Installation Problems

[Roadwarrior]

I rolled on a New Connect today. 625 and 322 with an extra room mirrored off of Tv2 from 322.

The house had never had satellite before. They Had digital cable in every room of the house. Most of the lines were RG-59. There were two attics, one with no access. The majority of the living space was actually in a finished basement. It took me nearly 5 hours just to wire the house, only using existing cable for the backfeed.(I was running cables above ceilings, doing two story wall drops, tracing the massive amount of existing cable they had to use for the backfeed,etc.) They were covered up in trees, so the only place I could find to put the dish made grounding the system
pretty much impossible. After I mounted the dish and wired the house, I hooked up the 625, and everything was peachy. Got TV2 working and left it to download. Then comes the 322. As soon as I get a picture, i'm at the point dish screen, no signal. This line was brand new, straight from lnb to receiver, so I knew there was no problem there. I know sometimes I have to run the check switch before I can even get it to show signal. So I did, as soon as the test starts, the reciever shuts off. It comes back on briefly, green light only, then shuts off again. It keeps doing this. I swap out receivers, same thing. I run a heavy duty extension cord to another room. Same thing. I bypass the diplexers(outside diplexer was burning up, I could hardly touch it) Same thing, only this time, when I unhooked the cabel from the seperator, the receiver suddenly comes back on. Hook it back up, bam. off again.

What the hell is going on here. I lost my ass on this job, and I STILL have to go back and figure it out. I'm going to try rewiring it for another room. I know it has to have something to do with the electrical wiring in the house. The room the receiver was going in was an addition, the house was probably 20 or 30 years old. The addition maybe 10 or 15.

I have run into this on two other occasions. Once I merely changed electrical outlets in the same room and it worked. The other time the guy just told me to leave because he had to sleep. He called the office and told them to send out another tech because I was an idiot. They did, he had the same problems. The guy just cancelled.

Has anyone ever had a problem like this before? Why can't this crap just work like it's supposed to?

 

[rcdallas]

I did about 5 months ago on a 322. I had two recievers in a row that did the same thing you described. Third one was a charm.

Mine wasn't an electrical outlet problem.

They could have sent yalls office a pallete of junk. Been seeing alot of damaged stuff lately and failed 381's.

 

[Kru83]

i did new connect for 2 rooms. the job was done in less than 2 hours.... everything is good. i activated the reciever. i went to the ground block attached my ground wire to the meter. and the reciever kept loosing signal. and when i did check switch it would show up the system had 64 sw. and 44 sw. on other input. after 2 hours of troubl shooting. it was bad ground source cause the electrical meter was never grounded properly.

 

[rcdallas]

That's a good reason as to why we should not ground the system. All it does is cause more problems then what it's worth - add more connections for possible failure points.

My fancy 3 dish install I posted about turned into a 12 day trouble call 4 days later because of a grounding problem.

It's real fun when you goto hook to a HOT ground, even better when the homeowner knows it and doesn't bother to tell you.

Lately I've seen alot of grounding problems causing recievers to go hay wire. 3 this week alone.

 

[webbydude]

I rolled on a New Connect today. 625 and 322 with an extra room mirrored off of Tv2 from 322.

The house had never had satellite before. They Had digital cable in every room of the house. Most of the lines were RG-59. There were two attics, one with no access. The majority of the living space was actually in a finished basement. It took me nearly 5 hours just to wire the house, only using existing cable for the backfeed.(I was running cables above ceilings, doing two story wall drops, tracing the massive amount of existing cable they had to use for the backfeed,etc.) They were covered up in trees, so the only place I could find to put the dish made grounding the system
pretty much impossible. After I mounted the dish and wired the house, I hooked up the 625, and everything was peachy. Got TV2 working and left it to download. Then comes the 322. As soon as I get a picture, i'm at the point dish screen, no signal. This line was brand new, straight from lnb to receiver, so I knew there was no problem there. I know sometimes I have to run the check switch before I can even get it to show signal. So I did, as soon as the test starts, the reciever shuts off. It comes back on briefly, green light only, then shuts off again. It keeps doing this. I swap out receivers, same thing. I run a heavy duty extension cord to another room. Same thing. I bypass the diplexers(outside diplexer was burning up, I could hardly touch it) Same thing, only this time, when I unhooked the cabel from the seperator, the receiver suddenly comes back on. Hook it back up, bam. off again.

What the hell is going on here. I lost my ass on this job, and I STILL have to go back and figure it out. I'm going to try rewiring it for another room. I know it has to have something to do with the electrical wiring in the house. The room the receiver was going in was an addition, the house was probably 20 or 30 years old. The addition maybe 10 or 15.

I have run into this on two other occasions. Once I merely changed electrical outlets in the same room and it worked. The other time the guy just told me to leave because he had to sleep. He called the office and told them to send out another tech because I was an idiot. They did, he had the same problems. The guy just cancelled.

Has anyone ever had a problem like this before? Why can't this crap just work like it's supposed to?

We can argue over the pros/cons/merits of NOT grounding. The point is, you didn't ground the system. So we can eliminate any bad groundblocks and/or floating grounds. As another person posted, I too have been running into bad batches of 322's as well as bad separators. When you swapped your 322 out, did you try another separator? I've seen several examples of that sort of thing happening where you do a checkswitch, and BAM!...right in the middle of the test...the damn receiver craps out. Only to find out the separator was the cause.

 

[dishcomm]

I rolled on a New Connect today. 625 and 322 with an extra room mirrored off of Tv2 from 322.

The house had never had satellite before. They Had digital cable in every room of the house. Most of the lines were RG-59. There were two attics, one with no access. The majority of the living space was actually in a finished basement. It took me nearly 5 hours just to wire the house, only using existing cable for the backfeed.(I was running cables above ceilings, doing two story wall drops, tracing the massive amount of existing cable they had to use for the backfeed,etc.) They were covered up in trees, so the only place I could find to put the dish made grounding the system
pretty much impossible. After I mounted the dish and wired the house, I hooked up the 625, and everything was peachy. Got TV2 working and left it to download. Then comes the 322. As soon as I get a picture, i'm at the point dish screen, no signal. This line was brand new, straight from lnb to receiver, so I knew there was no problem there. I know sometimes I have to run the check switch before I can even get it to show signal. So I did, as soon as the test starts, the reciever shuts off. It comes back on briefly, green light only, then shuts off again. It keeps doing this. I swap out receivers, same thing. I run a heavy duty extension cord to another room. Same thing. I bypass the diplexers(outside diplexer was burning up, I could hardly touch it) Same thing, only this time, when I unhooked the cabel from the seperator, the receiver suddenly comes back on. Hook it back up, bam. off again.

What the hell is going on here. I lost my ass on this job, and I STILL have to go back and figure it out. I'm going to try rewiring it for another room. I know it has to have something to do with the electrical wiring in the house. The room the receiver was going in was an addition, the house was probably 20 or 30 years old. The addition maybe 10 or 15.

I have run into this on two other occasions. Once I merely changed electrical outlets in the same room and it worked. The other time the guy just told me to leave because he had to sleep. He called the office and told them to send out another tech because I was an idiot. They did, he had the same problems. The guy just cancelled.

Has anyone ever had a problem like this before? Why can't this crap just work like it's supposed to?

You certainly went overboard for that customer..When you said you lost your ass, I assume you are a contractor. Are you a licensed electrician?...
Ok I have run inot this ..If you use a diplexer that is faulty the 322 will show you that there is no signal..I finally figured out what the issue was after having my supervisor drop off another 322 after I thought the first one and the spare I carry were NG....No it never seems it works like it should..Sometimes I go thru streaks of having troubleshoot new work...It's maddening..I have come to the conclusion that all Dish EQ has a mind of it's own.

 

[Roadwarrior]

Yes, I am a contractor, no i'm not a licensed electrician. I completely bypassed the diplexers and went straight to the receiver. It didn't help. As soon as it tried to pull a signal, it would just short out. (same thing with the second receiver I tried, both remans, and the only two that I had on my truck). I'm going to try a third and drop a hard line for the backfeed when I go back.

I'm going back Tuesday(day off), I guess to just go over everything, and see what I can do to get it working. The customer called me today and said the 625, which was working great when i left last night, was now doing the same thing the 322 was doing. I have no idea what I'm going to do about it. The first guy that went out there ditched it by telling them the receivers wouldn't work without phone lines connected(they didn't have any phone jacks close to the tv). At first I was proud of myself for doing a job that alot of techs would refuse, now I realize that guy was just smarter than me.

 

[Kru83]

Yes, I am a contractor, no i'm not a licensed electrician. I completely bypassed the diplexers and went straight to the receiver. It didn't help. As soon as it tried to pull a signal, it would just short out. (same thing with the second receiver I tried, both remans, and the only two that I had on my truck). I'm going to try a third and drop a hard line for the backfeed when I go back.

I'm going back Tuesday(day off), I guess to just go over everything, and see what I can do to get it working. The customer called me today and said the 625, which was working great when i left last night, was now doing the same thing the 322 was doing. I have no idea what I'm going to do about it. The first guy that went out there ditched it by telling them the receivers wouldn't work without phone lines connected(they didn't have any phone jacks close to the tv). At first I was proud of myself for doing a job that alot of techs would refuse, now I realize that guy was just smarter than me.

dude i know how you feel. specially being contractor cause u dont get paid by the hours like me as dns tech.... good luck with it tommorrow let us know how u made out.

 

[Roadwarrior]

We can argue over the pros/cons/merits of NOT grounding. The point is, you didn't ground the system. So we can eliminate any bad groundblocks and/or floating grounds. As another person posted, I too have been running into bad batches of 322's as well as bad separators. When you swapped your 322 out, did you try another separator? I've seen several examples of that sort of thing happening where you do a checkswitch, and BAM!...right in the middle of the test...the damn receiver craps out. Only to find out the separator was the cause.

I honestly can't remember if I changed the seperator or not. By this point in the install I was completely burnt, I had already put in a full day and then tackled that monster. I'm going to check that first thing. If that turns out to be the problem on the 322, I'm not sure if I'll be relieved or pissed off! At any rate, I still have to contend with the 625. Maybe by starting fresh this time I can figure it out. Thanks all for the advice. I'll let ya know.

 

[Liquidforce88]

Now for all those wall fishes and extra work you did.. Did you charge the customer? That kind of stuff is not included in the install.

 

[webbydude]

Now for all those wall fishes and extra work you did.. Did you charge the customer? That kind of stuff is not included in the install.

Yeah...I was wondering if he meant wallfishes...or if "2 story drops" meant, cable runs on the outside going 2 stories.

 

[Kru83]

Yeah...I was wondering if he meant wallfishes...or if "2 story drops" meant, cable runs on the outside going 2 stories.

well according to dish there is 1 wall fish per reciever.

 

[rcdallas]

No, free standard installation includes 1 wall penetration, 50' line burial and 120' rg6.

Wallfishes are not free unless you choose to not charge.

 

[Kru83]

No, free standard installation includes 1 wall penetration, 50' line burial and 120' rg6.

Wallfishes are not free unless you choose to not charge.

our FSM keeps telling us that its 1 wall fish per reciever. does anyone have proof so i can show it to my fsm.. cause i hate doing wall fish. and that 1 wall penetration rule. dns dont care. they are not gone let the job go down cause customer does not want pay for extra wall penetration or wall fish.

 

[rcdallas]

Your Field Service Manager is absolutely wrong.

Look at the back of the service agreement your customer's sign.

Call corporate and ask them. It's $59 / hr for additional labor. I figure each outlet to be one hour regardless if it takes me 10 minutes or 60.

Since your in the Garden State, depending on the area you work in, it might be a upper class community I'm guessing where they expect something for nothing, which could be why your FSM says to do so.

Standardization across the country is definately not the case here.

On edit:

When I run into a nice home where ideally they want a wallfish, and I personally feel that it's more then it's worth, I point out the fact the likelyhood of causing damage is significant, in which it is; they sign off before I get started. At our office a few months back we had a tech go through a ceiling. It's not worth it. I do know how to do wallfishes well, however I make sure my work is paid for. There has been times where I've done a few whereas it's not worth the headache nor the call, but that's case by case.

This is part of the Bullsh!t as to why RSP/Contractors get screwed out of money that they should earn for their work.

 

[Kru83]

Your Field Service Manager is absolutely wrong.

Look at the back of the service agreement your customer's sign.

Call corporate and ask them. It's $59 / hr for additional labor. I figure each outlet to be one hour regardless if it takes me 10 minutes or 60.

Since your in the Garden State, depending on the area you work in, it might be a upper class community I'm guessing where they expect something for nothing, which could be why your FSM says to do so.

Standardization across the country is definately not the case here.

On edit:

When I run into a nice home where ideally they want a wallfish, and I personally feel that it's more then it's worth, I point out the fact the likelyhood of causing damage is significant, in which it is; they sign off before I get started. At our office a few months back we had a tech go through a ceiling. It's not worth it. I do know how to do wallfishes well, however I make sure my work is paid for. There has been times where I've done a few whereas it's not worth the headache nor the call, but that's case by case.

This is part of the Bullsh!t as to why RSP/Contractors get screwed out of money that they should earn for their work.

thanks for that info, but say customer does not want pay for the wall fish. my FSM Will not let me down the job, he will says just do the wall fish for free. i really dont care cause i get paid by the house. but i just hate the fact that they get stuff for free.

 

[rcdallas]

The twisted side; if based on whether a install will go, you pretty much have no choice. Do it and be done with it.

 

[Kru83]

The twisted side; if based on whether a install will go, you pretty much have no choice. Do it and be done with it.

yeah. our dns office is suppost to get megna pull. its pretty easy to do wall fish with that.

 

[Roadwarrior]

Now for all those wall fishes and extra work you did.. Did you charge the customer? That kind of stuff is not included in the install.

one was a two story drop in the wall, took me forever as I don't do those very often. There were two that I had no choice but to do a closet drop and then through the floor and fish it over a couple of feet to a downstairs closet. I Just couldnt get to the wall cap. No I didn't charge for anything. I had a customer reschedule on me that day already, and if this customer had cancelled because I refused to do a wall drop, my manager would have been on my ass.

Sometimes I just do jobs like this to test myself, or maybe for bragging rights. At any rate, I didn't have much of a choice on whether to do the job or not, when I am dependent on this company to supply me work in the future. They don't have a problem finding techs, and they'll let me go without a thought. They let a new tech go because he took too long on his first install. It's a cut throat business. The customers don't care about you, the company you work for only cares if you make them money and I have many bills.

I'm all for getting paid for the extra work, but the nature of the job sometimes makes it nearly impossible.

 

[Roadwarrior]

Update

Ok, the 322 in fact did have a bad seperator. I finally get it to stay on and run a good check switch, download and activate, when the lnb goes on the fritz. I change it out and all is well, except that one the two tvs I had wired for the 322 backfeed won't pick up the channel. I take the tv that does work into that room, hook it up and it works fine. They are going to get a new tv for me to hook up later this afternoon.

Now, the 625 has been running some kind of boot recovery(?) every 30 minutes to an hour(warning 061). I'm waiting on another tech to hook me up with a new 625 so I can replace that(I did spend all morning backtracing all my lines, replaced diplexers and checked end connectors, it's the receiver, has to be).

They told me that the phone guy who came out monday to hook up their DSL had alot of problems too. He was there about 4 hours.

What a friggin nightmare.

Maybe the house is cursed