Intermittent ~vertical~ KU reception w/Hauppage PC card

[Dee_Ann]

OOPS... I just discovered that I posted this in the wrong forum. Sorry about that. I hope a moderator can move it to the proper section..


I’m trippin out over this, I have no clue what’s up with this. I’m thinking the tuner card is failing.

I have a windows PC with two Hauppage tuner cards in it.

I have an HVR-1250 ATSC OTA tuner - http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1250.html
and a WinTV-NOVA-HD-S2 - http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_novahds2.html

I’ve posted some screen shots below.

Anyway, here’s what’s been happening. A week or two ago I tried to watch Doctor Who on EBRU G19. There was no signal. Hmmm.. I checked and the weather was clear, it was cold outside and everything else was coming in fine.
Then I recalled that the plastic over the LNBF (it’s a Direcway) had disintegrated and maybe ants had gotten into it again. A few years ago that happened and shut it down. Or maybe a spider made a web in it.
So I go outside with a can of compressed air and blew out the LNBF, just in case. It was dark and I couldn’t really see anything in the tube but blew it out anyway. I went back inside and bingo, the channel was back on.
So I watched a few episodes and all was well. Then a few days passed where I didn’t watch. I saw Doctor Who was on again so I switched to that dish and once again I had no signal. Well bummer.

I go back out again with the compressed air and hit it a few good shots but I didn’t get a signal this time. Then I thought maybe it had to do with the big changes they made on G19 at New Year’s so I downloaded a current .ini file for Galaxy 19 and tried to rescan the satellite. Horizontal transponders all came in but not one single vertical transponder would scan in. Well it was like 11pm at night so the next day I went outside and took the LNBF off the dish, thinking it had either bugs or water in it. I took it completely apart and got to the circuit board inside. The pathways were all clean and clear and the circuit board was also clean and dry. I could see nothing at all wrong with it. So I cleaned everything up extra clean, like new and put it all back on the dish. Still no signal on vertical. So I was thinking MAYBE the switch was bad. I replaced the 22khz switch but that didn’t do it. I swapped out the Discque switch but that didn’t do it either.

I then removed the switch completely and just ran it straight through, still no vertical. Then I took my little meter outside, it’s that little handheld meter that also has a screen and a tuner built in. I hooked it straight to the dish and I was getting all of the horizontal and vertical signals as if nothing was wrong. It worked perfectly as it should. So then I go into the house and I remove the wire from the back of the PC and connect it to the meter. Still working perfectly, getting everything as it should be. I put the wire back on the PC and then it’s back to no vertical again. :

The very same tuner card however was tuning MeTV, Movies! and Bounce plus the other stuff on SES1 C-band. Weigel stuff on SES1 is vertical. Why would it tune C-band vertical but not KU vertical?
Both signals are fed to the same tuner card over the same wire.
The other tuner card, the ATSC OTA tuner card had no issues at all, it was functioning perfectly but I wanted to mention that since it is an integral part of the whole thing.
I tried numerous times over the next several days to rescan G19 and every time I would get only horizontal transponders on KU but when I put my meter on the wire it picked up everything perfectly.

The app is called MyTheater, it’s deadware and hasn’t been updated in years, apparently the Russian that published it gave up on it years ago.
Quite a few years ago someone (my ex) installed it on the PC, when I had zero clue about anything. I was an ignorant button clicker at the time.

The reason this app was installed was because at the time there was no other app that would deal with unusual switch setups.
I’ve found no real need to switch from it other than it simply being badly outdated and now unable to handle some of the newer FEC rates being used and odd video formats such as Movies! uses.
Later I would look into the other satellite tuner apps and most of them were also deadware and were simply terrible and I did not like them, most were confusing, hard to understand and not one of them would allow unusual switch setups such as I have.

I assumed that the KU circuit in the card must be flaking out so I gave up on it for a few days and decided I need to start trying to figure out how to replace it. It seems these cards are not very easy to come across anymore. :cry:

I was about to compose this post and I wanted to get a few screen shots of it showing how it wouldn’t scan any vertical transponders so I ran the scan again and all of a sudden it’s working again! :
Now I’m totally confused. I don’t know what to do and now I don’t trust this thing. I’m sure that it’s either the tuner card or the app. I know of no way to test to determine if the app is at fault.
I did a full power down on the PC, several times. I powered it down, turned off the switch on the back and removed the power cord. I figured that should reset it incase it was suffering a little digital anxiety but that never made any difference.
Nothing has changed between the last time I tried and it did not work and this time when it did work. I have not powered it off or changed anything between then and now. It just decided to work all on it’s own.

This is the first time it has ever done this to me so I have no idea. I am not a computer guru, I don’t know anything about windows or the MyTheater app, I’m a Mac OSX user and all I use it for is photography and surfing.
I am not a programmer and wouldn’t have any idea how to program a computer. I’m still an ignorant button clicker when it comes to computers.


One huge disappointment has been that it (the pc tuner card) absolutely will NOT operate an HH motor, period. No way, no how. Fine. That’s why I ended up with multiple dishes and weird switch setups.

One of the wonderful things about my setup is that with this setup, it combines OTA and FTA usage into one, seamless unit. I can hit the channel up and down button and hop from FTA to OTA and back again with a single remote control as if they were a single tuner all rolled into one.

That has been such a treat to have everything “all in one”. I’ve not been able to find anything else out there that will do this.

At one time there was some talk that the AZBox could MAYBE, “coming soon” be able to tune US ATSC and FTA S2 all in one tuner.
I tried to keep up with that but I found the subject very confusing and obfuscated and impossible to follow and I was never, ever able to get any absolute, definitive YES/NO answers that would have allowed me to go forward and make the purchase. As far as I could figure, there was some weird problem with their add-in ATSC tuner card that never quite worked right but was “going to be fixed soon”

After giving up on it for a few years I went looking again last year and saw that AZBox dropped all those type tuners and went to some rinky-dink flimsy tuners that are strictly FTA only and that OTA is off the options list, permanently.

So what I’m wondering is if there are any other FTA S2 and ATSC OTA tuner cards for a PC that will work with the MyTheater app and have the two cards operate as one seamless unit the way they do now?
Remote control is an absolute must. A single remote control that operates both tuners as one.

One other option I'm entertaining is buying a second MicroHD. I know it won't tune OTA but the PC OTA tuner card it working just fine. I would just have to switch between the two I suppose, no more seamless integration as I have now. And I would end up with even ANOTHER remote control to juggle here at my desk where I do most of my TV watching anyway. I do have the first MicroHD in my bedroom so that I can watch pretty much anything I want from there but like lately, if I wanted to watch Doctor Who on EBRU I would have to go lay in bed to watch where I can't do internet at the same time. I just fall asleep so why bother?
Of course though if I do get another MicroHD then that will solve the problem of not being able to operate an HH motor from that room. Then I can get a second HH motor and have two motorized KU dishes which I could operate from either room. Now that would be handy.

I am rather attached to the PC tuner setup though, I've been using it for several years and it's very handy and I can record stuff to disk and keep it forever or edit clips to post online if I want.
If my tuner card is going flaky I think I would seriously consider searching for replacements that will operate the same way they do now. If that's not possible then my next option would be a second MicroHD.

The one I have now has been working flawlessly and I have no complaints at all, I would buy another and I would recommend one to anyone shopping for a GOOD tuner. The only problems I ever had with it were not of it's own making but because I was using old, flaky disk drives to record on. All my own doing.

Thanks!

(The channel list shown below has a lot of old, dead channels in it that I haven’t gotten around to cleaning out yet.)

 

[Magic Static]

The problem sounds like a polarity voltage switching issue. 13v = Vertical and 18v = Horizontal. The point at which the switch is made is around 15.5v. Now if that threshold has changed in the LNB and dropped to under 15v and the PC tuner is putting out a bit more than 13v vert then the LNB would appear to work only in Horizontal polarity with the PC tuner and not other STBs. You would need to measure the voltage output from the pc tuner to verify this, or swap out the LNB?

About the Nova S2: I use MyTheatre and a Hauppauge ATSC tuner. I used to use the Nova S2 also. But as you saw it is not compatible with all signals (FEC rates).
I replaced the Nova S2 with a TeVii S464 PCI tuner. The TeVii is compatible with MyTheatre and 3/5 FEC and Movies!

 

[Dee_Ann]

The problem sounds like a polarity voltage switching issue. 13v = Vertical and 18v = Horizontal. The point at which the switch is made is around 15.5v. Now if that threshold has changed in the LNB and dropped to under 15v and the PC tuner is putting out a bit more than 13v vert then the LNB would appear to work only in Horizontal polarity with the PC tuner and not other STBs. You would need to measure the voltage output from the pc tuner to verify this, or swap out the LNB?

About the Nova S2: I use MyTheatre and a Hauppauge ATSC tuner. I used to use the Nova S2 also. But as you saw it is not compatible with all signals (FEC rates).
I replaced the Nova S2 with a TeVii S464 PCI tuner. The TeVii is compatible with MyTheatre and 3/5 FEC and Movies!

Hmmm.... So what you’re saying is that it still could be the LNBF? And, it could maybe be the tuner card?

Today the silly thing is working as it should. So I’m totally lost as to what’s going on.

Today it’s raining and really nasty, cold weather so I’m not going to mess with it. Maybe later in the week if it dries up and warms up.
This is the closest thing to an actual winter that we’ve had in quite a few years and it’s not at all conducive to outdoor activities.

Considering that it uses it’s own weird LNBF that can’t be swapped out for anything except an exact same type. I was lazy because of the rain so I borrowed photos of one from ebay where I found a replacement for about $40.

It’s so weird that it works great sometimes and other times, not at all.

I am baffled as to why it would operate the C-band stuff just fine but not the KU.


I’m thinking that maybe I should put together a different dish that will accept a standard 40mm LNBF. I have a PLL type I can use.
I also have a brand new SL2PLL sample sent to me by Eugene at SatAV that I need to test and report on.

Thank you Eugene at SatAV !


After hearing how your new tuner card does work with the newer things I am going to look into that.
Maybe I’ll get one of those AND another MicroHD so I can operate a second HH motor.

As for your system though, that you have two different brand tuner cards installed, do you have to use two different remote controls, each respective to it’s brand?
Or can you use one remote to control both cards as if they are one, unified card?

Thanks !

 

[Magic Static]

The fact the C-Band stuff works ok and it's just the KU is what really makes me think it's the LNB.
The TeVii card comes with a remote. You only need one to run MyTheatre.
I don't use a remote myself. My HTPC needs don't include a remote . But everything else needs a remote

 

[Dee_Ann]

The fact the C-Band stuff works ok and it's just the KU is what really makes me think it's the LNB.
The TeVii card comes with a remote. You only need one to run MyTheatre.
I don't use a remote myself. My HTPC needs don't include a remote . But everything else needs a remote

I hope it’s just the LNB.. If that’s all it is I’ll be happy. I would rather not shell out for another tuner card at the moment.

There’s nothing I can do about it for a few days, we’ve had two days of cold, heavy rains and it will take a good while for my yard to dry up where I can go mess with anything out there.

I think what I’ll do is take the arm/LNBF off another Direcway that I’m not using at the moment. I think the dishes and arms are nearly the same though I know they made at least three, maybe four variations on their LNBF and transmitters.
I have four of the dishes and three of them have three different LNB’s. I’m hoping it’s ok to change the entire arm since you can’t change just the LNBF except with an identical type. VERY ANNOYING design!


It’s very comforting to know that if I change out my tuner card that the new remote will control both the tuner cards even though they are even different brands! I was always worried about that, it’s held me back from ever making any changes to the system.
Even if it turns out that my problem is the LNB and not the tuner card it would be worth it to go ahead and replace it if for no other reason than being able to get the 3/5 FEC that this one will not. That has been annoying me for a long time.
Some of the PBS channels won’t come in on the Hauppauge, I never could get FSTV on it nor Movies! and a few other odd channels gave me a hard time.
I didn’t know that MyTheater would do the 3/5 as I don’t see it listed in the scan options. But your conformation that MyTheater can indeed do 3/5 with a different card renews my hope that the app hasn’t yet reached the end of it’s life.
I was afraid it had become so badly outdated and unable to adapt that it would soon become useless. What a shame the guy doesn’t keep working on it, it’s basically a pretty good app but it needs a little updating..

 

[Magic Static]

MyTheatre is a very good app for my uses. I also thought there was no support for the 3/5 FEC because it's not in the dropdown list. Turns out it will auto tune all the settings with the TeVii card. I don't have to select QPSK or 8PSK and the FEC rates. But it really does need a couple hardware updates. There are way better tuners out there I would love to use in MyTheatre. And there are a couple of issues I would fix but it still is way better than DVBDream. I have been trying to work with DVBViewer. It supports ATSC cards but I have not been able to get it to run the Hauppauge ATSC card correctly. The sat tuners work fine. It definitely is setup way different than MyTheatre.

 

[Dee_Ann]

MyTheatre is a very good app for my uses. I also thought there was no support for the 3/5 FEC because it's not in the dropdown list. Turns out it will auto tune all the settings with the TeVii card. I don't have to select QPSK or 8PSK and the FEC rates. But it really does need a couple hardware updates. There are way better tuners out there I would love to use in MyTheatre. And there are a couple of issues I would fix but it still is way better than DVBDream. I have been trying to work with DVBViewer. It supports ATSC cards but I have not been able to get it to run the Hauppauge ATSC card correctly. The sat tuners work fine. It definitely is setup way different than MyTheatre.

Thank you, this is very helpful to know. I’ve been looking at the TeVii cards and they seem affordable enough.

One thing that has been extremely annoying to me with the Hauppauge cards is that their remote controls use a strange “code” sequence in the IR signals. Universal remotes are unable to replicate it accurately, even the learning type don’t like the weird code that Hauppauge uses. The Hauppauge remote is very weak and wimpy, you have to get pretty close to the eye for it to work.

When I was trying to use it to provide whole house video I was using those stupid remote cone pyramid repeaters to operate the thing from other rooms. Well, the cones were picking up something from somewhere, I could never figure out what but it was receiving some radio signal which caused it to transmit a continuous nonsense IR signal that severely interfered with it’s proper operation. I could see this because they have visible red LED’s to show you what they are doing. I could move them around and it would help a little but it never would stop completely. Aiming the remote at a cone had to be done in under 8 feet. Any further and it just didn’t respond, I guess because the remote isn’t bright enough. Other remotes I have are so powerful that I can operate them from under my blanket! The IR is so bright it goes right through the blanket and works the TV from 10 feet away. That’s how they all should work.

When I became a Dish subscriber I found that they don’t offer a radio remote for my tuner so I bought a little UFO looking thing http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C1Z0HA
and it’s been excellent for use with my Dish system. But it absolutely will not work with the Hauppauge remotes. What a massive disappointment. I’ve come to the conclusion that Hauppauge is it’s own weird BS that doesn’t like to play well with anything else, period.

If for no other reason than my dislike of their remote control issues, I would happily replace the thing. Actually I should just go ahead and do it, especially after reading what you’ve had to say on the TeVii and the 3/5 problem.
I would love to have a card that uses a remote that isn’t hostile to being cloned so I can use a bigger, nicer, higher power, illuminated remote that won’t mind having a Next Gen transmitter added into it. And to be able to get Movies! and whatever else is out there with weird FECs..

OMG. I’m becoming such a nerd... :nerd:

Anyway...

So everything is still at a full on dead stop. My yard is flooded with freezing water that won’t likely drain off for days. We’ve had THE MOST MISERABLE winter in years and years now and there’s no real end in sight. We are supposed to warm up a little this weekend but the weatherman warned not to get used to it because our roller coaster yoyo ride is not even close to being over yet.
I really never thought I would see the day but I’m here to say that I’m really, really tired of this weather and I’m ready for spring already ! Not summer though! Just spring..

I don’t know when I’ll ever be able to get back outside and get things done. I have soooooo much to do out there but not in this weather !!

 

[Magic Static]

The Nova S2 was the most expensive card I bought. I was looking for an S2 card compatible with MyTheatre and there are very few. I saw you were running the Nova S2 so I bought it. It was buggy and after awhile I looked for another card and came upon the TeVii cards. They bundle their version of MyTheatre (MyTeVii) with it. It's the latest version of MT's base DVBCore software but they wrote out the ATSC/DVBT capabilities. I have Prof and TBS tuners I would rather use but no DiSEqC in MyTheatre.

You are pretty keen on the remote thing. I never used one with the HTPC. I hope it works for you. My TeVii remote is still in the box, unopened batteries and all.
I am waiting for the spring myself, but it will be a little later than yours

 

[updatelee]

for around the $80 price range you cant beat the Skystar 2 express HD (pcie) or the tbs5980 qbox2ci (usb)

Neither are in the v4l mainline tree but are very well supported in crazycats, tbs's, and my tree's. Both have the latest stv090x revision demod, support blindscan, spectrum scan, and other nice features.

UDL

 

[Magic Static]

I was eyeballing the Skystar card the other day But going from PCI to PCIe right now presents a logistical nightmare for me. But I see the writing on the wall. I need a new computer anyway, socket 1156 is so 5 years ago

 

[updatelee]

You don't have any pcie slots? Even one of 8 year old boards has one

UDL

 

[Magic Static]

You don't have any pcie slots? Even one of 8 year old boards has one

UDL

Not without totally blocking the air intake on one of my video cards. I have been studying the idea of a PCIe extension ribbon cable and mount the card in a different slot.
Or swap the ATSC tuner from PCIe to PCI type. and you can buy so much stuff out there that doesn't quite live up to expectations or hype I hate to invest a ton of money into something that "should work". Been there done that

 

[osu1991]

Not without totally blocking the air intake on one of my video cards. I have been studying the idea of a PCIe extension ribbon cable and mount the card in a different slot.
Or swap the ATSC tuner from PCIe to PCI type. and you can buy so much stuff out there that doesn't quite live up to expectations or hype I hate to invest a ton of money into something that "should work". Been there done that

Personally I would get rid of the pci type ATSC card and go with the Silicon Dust HD Homeruns networked tuners, if possible. They work awesome for me, however I don't have sat cards in the pc and I don't use MyTheater so not sure on compatibility for your use.

I have mine out in the media closet next to router. Just connect power and screw antenna into it then connect ethernet between it and router.

 

[Tron]

Another vote for the SiliconDust networked tuners. Most trouble free ATSC recording ever, and they will work with any modern PC on your LAN.

 

[Dee_Ann]

The Nova S2 was the most expensive card I bought. I was looking for an S2 card compatible with MyTheatre and there are very few. I saw you were running the Nova S2 so I bought it. It was buggy and after awhile I looked for another card and came upon the TeVii cards. They bundle their version of MyTheatre (MyTeVii) with it. It's the latest version of MT's base DVBCore software but they wrote out the ATSC/DVBT capabilities. I have Prof and TBS tuners I would rather use but no DiSEqC in MyTheatre.

You are pretty keen on the remote thing. I never used one with the HTPC. I hope it works for you. My TeVii remote is still in the box, unopened batteries and all.
I am waiting for the spring myself, but it will be a little later than yours

I’m definitely very dependent upon the remote control. The keyboard & touchpad for the PC is like itty-bitty. I bought a FAVI ultra tiny little thing, it works really well but it’s not exactly very practical.
My problem has always been operating the thing from other rooms. Arrrrrgh !!

As for the Nova card, it has been very reliable for me with the exception of the odd FEC and some of the strange formats like whatever it is that Movies! is doing. A few PBS channels won’t come in on it but I think they are FEC related.
I could never get FSTV but it’s FEC, again.. That’s been my only real complaint with the tuner itself.

As to the remote, I’ve always been very unhappy with their oddball remote that doesn’t play well with others. I would love to get away from their idiotic remote. I would love to have one of those fancy remotes that has a touch screen, I forget the brand but they are a little pricey but very cool. Harmony, I think? If I could have an RF remote, that would be the ultimate! I despise IR remote controls with all my heart and every fiber of my being! Dinosaur technology from a bygone millennium. And all the methods for converting IR to RF are lackluster at best. I’ve had pretty good luck with the little UFO thingie I mentioned a few pages back, I forget the brand but it won’t work in remotes that only use two batteries. You have to have four batteries for it to work right, or at least that’s been my experience.

Personally I would get rid of the pci type ATSC card and go with the Silicon Dust HD Homeruns networked tuners, if possible. They work awesome for me, however I don't have sat cards in the pc and I don't use MyTheater so not sure on compatibility for your use.

I have mine out in the media closet next to router. Just connect power and screw antenna into it then connect ethernet between it and router.

Another vote for the SiliconDust networked tuners. Most trouble free ATSC recording ever, and they will work with any modern PC on your LAN.

Do they have HDMI output? Can you plug a disk into them? Or, even better, will it record over the lan to a remote disk or remote pc? That would be cool !
What about video inputs from other sources?

Thanks!

 

[osu1991]

Do they have HDMI output? Can you plug a disk into them? Or, even better, will it record over the lan to a remote disk or remote pc? That would be cool !
What about video inputs from other sources?

Thanks!

No HDMI, it is a network tuner that you plug into your router or network switch and they are discoverable by any pc on the network. Most people use them with Windows Media Center for cable and OTA than is built into Win 7 thru Windows XP. Microsoft removed WMC from Win8 so I don't have WMC in my Windows 8 desktop, so I use Nextpvr for recording OTA from the Silicon Dust tuners and VideRedo to remove commercials from .ts files. I had to create my own xml file and use a plugin in the npvr software to get guide listings for the US, but it works just like my Dish dvr now.

http://www.nextpvr.com/

The latest gen 4 has dlna so the live tv tuners can be streamed to any dlna device. I have the 3rd gen. I just make the recording folder shared on my network and watch files on my wdtv and laptops or networked tv's that can view .ts files. I use vidcoder to make the ts files into mp4 if I want to shrink them and take with me on tablet.

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/hdhomerun-dual/

3rd gen HDHR3-US Dual you can get remanufactured that work great from Newegg. Looks like they have gone up a few dollars. I bought 2 more about 3 weeks ago for $54 each. They are $63 now

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815345017

 

[osu1991]

We had some discussion of the using the HD Homeruns at the end of this thread.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/327527-OTA-DVR-Looking-to-pull-the-plug-on-cable/page9

 

[Tron]

Didn't know about the dlna capability. I think I'll retire my 1st generation models...

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well the winter blockade continues, still too nasty to work outside, my yard is a swamp and a mushy mud stye.
I can’t do ANYTHING outside.. :cry:

Last night I tried to use my C-band dish to watch MeTV and I had nothing. It’s a dual output LNBF so I went to check on my MicroHD in the other room and it was working fine. So the problem was with the tuner card in my PC.
I fiddled around with things and and after switching channels several times on the MicroHD, like switching between the C-band and KU LNBFs and doing the same on the PC, I finally got signal back on the PC.

I believe the tuner card in the PC is going out.

I’m going to buy one of those TeVii cards.

If the weather will ever break and let my swamp dry out I need to get out there and do some major overhauls on my stuff. I bought a bunch of 3” PVC pipes so I can dig up the old 1.5” pipes and run more cables through them.
I’m having all the trees cut down and I have to take all my dishes down which is going to be a huge pain in the butt. Well, everything is going to get a big overhaul.

I have new LNBFs to install and test and report on as I promised the wonderful folks at Satellite AV.. Thanks guys! Y’all rock !

It’s been so frustrating this winter, being unable to do anything outside. I have sooooo much to do!

But next on my agenda is to replace this flaky Hauppage card..

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well I think I might have just saved myself $100...

I have installed the dual output SL2PLL on my “lawn chair dish” which is the HH dish on my MicroHD. As expected, it works flawlessly.
And here’s where the dual output came to my rescue. I have been having trouble with my PC, Galaxy 19 going in and out on the vertical. Hrrrrm....

So I ran a wire from the second output over to a spare input on the switch for the PC and fooled the PC into thinking this was a different satellite (so I wouldn’t have to delete my existing G19 setup)
I scanned this alternate G19 setup and BAM! Everything works fine.

So now I have two Galaxy 19 configs in my PC and I can pop back and forth between them.

The original, not working right.
The new one, working like a champ.

So I am convinced that the LNBF is gone kaput. Time to change it out. I just hate that Direcway dishes use proprietary parts. That’s gonna be tough to find replacements.
But it’s a low priority and until then I can piggyback off the other dish with the SL2PLL...

I still think I want to buy a new tuner card though so I can get the weird FEC’s that my older card won’t.