In the US, No Sat 82 since Nimiq4, need advice

[2k1Toaster]

Hello everyone, once Nimiq4 went live, I lost all my 82. I tried for a bit to get it, then gave up. Now I am at it again.

I contributed to the footprint of Nimiq4 data, but I see some people very close geographically having it working. So I want to, and hopefully get my HD back.

Currently I have the standard (19in/45cm I think) that came with my system and it was used to get both 91 and 82 before.

Well I am fairly certain I need a bigger dish. If I need a 1m dish or larger, I will. I want to ask to verify, but is it possible to keep that smaller elliptical dish and point it directly at 91, and then get the new bigger dish and point it directly at 82, then combine their reception and send it into my receivers?

Also, does anyone have any good suggestions on where to buy a mega-dish?

 

[2k1Toaster]

And the dish, it probably wont be branded as bell/dish, so I need a Ku band dish correct?

 

[comcast]

you found the right guy! =D

you are so coreect, a larger dish will gain more signal and keep you safe from rain fade. I personally recommend www.sadoun.com and www.kusat.com for supplies & parts. just keep your existing bell/dish pro LNB and use it on your big dish. let's not forget www.dishpointer.com for precise azimuth/elevation angles. :

 

[2k1Toaster]

And will any Ku band satellite work?

Or do I need a Ku band offset dish? Or something completely different?

Also here are two images of my setup incase I am explaining it wrong. I linked to the high res (3Mb) and included some thumbs.

As you can see, the installer used both a Bell LNB and a Dish LNB. So is the one that is not aimed at the centre (The dish one) the one that gets 82? So I would take just that one off, and put that in the centre of the new big dish and aim it directly at 82? Then aim the old dish directly at 91. Then how would I connect these two signals together? I currently have a SW44 (I think) below it as well if that matters. As you can tell I did not install this myself, I had a local installer do it. I am not mechanically inclined and something like this I think is worthy of a pro installation!

Also as a side, is there a recommended maximum size dish for wall mounting? The ground is clay and rock around it. I would rather not have to dig a hole for a post. I do have a window well to a basement room but it is slightly sloped, so could a stand be mounted to that then correctly positioned vertical? I would prefer wall mount though... Like if I got a 150cm dish or larger, would it just fall over if side mounted, or are there special humungo-brackets made just for them?

High Res Photo of Dish: http://www.fusioncontrolcentre.com/TemporaryNick/BellSat/BellSat.JPG
High Res Photo of LNBs: http://www.fusioncontrolcentre.com/TemporaryNick/BellSat/LNBs.jpg

 

[2k1Toaster]

Eureka! It is possible I suppose!

So the magic connector box I need seems to be a "Multi-Dish Switch". I do question the diagram though. Would it not make more sense to run the 2 dishes through a single multi-dish switch and then from there to each receiver then have a separate switch for each receiver? Or is this what that switch I currently have is already doing?

At least I see it is possible now though, so now I need some more understanding of the how and what I need.

I guess the biggest question right now would be the type of dish I need as I need a significant size increase.

 

[Visitor]

Your SW44 is doing the same thing that the two SW21s are doing in that diagram except that the SW44 allows you to connect 2 more tuners (for a total of 4). The SW44 that you have is combining the signals from both LNBFs so if you had one LNBF to 91 on one dish, and another LNBF to 82 on another dish - just think of it as in your current setup - you pulled apart the two LNBFs that are together and installed each of them on it's own dish. So to answer your question, if you have a SW44 already, you don't need the two SW21s. You're really not doing anything to the connections on the switch. All you're doing is separating the LNBFs so that each has it's own dish. You may not have noticed it, but each LNBF you have has 2 wires coming out of it, so you have a total of 4 that are going to the SW44.

This diagram shows how your current setup up is. Just imagine the LNBFs separated. You have all you need - you just need a new dish for 82 to mount one of the LNBFs to.

Let me know how this goes as I have lost a few transponders over the last 3 weeks and I am wondering if getting a bigger dish would help (and thus having 2 dishes instead of the one). I am skeptical and that it won't help but I find it curious that I just lost them over the last month. I wonder if it's the LNBF I'm using or that 82 has shifted more north and me (in the NYC area) is now in the fringe. New LNBF or new dish, this is going to cost money but I want to be sure that it's not wasted if I just can't plain get the signal to those transponders anymore.

I mean, it's annoying to have TSN2 in HD and not TSN HD at all! I would rather not do StarChoice due to their multi-wire dual tuner solution and also that it seems their receivers don't support native HDMI with audio (though I could be wrong about that). On the on the other hand, it stinks paying $$$ for transponders you can't receive.

Edit - when I said that you need a new dish for 82 to mount one of the LNBFs to, I should have also said that you'd need to get a new LNBF as well for the 82 dish if it's going to be a 30+ inch dish, unless you could retrofit it somehow which is probably a headache that you don't need. LOL

 

[comcast]

fortec 39" dish & sw-21 switch

buy yourself the fortec 100cm dish at sadoun and the sw-21 switch to combine 91/82 into your IRD. where do live exactly, are you in north dakota? 91W is left LNB while 82W is right LNB. i hope this helps. :

 

[2k1Toaster]

Thanks guys, I think I get it now. I went out and had a look, and indeed there are 4 wires (2 each LNB) going into the SW44, then 3 going out 1 for each tuner just as it should be.

So all I need is a dish, and move over that LNB to the new one. So I need to find an offset Ku Dish.

I live in Colorado, right on the mountain. The thing is I contributed to that data for the Nimiq4 footprint, and I see people in Texas, US are getting signals, and I am not. Then there are people in Denver (about 100km north) getting good/ok reception on 30" dishes. So if I go huge, I should get into the good/ok or maybe great/good range.

Also what about this new 8phase modulation Bell is using? Does this mean the signal monitor is no longer accurate on the cheap receiver and I should only use the 9242 to check signals?

Thanks again for the help I really do appreciate it.

My Location:

 

[2k1Toaster]

Well I called my installer and he found a used 120cm dish in his stock that he'll give me for $100 including the bracket thing. Since there isnt any shipping, seems like that will save me more than half.

This better get me some signal!

 

[digiblur]

The 8PSK means only receivers with an 8PSK tuner can lock the signal. Older receivers will see 0%.

You'll probably have to cut the grey plastic housing off the LNB (not the white "eye ball"), so you can mount the LNB in the bracket. Don't worry, the grey plastic is not needed, it's a cosmetic thing.

Check out the FTA forums here at Satguys. I'm sure someone has some pics and you'll find tons of tips from people on how to mount the dish properly. And remember, this larger dish will be a little bit tougher to aim than the smaller ones. Small movements and take your time.

 

[DJ Rob]

Hopefully that 1.2m dish will work. That's a great price! I'd drive down there to buy one if he found another one.

I'm north of you a few miles between Boulder and Denver (and closer to the beam) and I was losing 82 at night with a dedicated 30" dish. I finally gave up. Good luck!

 

[2k1Toaster]

The 8PSK means only receivers with an 8PSK tuner can lock the signal. Older receivers will see 0%.

You'll probably have to cut the grey plastic housing off the LNB (not the white "eye ball"), so you can mount the LNB in the bracket. Don't worry, the grey plastic is not needed, it's a cosmetic thing.

Check out the FTA forums here at Satguys. I'm sure someone has some pics and you'll find tons of tips from people on how to mount the dish properly. And remember, this larger dish will be a little bit tougher to aim than the smaller ones. Small movements and take your time.

Oh I am having it professionally installed. I dont have any fancy pants metering equipment or mechanical abilities in the least.

Can the 9242 decode 8PSK? What about the 4100? How do I find this, I wouldnt think this is something mentioned in the manual...

I am fairly certain it will be wall mounted even if it is very low and sort of wall and ground mounted. I live on the mountain and we get winds upwards of 120mph sometimes. 75mph to 85mph nightly is not uncommon, but when a storm rolls in, you better not be on the deck!

 

[2k1Toaster]

Hopefully that 1.2m dish will work. That's a great price! I'd drive down there to buy one if he found another one.

I'm north of you a few miles between Boulder and Denver (and closer to the beam) and I was losing 82 at night with a dedicated 30" dish. I finally gave up. Good luck!

What sort of signal were you getting though? Were you in the 50's and just loosing HD or the whole thing? I am hoping this dish is big enough. And by having the guy install it, if it doesnt work hopefully he can take it back and I will buy a bigger badder dish rather then fiddle with shipping back and forth.

Yeah you are about 100km north of me, but I am about 550m/1800ft higher up in elevation at least so maybe that will work to my advantage.

 

[QCK]

Can the 9242 decode 8PSK? What about the 4100?

The 9242 can decode 8PSK, from what I understand none of the Bell's SD receivers have this capability including the 4100.

 

[2k1Toaster]

I've scouring the web looking for an actual Nimiq4 footprint and I cannot find any. I did find this awesome site though: SatBeams - Satellite Coverage Maps

Anyways, dont they have to file with local governments before the launch and approval of satellites? So shouldnt the footprint be public information if petitioned correctly?

 

[2k1Toaster]

SUCCESS!!!!!


All my HD is back. I did a test before we changed it a little bit and got a much better signal. Instead of flat 0's across the board I was between 50 and 65-ish (before re-aiming). Now I get it all the HD channels I watch, but I have not had time to go through each transponder and check levels. I will tonight.

Also @DJ Rob:
He came over with the dish, and I asked for you and he said he had 2 more of them that he knows of. They were pulled off of a hotel I think. I will take pictures and post more details later. He said he would give it to you for $125 including mount. And he does do work in Denver and would go to install it. Took both of us together about 4.5hours to mount and aim both the old dish (moved it) at 91, the new uber dish at 82, and readjust our real DishNetwork dish because it "drooped". This was partly due to the fact that all data for Nimiq4 was completely off on the Briddog website. We were locking on various Echostar and also BEV91. So after reaiming for a few hours we got it to lock on Echostar 4 @ 77W. The 82 signals blipped on the 9242, going from 0 to 30 to 0 to 30 and so on while we were locked on it. So then we moved it 1 sharpie marker line clockwise and his meter's spectrum analyzer lit up like a christmas tree and was blipping like crazy. Did a rescan and voila. 82.

So apparently it is nothing like what any of the aiming guides said. It is pointed waaaay east compared to the 91 dish. I am surprised we even picked up 82 to begin with a year and a half ago.

So he said he would come up and install it and it would be 3 hours labour + dish + commute time I think.

But if you just want the dish, I am sure he would sell it to you. It is all 1 piece fiberglass with metal mesh inside it. Looks snazzy. It's got some dirt on it, but nothing a few Lysol wipes wont take care of

Ill post more details later, but yes folks full HD is available in the US midwest (even being blocked by a huge ass tree).

 

[pro96]

Take a picture of the dish so we can see the work..

 

[2k1Toaster]

Take a picture of the dish so we can see the work..

It's sort of cloudy and looking like a thunderstorm right now. I will take some photos once it clears.

It's actually one of the guys out of the 2 that came in 2007 to install the original system. It is hard to find competent installers. If it doesnt say DishNetwork or DirectTV, they just dont get it. These guys are pro's. The original setup has been holding strong all this time too. I will get pictures of it all in a bit.

 

[pro96]

It's sort of cloudy and looking like a thunderstorm right now. I will take some photos once it clears.

It's actually one of the guys out of the 2 that came in 2007 to install the original system. It is hard to find competent installers. If it doesnt say DishNetwork or DirectTV, they just dont get it. These guys are pro's. The original setup has been holding strong all this time too. I will get pictures of it all in a bit.

cool thanks, looking forward to see how they did the 91/82 on the 1.2m dish..

 

[2k1Toaster]

cool thanks, looking forward to see how they did the 91/82 on the 1.2m dish..

Actually I kept the original dish and it is aimed directly at 91. Then the big one is aimed directly at 82. I am starting to see some sunshine, so I might go out now.