Internal Hard Disk Drives in Dish Receivers,

[H2Guy]

This is a question for the technical savvy members. I am looking to keep my older receivers up and running as long as possible. One major reason is that my Duo receiver feeds a distribution panel in my house and is the source of Dish service for my guest bedrooms and area's where I don't watch TV very often. I would end up paying twice as much if I switched to the Hopper, Joeys and Wally's and so on. I think that was the major reason Dish dumped the 722 and 922 receivers. Money!

So here's a technical question, I know my 922's uses a Seagate ST1000VM002 1TB hard drive.
According to a friend that use to be a dish network technician both the 722 and 922 were very robust and that the hard drive attributed to about 90% of the failures.

So with that said here's the question? Do I go ahead and buy a spare Seagate HDD new drive and just put it away for when my original fails, or is it possible that an SSD 1TB sata drive could be used to replace the original Seagate part.

If so, it would use less power, generate less heat, work much faster and make the unit more responsive especially using playback features. If I wasn't worried about screwing up my working 922 I would buy one and try it.

On top of that I don't know exactly what the replacement procedure would be for a new drive. On a PC its easy, unknown on a receiver.

So if a 1TB SSD drive would work there is no sense in purchasing a spare Seagate HDD now. SSD's continue to come down in price and are far superior in every way to Hard drives.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

 

[dweber]

In the past Solid state drives have not been recommended for DVR use. Supposedly newer solid state drives have overcome this problem. Here is an article describing the problem.

The hardware problem

In past years, solid state drives have had another problem. The average hard drive can stand up to millions of read-and-write cycles, while early solid state drives were limited to about 100,000 cycles before being prone to fail. That may seem like a lot, but keeping in mind that your DVR is always buffering and recording, 100,000 reads and writes could be no more than a few months of use. That problem has been fixed for the most part in newer drives, but it’s too soon to see those fixes in a DVR; they’re usually years in the making.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[primestar31]

This is a question for the technical savvy members. I am looking to keep my older receivers up and running as long as possible. One major reason is that my Duo receiver feeds a distribution panel in my house and is the source of Dish service for my guest bedrooms and area's where I don't watch TV very often. I would end up paying twice as much if I switched to the Hopper, Joeys and Wally's and so on. I think that was the major reason Dish dumped the 722 and 922 receivers. Money!

So here's a technical question, I know my 922's uses a Seagate ST1000VM002 1TB hard drive.
According to a friend that use to be a dish network technician both the 722 and 922 were very robust and that the hard drive attributed to about 90% of the failures.

So with that said here's the question? Do I go ahead and buy a spare Seagate HDD new drive and just put it away for when my original fails, or is it possible that an SSD 1TB sata drive could be used to replace the original Seagate part.

If so, it would use less power, generate less heat, work much faster and make the unit more responsive especially using playback features. If I wasn't worried about screwing up my working 922 I would buy one and try it.

On top of that I don't know exactly what the replacement procedure would be for a new drive. On a PC its easy, unknown on a receiver.

So if a 1TB SSD drive would work there is no sense in purchasing a spare Seagate HDD now. SSD's continue to come down in price and are far superior in every way to Hard drives.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

It won't work. Dish has the specs for certain drives built into the firmware. Any drive that doesn't match, just flat-out won't work/ be recognized at all.

 

[arlo]

Technically speaking I have several Seagate 2 TB hard drives harvested from abandoned Dish, Direc receivers.
Repurposed to use in pc's. I agree that SDD's may not be ready for DVR usage.
Many of the Seagates I've stood by as being "the best" in recent past have failed just out of warranty. Including the video specific series of drives.
On the other hand Western Digital drives are quite robust and reliable. I have 2 of their video, dvr specific drives that just work. With DVR's you're not really looking for speed. With sequential read/writes they are designed for continuous video usage. Not too bad.
One of your concerns:
"If so, it would use less power, generate less heat, work much faster and make the unit more responsive especially using playback features."
At least Dish/Direc and possibly other DVR drives have a 'bit' set in the firmware to set PUIS. Or Power Up In Standby. It means just that. Instead of a PC drive that needs to be spun up and perhaps after a period put to sleep (platter motor shut down, etc). The DVR drives are mostly idle unless being called upon to record or playback.
Taking a few seconds to come to life from idle, platter spin up, etc. May address the response question.
So it gets freaky at first when installing one of the drives in a pc and seeing it in bios/uefi but not being able to use them.
One program. HDAT2. Will allow you to set the puis bit to allow the drives to spin up when power is applied.
If this is the case, the drive being 90% of failure. Then it would lead to the controller board on the drives failing rather than the head/motor/platters. I just don't think that SSD tech is ready for DVR usage unless things have changed very recently.
Although I hate Apple with a passion. Even their Mac Studio using solid state storage is not using SSD's. But not HDD's either. More like even more of their not-user-servicabe/upgradable hybrid tech where an obvious looking SSD is just a pack of proprietary memory and controller. Of course. Open to discussion on the entire subject.

 

[H2Guy]

Thank you both for the great explanation. I think I might just pick up a spare new Seagate and save it as a spare. Is there any secret installation tips or simply remove, re-install the new drive and power up?

 

[Bobby]

Thank you both for the great explanation. I think I might just pick up a spare new Seagate and save it as a spare. Is there any secret installation tips or simply remove, re-install the new drive and power up?

Keep in mind that it can't be just any Seagate, it must have specific model numbers. All the rest won't work.

 

[Altitudinous]

Dish has the specs for certain drives built into the firmware. Any drive that doesn't match, just flat-out won't work/ be recognized at all.

This. I can attest to the firmware limitation in my owned Hopper 3. It came with the 2GB Seagate ST2000VM003. I tried replacing it with the more current ST2000VX008, thinking that maybe it would accept another Seagate brand video/surveillance type drive. Nope. Decided to use that one for another EHD. Got another ST2000VM003, installed, up and running in 15 minutes. A firmware change would be nice if possible to allow additional models than those that came out around 2012 to be used.

I think I might just pick up a spare new Seagate and save it as a spare. Is there any secret installation tips or simply remove, re-install the new drive and power up?

I did the same thing. I have a spare ST2000VM003 on the shelf. It one fails, I'm back up in 20 minutes. Yes, remove, install new drive, power up. At least on the H3. I assume the same on the 922.

 

[ethanlerma]

One major reason is that my Duo receiver feeds a distribution panel in my house and is the source of Dish service for my guest bedrooms and area's where I don't watch TV very often. I would end up paying twice as much if I switched to the Hopper, Joeys and Wally's and so on.

Well, I can think of some ideas of how to accomplish the same on a Hopper system. You could buy a RF Modulator, an inexpensive device that takes a composite signal (All Hoppers except the Duo have a Composite/Component output, the Duo and Joeys only having composite), then spits out a analog RF signal on either Channel 3 or 4, connect that to your distribution panel and you should be good to go (unless you have something else using said channels). If the TV's on your system are Digital, you could also opt for a ATSC Modulator. These have a much higher upfront cost, but spit out a ATSC Digital channel in full HD when fed HDMI or a Component signal. Of course if you are happy with what you have then keep trucking, but its still something to think about if you want to have an HD image in your guest room's, or the day comes when Dish decides to shutdown VIP series receivers.

 

[H2Guy]

Excellent suggestions, I was not familiar with a ATSC modulator and was looking into HDMI over CAT5E but from what I can see they are flaky at best. Very few of them will work at any distance. Dish seems to make a portion of money on equipment fees (even if you own it) so if you have limited people in you house (in my case only 2 most of the time) a single hopper 3 possibly with a joey with the ATSC feed or HDMI might be an answer for the future. Considering all the TV's in my house are smart I was hoping to move away from Dish but this requires some getting use to (and my wife does not have the patience) Thanks again for the great comments!

 

[Bobby]

Excellent suggestions, I was not familiar with a ATSC modulator and was looking into HDMI over CAT5E but from what I can see they are flaky at best. Very few of them will work at any distance. Dish seems to make a portion of money on equipment fees (even if you own it) so if you have limited people in you house (in my case only 2 most of the time) a single hopper 3 possibly with a joey with the ATSC feed or HDMI might be an answer for the future. Considering all the TV's in my house are smart I was hoping to move away from Dish but this requires some getting use to (and my wife does not have the patience) Thanks again for the great comments!

The Joey is a client of the Hopper and will not work as an ATSC tuner. It uses MoCa and is a standalone receiver as far as watching programs all coming from the Hopper. You can be watching a program on the Hopper and an entirely different program, including recorded programs on the Hopper, on the Joey. The Joey costs $7 a month and can be worth it if each of you want to watch different programs on different TVs.

 

[ethanlerma]

The Joey is a client of the Hopper and will not work as an ATSC tuner. It uses MoCa and is a standalone receiver as far as watching programs all coming from the Hopper. You can be watching a program on the Hopper and an entirely different program, including recorded programs on the Hopper, on the Joey. The Joey costs $7 a month and can be worth it if each of you want to watch different programs on different TVs.

I believe he means to have a Hopper for regular usage, then a Joey feed the ATSC tuner via HDMI that will then provide programming to the other TV's in his home.

 

[H2Guy]

Exactly, I need to be able to have 2 independent sources. I could use ATSC/HMDI but that could only be able to provide a single source. I was even thinking about keeping an older 211k to provide a separate HMDI and coax source for the distribution coax feed but as I understand it I would have to cheat and get a different satellite dish different then the one that feeds the hopper. I currently have the 211k for my office and I use it in my RV.

 

[telstar_1]

What I'm getting dish did with hopper was to do away with separate viewing out of the same rx box (as with pre-hopper duo rx). Thus requiring a box (and a separate fee) at every set wanting to view a different program. It always seemed like they would take 2 steps forward but then one back. What I always wanted for my sat customers was a single box to spit out like 4 different programs, with a "communal" shared DVR drive, all on RF remotes, and so no need for any box at all at sets, beyond (maybe) the 1st. But they only regressed.

 

[ethanlerma]

Exactly, I need to be able to have 2 independent sources. I could use ATSC/HMDI but that could only be able to provide a single source. I was even thinking about keeping an older 211k to provide a separate HMDI and coax source for the distribution coax feed but as I understand it I would have to cheat and get a different satellite dish different then the one that feeds the hopper. I currently have the 211k for my office and I use it in my RV.

Let me suggest doing the opposite in that case, have the Joey for normal usage in your main room then the Hopper on the distribution system. Reason being is that while the Joeys do have RF remote connectivity, the antenna is internal and therefore quite limited in range. All Hoppers except the Duo model have an external RF remote antenna like your receivers do now and should have comparable range (and even if they do not, extensions are an option). You can still try the Joey, if the home is small enough and/or walls thin enough it may not be an issue.

And regarding your 211, you don’t necessarily need a separate dish, but rather a switch installed. A switch will take the satellite outputs on your current dish then provide multiple connections for receivers. If you were to go Hopper3, a DPH42 would be the way to go, this switch provides connectivity for two of any receivers Dish has launched to date (or a lot more on commercial installations with Wally’s, but that’s besides the point).

 

[H2Guy]

I don't know this for sure but I don't think Dish will allow me to have the 211k online in conbination with a Hopper. Granted in my current configuration they think its in my RV but right now its up and running in my house being fed by a Dish 500 satellite dish. Another issue I have is the walls inside of my house are Adobe and RF signals don't got thru the walls very good. In order to have WIFI in my home I have 2 commercial access points to make that work. I'm probably getting brain fry from that lol. In order to get the 722 secondary receiver remotes to work I had to use 2 antenna's one on the box itself and then a splitter on the distribution node to get them all working. I have noticed that the 922's have much greater range and if I do end up swapping out the other 722 that will no longer be a problem.

Thanks all for your fantastic suggestion, over the last week I have learned a great deal of knowledge thanks to all of you!

 

[ethanlerma]

I don't know this for sure but I don't think Dish will allow me to have the 211k online in conbination with a Hopper.

They will. The rule on that is a max of two Wally and/or 211 series receivers for RV usage per account, regardless of the home Hopper/VIP setup.

 

[H2Guy]

2 Last questions, since the 922 Im sure has a lot of time on it and I noticed it is very dusty I am thinking I might just pull the cover and blow it out with some compressed air. The fan inside is probably packed with dust. I also downloaded that HDAT2 program and might just refresh the drive this way If there are some bad sectors they can be locked out. BTW, not that it affects the operation of the unit does anyone know where I could score a replacement door for this unit. My guess is the original owner just lost or misplaced it. Thanks again all an have a fantastic new year!

 

[TheKrell]

BTW, not that it affects the operation of the unit does anyone know where I could score a replacement door for this unit.

Often those doors broke off. I would be stupefied if you found a replacement for a 922. Perhaps if they're the same as the 722...

 

[H2Guy]

No Joy on the 722 door its different and doesn't fit. Not a major deal, I just thought if one of the vendors that are on the site that might have one laying around. lol

Glad I pulled the drive and ran Hdat2 on it. It found an locked out a bad block at the beginning of the drive. I ran a full test when I was done and it came up perfect, reset the PUIS bit, put the drive back in the unit and were ready to go. It also got a good internal cleaning and some synthetic oil on the fan bearings.

One thing I found interesting, this unit had a Hatachi 1TB drive, I was under the impression they all had Seagate ST1000VM002 drives. I wonder if they are interchangeable. I know where I can buy a new Seagate but the Hatachi will be a little harder to find.

 

[arlo]

Wow. Glad it worked for you. A little foggy. Did you turn off puis to diagnose and fix it and then turn it back on when done before putting it back in the receiver?
Don't bank on that hdd though. Bad blocks sometimes leads to more bad blocks in the near future.
The best thing about Hitachi drives is tearing them down and making wind chimes with the platters.