I read and read and read still need help.

[stonecold]

I been interested in FTA for a while. I been doing alot of reading but really could use some help.

1. since this really is going to be a hobby I figured I want a motorized dish, as even though the dish farm pictures are kinda geeky and cool I dont want one my self. But I still confused what range on the belt would the most FTA come in on. I mean I have very clear large chunks of southern sky but about half the belt is on on side of my house and the the other half , so figuring out which side of the house to put the dish one is going to be important.


2. Size I guess I am still confused how big of a dish I need.

3. Receivers , Recievers, Receivers!!!! So many not enough on line to separate the really good ones from the crap.

4. Can I do anything about these illegal guys, in my effort to get help I found via some googling some local places selling FTA receivers. So I go to there place they have like 1 or 2 models of boxes and nothing but dish network dishes and lnbs. I am not stupid I read enough to understand that dish network lnbs are pointless for legit FTA use. And while they were not directly suggesting any thing it was obvious they were up to no good. These are the people that give fta a bad name. is there anyone I can contact, since I only have my sucpisions but nothing to have the cops swarming in.

 

[skewed]

Well I bought my dish and motor from Sadoun, a supporter of this site. I bought the 36" and I am pleased with it. They sell many different complete dish and motor packages and I am sure one will fit your budget and needs, Now when it comes to the boxes do NOT listen to the hype on the net, I did that and I made a mistake. I think that most peeps here would agree that one of the coolsats would be a wise decision for a first box. The ONLY thing that I like about my viewsat is the USB, when I scan in channels I back up my channel list with the usb and a few times when the box crashed having this back up saved me. FTA is a blast, and it is my hobby. I dont hunt or fish anymore so this has fit the bill.

I hope this helps

I forgot to say look on fleabay for a deal on a used coolie, you can get them cheap with may more models sure to come! Type in coolsat 4000 or coolsat 5000 thats athe best bargins

 

[Mr Tony]

I been interested in FTA for a while. I been doing alot of reading but really could use some help.

thats what we're here for

1. since this really is going to be a hobby I figured I want a motorized dish, as even though the dish farm pictures are kinda geeky and cool I dont want one my self. But I still confused what range on the belt would the most FTA come in on. I mean I have very clear large chunks of southern sky but about half the belt is on on side of my house and the the other half , so figuring out which side of the house to put the dish one is going to be important.

well it depends on location. Where I am (Minneapolis, MN) 1/2 the arc is east of me and half is west. The "normal" arc is 72W-129W for KU Band. Check thelist at the top. You can enter your location in the sat calculator and it will tell you what satellite is what azimuth. Obviously 180 is dead south.

To answer the E or W question depends on location

2. Size I guess I am still confused how big of a dish I need.

30" minimum but the bigger you can go the better. 36" is the most common. I use a 30" and only once in a blue while do I wish I had a bigger dish when a signal doesnt come in.

3. Receivers , Recievers, Receivers!!!! So many not enough on line to separate the really good ones from the crap.

Coolsat, Fortec, Visionsat, Pansat. Ya cant really go wrong on any of those 4. Alot of us have those

Yes there are some "bottom feeder" receivers. Those are basic units that dont have many features on them. A few of us use them for bedroom/basement units.

 

[Fizbi]

... I mean I have very clear large chunks of southern sky but about half the belt is on on side of my house and the the other half , so figuring out which side of the house to put the dish one is going to be important....

Would it be possible to mount the dish up on the roof? The middle (southern most birds) part of the belt might well be up higher than you think. When I installed my Dad's dish I thought for sure trees were in the way. After aligning it all up, I discovered that the signal easily cleared the trees.

As for receivers, I believe many of us, especially me, are avoiding the newer receivers until we see some stability in design and features.

My gut feeling is that some older COOLSAT 5000 scanning features will become harder to find in the future.

My guess is that as the pirates pressure the manufacturers to design boxes to automate the pirate process, we may see blind scan and other nice features disappear. I fear that someday, pirates will bring down FTA and destroy a legitimate hobby.

 

[stonecold]

Well I guess my question is using the calculator link. I put in my zip 34236 ( Sarasota FL ) there my Azmuth and Elevation which from my reading can be handled by motor, but what about skew. I know that old dish and direct dishes had a skew setting since all these skews are different am I going to have to manually adjust the skew each time ?

KU vs C/KU

While it almost double on soudun site KU motorized bundle vs C/KU band motorized bundle. I mean I am kinda drawed to the c/ku setup. A long time ago a local radio dj use to sub to cband services and use to do hunt for wild feeds and came away with some vintage footage on vhs like tom brokaw picking his nose on the nbc feed before they encypted it. I know from reading you guys keep wild feeds hush hush so they dont get scrambled but are there a still wild feeds via cband that are still interesting enough or just strange enough to stand there and watch lol?

 

[stonecold]

Would it be possible to mount the dish up on the roof? The middle (southern most birds) part of the belt might well be up higher than you think. When I installed my Dad's dish I thought for sure trees were in the way. After aligning it all up, I discovered that the signal easily cleared the trees.

As for receivers, I believe many of us, especially me, are avoiding the newer receivers until we see some stability in design and features.

My gut feeling is that some older COOLSAT 5000 scanning features will become harder to find in the future.

My guess is that as the pirates pressure the manufacturers to design boxes to automate the pirate process, we may see blind scan and other nice features disappear. I fear that someday, pirates will bring down FTA and destroy a legitimate hobby.

Yeah well I wish I could get the cops to do something about these two shops I went too. They indirectly implied they supply programing services for the boxes and like I said they only sale dish network lnb/dish antennas . I am not stupid but they thought I was. But you try explianing that a circular lnb is not commonly used for FTA and usually left for paid services, and that a d500 is on the small side for recieving FTA but they dont care. i am affraid that the pirates will kill of legit fta developments.

 

[gillham]

Yeah well I wish I could get the cops to do something about these two shops I went too. They indirectly implied they supply programing services for the boxes and like I said they only sale dish network lnb/dish antennas .

You could ask them if they have any used Coolsat 5000/6000 receivers. A local, not really FTA, shop has a big box of used receivers for $30 each.

 

[Tron]

I know from reading you guys keep wild feeds hush hush so they dont get scrambled but are there a still wild feeds via cband that are still interesting enough or just strange enough to stand there and watch lol?

There are tons of wild feeds on Ku, and on C-Band as well. More HD on C-Band. Lots of feeds to watch, especially news and sports The feeds are the best part of FTA IMO.

 

[delta_charlie]

Hi Stonecold and the group, to help answer your question on what side of the house check out the list at the top of this page or lyngsat.com and check out the different satellites and channels. For example if you are interested in international channels 97w is a must have. If you understand Spanish 30 w is a must have.

Maybe just start with one satellite in mind and a fixed dish. The motors can be a bit tricky to setup. You can always add the motor later. You could also and a second dish to the other side of the house in the event you want to get something on each end of the arc.

Because you are near Tampa you might want to check into an OTA antenna as Florida is a great place for OTA - the flat terrain really helps and I find I can get about 40 OTA channels with a small UHF beam.

Hope this helps, DC

 

[stonecold]

Hi Stonecold and the group, to help answer your question on what side of the house check out the list at the top of this page or lyngsat.com and check out the different satellites and channels. For example if you are interested in international channels 97w is a must have. If you understand Spanish 30 w is a must have.

Maybe just start with one satellite in mind and a fixed dish. The motors can be a bit tricky to setup. You can always add the motor later. You could also and a second dish to the other side of the house in the event you want to get something on each end of the arc.

Because you are near Tampa you might want to check into an OTA antenna as Florida is a great place for OTA - the flat terrain really helps and I find I can get about 40 OTA channels with a small UHF beam.

Hope this helps, DC

I have not had much luck with OTA. I will get the antenna aim and get a strong singal on say wfla and pick up its digital stations and it will work for a while and then stop working and I have to fiddle with the antenna again. I also have alot of multipath issues mainly do to where I live lots of condos and buildings around.

I on the days the antenna works and I have a couple of different ones and different preamps
3.1-4 misc pbs channels
8 - nbc
8.2 8Prime aka RTN
13 Fox
16.1-4 misc pbs channel near identical to the other pbs station
20 NBC Naples FL
26 ABC Naples FL
28 ABC
32 - Ind
38 - Mytv
44 CW
46 Cw Naples FL
66 Ion aka Pax 4 channels of nonsense

So I get about 20 channels via ota when its working.

 

[1captain]

I have not had much luck with OTA. I will get the antenna aim and get a strong singal on say wfla and pick up its digital stations and it will work for a while and then stop working and I have to fiddle with the antenna again. I also have alot of multipath issues mainly do to where I live lots of condos and buildings around.

I on the days the antenna works and I have a couple of different ones and different preamps
3.1-4 misc pbs channels
8 - nbc
8.2 8Prime aka RTN
13 Fox
16.1-4 misc pbs channel near identical to the other pbs station
20 NBC Naples FL
26 ABC Naples FL
28 ABC
32 - Ind
38 - Mytv
44 CW
46 Cw Naples FL
66 Ion aka Pax 4 channels of nonsense

So I get about 20 channels via ota when its working.

Hi Stone, when you have Multi-Path problems it can be very hard to get around them, but most of the time you can, an will try to give you some pointers. I am also down here in Fl. an just to let you know antennas don't last that long here about 7-years max due to our area with the Gulf an Atlantic on both sides of our state.

now 1 place I would stay away from for parts is radio shack, they have antenna craft that builds their antennas for them, an it may be a rca box or a radio shack box, an they are copy cats, which means they will take a co.'s antenna, like CM, change a few thins about an then produce it for them under what ever name they want on it. by them doing some change's, it may change the antenna's impeadence or band tunning.


1st thing if you're antenna has any age on it, change it out, an antenna models an brands are not all equal, in gain (front to back) or side rejection, my 2 favorites are Winegaurd & Channel Master. an Winegaurd make's 2 models of "Ghost Buster" that you may want to think about for a multi-path (this is what it is made for) problem, that antenna is the last resort when you have tryed every thing else.

Now thing to try.
1st mount a good grade of Antenna (if you are useing a pre-amp, DON'T for this testing) on a adjustable pole (push up) but do not atach it to home just yet, an start moving the antenna up at 3-ft at a time an peak it, till you are maxed out on hight, if that doesn't do it move 3-ft away from you're location, an repeat all over again. this realy needs to be done with 2-people, 1 to hold pole an other to raise it an keep checking signal.

an a lot of time with a multi-path signal the height placement will cure its problem, with this kind of problem higher is not always better.

now if you have moved around you're home an still can not get a clean unmulti-path signal, start to try a different model of antenna, an repeat all over agin.

now I don't know what you use to peak a antenna in with, an most people don't have a good meter for this kind of problem, but a multi-path problem it is almost a must to have. here if I run into a problem like what you have I will use Sadelco display-max, that meter has a LCD screen that you can look at the wave patern of that Freq, an tell right away if you are helping or increasing the Multi-Path problem. now if all fails you may want to get hold of a Co. in Sarasota, an ask them for help.

now as far as pre-amps they can also add to a multi-path probelm, as well as to help also. but 1st thing is to find signal as clean as posible with out 1. now 1 of the cleanest pre-amps that I have seen for signal for a home owner is a Channel Master-7777, with out going into a desnower line, an they get pricey in the 350 range, an also carry more gain.

well Stone hope all helps, this is a very time taking process, to cure a Multi-Path problem, unless some one ever ran into it, they would pull their out getting it right, but 95 percent of the time it can be done, with the right parts. Good Luck..

 

[stonecold]

I tried a couple of different things.

But at this point I just going to find a expert in OTA while I deal with my FTA mess. I have my birddog and everything for my FTA setup. ( I use to do all my own dish installs. )
But with OTA I leave it up to someone who has ota meter and go from there. As much as I love my Samsung TVs there signal meter is well crap.

 

[jayelem]

But I'm still confused, what range on the belt would the most FTA come in on. I mean I have very clear large chunks of southern sky but about half the belt is on one side of my house and the the other half , so figuring out which side of the house to put the dish on is going to be important.

StoneCold , you're very fortunate to live down south because your elevation angle is higher , you benefit by being able to clear most obstructions.

If you do your homework you might be able to pick a perfect spot on your property that can see the whole Clarke belt.


I have included some illustrated pictures using a local Circus tent (Sarasota) to give you a better idea of what it might take to clear an object , of course it's a perfect scenario since I don't know what obstacles you have to clear. Buildings , palm trees , etc..

Your True south is AMC 9 @ 83.0 west. Dish Elevation 58.1

Lets say you want to be able to get White Springs on Galaxy 27 @129.0 west your dish elevation would be 30.2

at the other extreme you may want to see some channels from Cuba on Hispasat @ 30.0 west , with a dish elevation of 24.8

Using a compass you can get a pretty good idea of what you'll be able to clear.

 

[jayelem]

( I use to do all my own dish installs. )

Fantastic ..... That will be of some help.

 

[Lak7]

At least for me, having the equipment and "doing" FTA makes many things clearer.
Start simple and cheap, like any hobby, after you're addicted, then spend all your money on it.

 

[guapoharry]

I tried a couple of different things.

But at this point I just going to find a expert in OTA while I deal with my FTA mess. I have my birddog and everything for my FTA setup. ( I use to do all my own dish installs. )

Heh, pointing at DN and DV is easy. C-band is easy.

For some of those Ku birds, your BirDog will be especially helpful.

 

[stonecold]

StoneCold , you're very fortunate to live down south because your elevation angle is higher , you benefit by being able to clear most obstructions.

If you do your homework you might be able to pick a perfect spot on your property that can see the whole Clarke belt.


I have included some illustrated pictures using a local Circus tent (Sarasota) to give you a better idea of what it might take to clear an object , of course it's a perfect scenario since I don't know what obstacles you have to clear. Buildings , palm trees , etc..

Your True south is AMC 9 @ 83.0 west. Dish Elevation 58.1

Lets say you want to be able to get White Springs on Galaxy 27 @129.0 west your dish elevation would be 30.2

at the other extreme you may want to see some channels from Cuba on Hispasat @ 30.0 west , with a dish elevation of 24.8

Using a compass you can get a pretty good idea of what you'll be able to clear.

That actually helps alot because I know where they set that tent up which is not far from my place and it sits in the same direction.

With the help you guys I found a spot but now concerned about long cable runs. I found a place where I do have a full view of the belt. But I will end up running 300/310 feet of RQ6 Little concerned about signal quality at those lengths. I know when I put up all my dishnet dishese signal qual use to take a dive after 150 legacy lnb and 250 Dish Pro LNB . Is 310 just too much of a run?

 

[Mr Tony]

310 is kinda pushing it...I've seen 200 for sure with no issues but 310...oh boy

might need some good RG-6 or even RG11 if you have access to it

If you have a shorter run but lose some of the arc (say eastern arc) having 83 as your true south isnt bad...there are only 3 "main" KU sats east of there and that is 79.74 & 72..most of them are to the west of true south

 

[walrus1957]

I been interested in FTA for a while. I been doing alot of reading but really could use some help.

1. since this really is going to be a hobby I figured I want a motorized dish, as even though the dish farm pictures are kinda geeky and cool I dont want one my self. But I still confused what range on the belt would the most FTA come in on. I mean I have very clear large chunks of southern sky but about half the belt is on on side of my house and the the other half , so figuring out which side of the house to put the dish one is going to be important.


2. Size I guess I am still confused how big of a dish I need.

3. Receivers , Recievers, Receivers!!!! So many not enough on line to separate the really good ones from the crap.

4. Can I do anything about these illegal guys, in my effort to get help I found via some googling some local places selling FTA receivers. So I go to there place they have like 1 or 2 models of boxes and nothing but dish network dishes and lnbs. I am not stupid I read enough to understand that dish network lnbs are pointless for legit FTA use. And while they were not directly suggesting any thing it was obvious they were up to no good. These are the people that give fta a bad name. is there anyone I can contact, since I only have my sucpisions but nothing to have the cops swarming in.

stonecold,

I see you like many others have a problem with not having a clear view of the entire arc. And would like to know what section of the arc has the most FTA to offer. Checking out the Lyngsat.com site can help you determine this. And again do you want to go with C-band, KU-band, or both. You commented about feeds, KU band also carries a lot of live news feeds. Most of the KU band wild feeds you will find on satellites 72W through 93W, but can be found on other satellites as well. If you have a receiver that works with Channel Master, then I have a file that you can use that has all the KU feed transponders, and about 400 or more captured news feed channels that you can upload to a receiver using Channel Master for file conversion. I also have some C-band feeds but not many. The channels on the file will only show programing when a feed is being transmitted on that transponder with the correct audio and vidio PIDs. When searching for feeds I usually do a quick step through of the feed channels on each selected satellite untill I get signal. At any one time during the day I can usually find about 30 active feed channels, more when there is big news event going on.

If you are wondering where to put a motorized dish or even a fixed point dish in your yard then check out this website:
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/SUNcalc/SUNcalc.htm

This is a calculator for satellite solar outages. You will need to enter your dish loaction, the appropriate time zone setting, the year and Fall or Spring, select a satellite, either from the list provided or just type in like "123 for Galaxy 18". Then you click on calculate. Below a table will fill in with the dates and time of day that the sun is posistioned directly behind the satellite. Using the suns location you can determine if you have any obstructions in the way. Do this for several satellites on the arc and you will actually be able to visualize the clark belt for yourself. This calculator can only be used for a few weeks, twice a year, spring and fall. Starting around late February 2009 until about March 9th you should be able to use this calculator to select a dish site in your yard.

I have a motorized 76cm dish and a Coolsat 5000 receiver for my KU FTA setup. I also have a motorized 1 meter winegard dish, using a BSC621-2 LNB and offset scaler, in conjuntion with another Coolsat 5000 receiver for my C-band FTA setup. The 1 meter dish is a little small for C-band, but I am getting over 300 channels on it. The C-band satellites I pickup on the 1 meter offset dish are at west positions: 55, 58, 72, 89, 91, 95, 99, 121, 123, 127 and 139. My dish location is near Omaha NE, you can look at the satellite footprints on Lyngsat for each of these satellites, compare my dish size to the EIRP chart and you can see how I can get C-band using my dish on those satellites only. Basically anything less then 41+ on the EIRP chart just doesn't come in for me.

The offset scalar I use for C-band is one I purchased from Brotherhood, but also have a home made version that works as well (cost you roughly $5 to fabricate). I want to say thanks to brotherhood for this scalar.

Don't want to write a book here, but do want to let you know about all the possibilities for your dish setup.

Hope you find any of this a help.

Walrus1957

One more note to add, using the QPH-031 for my KU lnb. I also have a DSR920 receiver, wishing now I had purchased the BSC621-1 LNB instead of the -2 model, as the -2 will not work for C-band on my 920 receiver.

 

[stonecold]

310 is kinda pushing it...I've seen 200 for sure with no issues but 310...oh boy

might need some good RG-6 or even RG11 if you have access to it

If you have a shorter run but lose some of the arc (say eastern arc) having 83 as your true south isnt bad...there are only 3 "main" KU sats east of there and that is 79.74 & 72..most of them are to the west of true south

Well I found a spot that cuts the estimated cable lenght down to about 270 feet. I do have about 500 feet of Copper braided and solid copper core RG11. I have to raid the server room to find where I put that bag of digicon rg11 connectors but hopefully it might do the trick my other option is to rent a cherry picker and go nuts with my chainsaw lol.