel 22 in Clarksburg. Difficult to be accurate without all the necessary information. Good luck.

 

[FTA4PA]

Since both signals are of the same strength, on the same tower (one only two meters higher than the other) that pretty much leaves the distance two different frequencies are able to travel (as Trip said) or the antenna itself. Have you tried adjusting your antenna higher/lower or at different locations around your property?

 

[mcasdorph]

Since both signals are of the same strength, on the same tower (one only two meters higher than the other) that pretty much leaves the distance two different frequencies are able to travel (as Trip said) or the antenna itself. Have you tried adjusting your antenna higher/lower or at different locations around your property?

not yet