Installing Dish - installer rules make it impossible!

[CDH]

Hello,

I'm a former Voom customer trying to have Dish installed today. I have a new installer (3-weeks on the job), who is here right now (Dish 500 for 110/119, Dish 300 for 61.5; 942).

The problem is that he won't use my existing mount for 61.5 due to it being attached to my (very solid!) brick chimney. Its been up there since August of last year with no problems (minor rain-fade, nothing else), but the installer says his company won't allow it. My plan was to have both dishes on the chimney, and use existing cabling.

The installer instead wants to drill into the roof to install two dishes and run completely new cables! Alternatively he says he can do a pole-mount but can't guarantee LOS.

Are the roof-mounts all that bad? (I have a feeling my wife would freak if there are holes drilled into the roof!)

Is a roof-mount really required? Why would a chimney mount 4-5 ft below the top of the chimney be ill advised?

Thanks!

CDH.

 

[Dish Dude]

I don't know which company this is but we actually have equipment specifically made for doing just what you want. Let's see they are called chimney mounts, ask to speak to his supervisor

 

[twillers]

If the chimney's sound, its a great place to install it. Dish Dude is talking about straps. I lagged mine 7 years ago and it's still as good as new.

 

[Dish Dude]

Twillers I would lag it as well, any installation company should have the chimney mounts as well though

 

[CDH]

I don't know which company this is but we actually have equipment specifically made for doing just what you want. Let's see they are called chimney mounts, ask to speak to his supervisor

Thanks for the reply Dish Dude. I did talk to a supervisor, and he said that the company will *not* install onto a chimney. Then called Dish CSR: they said that "Dish won't allow a chimney mount". It seems amazing that they won't do it. Why not something like this:
http://www.hometech.com/video/dssacc.html#GC-CHIMSAT
or the Channelmaster 6212 listed here:
http://www.channelmaster.com/pdf/SatAccess.pdf

Two of those puppies would work perfectly with one for 61.5 on the SW corner and another for 110/119 on the SE corner.

The concern seems to be that in the past they've had problems with collapsing chimneys and they don't want to carry the liability.

I had to abort the install due to my having to go to work, but the alternative plan for tomorrow involves two pole mounts. I'd still rather have them on the chimney, but pole-mounting is better to me than drilling holes into the roof.

What kind of a pole do I need? 1 5/8"? Bigger? Smaller?

CDH.

 

[bcshields]

Yep 1 5/8" Standard fence post at Lowes or Home Depot. Take an extra step and flatten one end of the pole about a foot so the pole won't spin in the concrete when it's sunk.

 

[CDH]

Yep 1 5/8" Standard fence post at Lowes or Home Depot. Take an extra step and flatten one end of the pole about a foot so the pole won't spin in the concrete when it's sunk.

Thanks so much.

In the end (at least I hope its the end!) I called a local Dish retailer who like Dish Dude says that they can/will do a chimney mount. Hopefully they can use the existing 61.5 mount I have and add another one for 110/119.

The only drag is that the installation will be delayed another week because I apparently have to send back my Dish Network issued 942 and instead use one provided by the retailer.

It'll end up costing me $50 more ($49.99 install minus $49.99 rebate instead of $0 install minus $49.99 rebate), but if it keeps screws out of my roof and poles out of my yard then I'll be happy!

Thanks to all who answered!

CDH.

 

[seandudley]

That situation does suck. I'm glad you found someone who will mount it on your chemney. My Voom dish was mounted on the chemney, and the Dish install guys that Dish Network sent out installed my 119/110 dish and my 61.5 dish on the chemney, too. Glad I didn't have that problem.

 

[justalunker]

DISH Installers are the worst in the industry IMO. It's really a shame.

 

[SimpleSimon]

DISH Installers are the worst in the industry IMO. It's really a shame.

As long as you mean DNSC installers, I agree.

You're almost always better off going with a local retailer where you can actually talk to the guys BEFORE anything is done.

As for chimney mounts, the answer is "It depends". There's some chimneys I will NOT touch, and others are stronger than the house. I prefer straps over lag bolts unless conditions are 100% correct - reasonably new, steel-lined chimney, deep enough that the bolts won't hit the pipe.

 

[larrystotler]

The reason you do NOT drill into a chimney is because you can cause the bricks to crack and the crack can get into the liner and cause it to crack and then pressure can build up and cause the chimney to EXPLODE. Granted, the odds of it happening are probably about the same as a direct lightning strike, but that is the reason. If installed to a chimney, you should ONLY use a strap mount

 

[Mike500]

Done right, a roof install is a lot better than an chimney mount.

I do a lot of high end custom installs and repair a lot of bad ones. I've seen DNSC installers abandon dishes on roofs, after they could not get line of sight. From seeing the install after the results of their work, I could have easily known that the installer would have not been able to get a line of sight even before he had began to try. The industry is full of installers who are not well trained to do the job that is called for.

CDH is correct in that he has little confidence in a three week novice, when it comes to mounting dishes on the roof. It takes a lot of experience and the correct screws and knowledge to place a dish securely on a roof deck. The screws must penetrate into the solid roof rafters. Many novices, and even experienced installers mistakenly screw the dish only to the plywood or OSB roof deck, hoping that it would hold. Basically, they also glue the mount to the shingles with silicone sealant, which is really bad, if the mount comes loose. It will just tear off of the roof with a llarge chunk of shingles attached.

I don't particularly like chimney mounts. In the hundreds of installs I've done, I have installed only one, which the customer had insisted upon.

Like CDH, I am in the Greenville-Spartanburg, SC area. I've seen many BAD and some good installs. But beyond the simple ones, some installs are way beyond the capabilities of the standard installer. I've seen many installers ignor the best install locations and install in really bad marginal locations.

Done right, a roof install has very few visible cables. In most cases only the grounding cable comes down to the ground. Also, each dish can be readily removed with only a few small 1/4" holes on the roof that are easily repaired. On a dark roof, the repair would be hard to see, and if a few shingles are replaced, it would be nearly invisible.

My personal dish is installed on my roof.

 

[CDH]

Done right, a roof install is a lot better than an chimney mount.

(...)

Done right, a roof install has very few visible cables. In most cases only the grounding cable comes down to the ground. Also, each dish can be readily removed with only a few small 1/4" holes on the roof that are easily repaired. On a dark roof, the repair would be hard to see, and if a few shingles are replaced, it would be nearly invisible.

My personal dish is installed on my roof.

This is very interesting. Some people for and others against chimney mounts. Certainly food for thought, but it sounds like it does depend on circumstances.

I feel fairly confident that an experienced installer would find that this chimney would be a good candidate for a mount. It is well and truly "over built", with a brick outer layer, then cinderblocks, then an inner layer. The guy who built the house had a chimney-mounted dish before we bought it, he then removed that mount when he moved out and we have had a chimney-mounted Voom dish attached since August.

The local retailer that can/will do a chimney mount that I spoke to here in Greenville sounded a lot more experienced than the outfit that came out to do the install earlier in the day.

On the other hand, the more the installer who was here today talked, the more it sounded that his company (that shall remain nameless) was only interested in doing things the quickest way possible and getting out. Didn't even want to use existing tubes and outlets but wanted to slap dishes on the roof, run new RG6 in through the crawl-space, and then drill holes in the floor of my living room! The idea of integrating my Channel Master OTA antenna seemed completely beyond him.

Anyway, thanks to all for their replies.

CDH.

 

[Mike500]

I do quite a few subcontracted installs in this area. I get them, who are originally from Circuit City, Best Buy, and several local dealers. They sub the special high end all in wall fish installs to me. I might have to run numerous cables from the attic through two floors to the basement or crawl space and all in the wall with no destruction to the walls. I often run additional cables needed for second DirecTV or Dish Network two tuner outlets on outside walls full of insulation. The resultant installations look all like they were placed when the house was built.

I have placed many many dishes on roofs. The cables enter under a ridge vent or under the eave in a small discrete hole about an inch in diameter. If a weather head and special roof flashing is needed, it is installed as prescribed by engineering standards. In the case of ground pole mounts, all cables are the flooded direct burial type for longevity. They enter through the a weatherproof entrance box. All cables are hung on the joist and never laid on the ground. All connectors are the compression type correctly installed and placed strategically to exclude moisture. All grounding blocks are in weather proof boxes.

I go through extraordinary measures to install systems to the highest standards.

 

[CDH]

I go through extraordinary measures to install systems to the highest standards.

I'm glad to know that there are people out there like yourself who take that sort of care. If I run into problems with the retailer that I've contacted then I'll be in touch via PM to see if there is a way to get you to come and do my install!

I'm willing to pay - within reason - to get it done right.

CDH.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Just to clarify my post on chimney lag bolts - the only type of chimney I'd do that on is lined with pipe - triple-wall pipe. In such installations, there is NO heat transfer to the bricks, they are basically decorative.

This is a different type of construction than the typical east coast and maybe midwest chimney.

 

[ScottChez]

What is a DNSC installer and hwo do I know who they are so I can avoid them?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Easy. Buy your system through a local retailer.

Unfortunately, if your'e getting a must-carry wing dish added for locals, that'll probably be a DNSC job - just watch them like a hawk.

 

[fishman]

what do you expect from an installer(dnsc) that gets paid 12 bucks an hour

 

[CDH]

what do you expect from an installer(dnsc) that gets paid 12 bucks an hour

It wasn't his fault that he didn't have the training or experience to do things properly. He was a nice guy trying to get by at a new job.

He couldn't do the install and told me he'd only make $10 for showing up on site. I paid him another $25 because I didn't like the idea of him not making any money for a Saturday morning of work. He didn't want to take it, but I told him that everyone's got to make a living somehow. I think he was grateful.

The next route will be a local retailer who seems to know what they're doing!

CDH.