I Have a Replacement STB Coming Monday

[DarrellP]

You guys know how much I bitch about mosquito noise & Voom PQ and I've been conversing with some guys at AVSForum who view Voom on a projector, some with bigger screens than mine and they do not see the issues I do. I even went so far as to connect the Voom cable to my Dish 6000 and tuned in the HDDemo channel and gee, to my surprise, no noise, so it is not anything related to the cabling, dish, lnb, switchbox or component cables as all of that stuff has been tested with my 6000 and they work fine.

So we came to the conclusion that I must have a bad stb (2 actually since I already tried the other one and get the same results). I called Voom, talked to a clueless CSR, told him not to send a tech to diagnose as I know more about this stuff than any installer they could send, so they better have him bring another box with him.

If he shows up without a box, he's taking both of mine back with him and if the replacement box is noisey, he's taking 3 stbs back with him, that will be it with me and Voom, I can't watch HD that is soft or skeeter filled or lifeless. I watched 2 DVD's tonight and the PQ was as good or better than anything the Cinema10 has dished up.

I ask that you guys pull for me that I have a bad stb as I so want Voom to look good with the new stb. I'll let you know on Monday how it went.

 

[vurbano]

You guys know how much I bitch about mosquito noise & Voom PQ and I've been conversing with some guys at AVSForum who view Voom on a projector, some with bigger screens than mine and they do not see the issues I do. I even went so far as to connect the Voom cable to my Dish 6000 and tuned in the HDDemo channel and gee, to my surprise, no noise, so it is not anything related to the cabling, dish, lnb, switchbox or component cables as all of that stuff has been tested with my 6000 and they work fine.

So we came to the conclusion that I must have a bad stb (2 actually since I already tried the other one and get the same results). I called Voom, talked to a clueless CSR, told him not to send a tech to diagnose as I know more about this stuff than any installer they could send, so they better have him bring another box with him.

If he shows up without a box, he's taking both of mine back with him and if the replacement box is noisey, he's taking 3 stbs back with him, that will be it with me and Voom, I can't watch HD that is soft or skeeter filled or lifeless. I watched 2 DVD's tonight and the PQ was as good or better than anything the Cinema10 has dished up.

I ask that you guys pull for me that I have a bad stb as I so want Voom to look good with the new stb. I'll let you know on Monday how it went.

Could noise = bad cable? or bad lnb?

 

[Indy]

You guys know how much I bitch about mosquito noise & Voom PQ and I've been conversing with some guys at AVSForum who view Voom on a projector, some with bigger screens than mine and they do not see the issues I do. I even went so far as to connect the Voom cable to my Dish 6000 and tuned in the HDDemo channel and gee, to my surprise, no noise, so it is not anything related to the cabling, dish, lnb, switchbox or component cables as all of that stuff has been tested with my 6000 and they work fine.

So we came to the conclusion that I must have a bad stb (2 actually since I already tried the other one and get the same results). I called Voom, talked to a clueless CSR, told him not to send a tech to diagnose as I know more about this stuff than any installer they could send, so they better have him bring another box with him.

If he shows up without a box, he's taking both of mine back with him and if the replacement box is noisey, he's taking 3 stbs back with him, that will be it with me and Voom, I can't watch HD that is soft or skeeter filled or lifeless. I watched 2 DVD's tonight and the PQ was as good or better than anything the Cinema10 has dished up.

I ask that you guys pull for me that I have a bad stb as I so want Voom to look good with the new stb. I'll let you know on Monday how it went.

I have yet to see the mosquito noise. I have a Sony G70 with a 8' DayLite Permwall. The projector was set up by Terry Ferrentinois (Chuckuff on AVS) and do not see ithe noise. My previous G70 was set up by Ken Whitcomb and I never noticed any anomalies but I did not have Voom at the time.
What exactly is the noise and where would I look for it?

 

[DarrellP]

Could noise = bad cable? or bad lnb?

vurbano, I have hooked up my Dish 6000 to the same dish, lnb, cable, etc that Voom is using and get ZERO noise. The only thing left is the box.

What exactly is the noise and where would I look for it?

Indy, are you sure you want to know? Once you see it, you will not like it and it will drive you up a wall. But if you want to, try this:

Tune in EquatorHd on any of the "Over" series, like Over England and look at the tops of the roofs as they fly over towns, the skeeters will look like maggots squirming around on top of the roofs.

Another good place is any of the Smart Travels series when they are showing any kind of old building, just look at the detail and it will squirm. The noise is most apparent when there is movement, if the image is static, the noise goes away, now does that sound like an encoding or a compression issue?

Want another channel? Try GalleryHD when they are showing "Five Millenia of Chinese Treasures", I could not watch this show it was so noisey.

The skeeter noise comes and goes from channel to channel & from show to show, I think they they are either screwing around with their compression scheme, maybe trying to balance it between channels or moving it around all the time, I don't know, but it definitely looks compression induced to me.

2 days ago I tuned in a movie on 107 and it was so overcompressed it was just awful. Looking at the leaves in the jungle, they all just kind of morphed and mushed around like a Dish SD channel does and this is an overcompression issue.

I really don't think I have a bad stb, I just think I am too sensitive to PQ anomalies and other's aren't. I see Rainbows with a DLP machine, others don't. I am extremely sensitive to odors, others aren't. Audio noise drives me up a tree, others don't hear it.

Maybe I am too much of a purist and expect too much, but there is a problem here with Voom and Dish doesn't have any noise at all, so what does that leave me to believe? I hooked up my Dish 6000 to the same exact cable that feeds my Voom from the dish and there is ZERO noise (Dish has a HD Demo channel on 61.5 so there was no readjusting of the dish necessary). I swapped component cables from my Dish 6000 to Voom and my Dish had ZERO noise but Voom still does. What would that lead you guys to deduce? Voom is messed up.

I've read elsewhere that someone else had the noise and swapping the stb fixed it. I sure hope it does or else I am dropping Voom. I have showed the noise to another forum member here and he saw it, so I am not imagining this.

 

[Ilya]

I just think I am too sensitive to PQ anomalies and other's aren't. I see Rainbows with a DLP machine, others don't. I am extremely sensitive to odors, others aren't. Audio noise drives me up a tree, others don't hear it.

That's probably it! Plus, the size of the screen! (Could you tell us what your typical viewing angle is? I suspect you are sitting too close to the screen, in relative terms.) Plus, over the past few months you've trained your eye to see those mosquitoes so well, that now you will probably recognize them even on a smaller screen, where most people would not even notice anything!

Remember that micro-stutter problem we had several months ago? The fact is, everyone had that problem, but only few have noticed! As with any other imperfection (be it rainbows, screen-door effect, dead pixels, etc.), some people are more sensitive to it than others, and once you train your eye to notice it, it may start driving you nuts!

Sorry to hear you are going to leave. Who will tell us whether the DVR, new encoders deployed by VOOM or the MPEG4 encoding have fixed the problem or not?!

 

[rmunson2]

I see the same movements that Darrell reports and I am viewing on a Sony 57" RPTV. I have been with VOOM since 17 December 04 and on my third receiver. It is not something that would cause me to leave VOOM. The freeze ups are my problem and a second service call is scheduled for the coming Monday.

 

[ram1220]

I'm seeing the same thing Darrell is reporting too. I'm viewing on a JVC 48" rear projection. I tried to get Voom to change out the box a few months ago but they refused. It is enough of a problem to get me to try and leave Voom again. I don't care if Dish has fewer HD channels. I value PQ over quantity. As for Voom's DVR and MPEG4, I honestly don't think they are coming. Voom has been dragging their feet for so long now that I just don't believe it will happen. I feel Voom is stringing along their customers with info hoping they won't leave. In the meantime they are dragging their feet hoping E or D buys them out before they have to present the DVR or MPEG4. Obviously this is just my opinion. But I've been with Voom since March 10, 2004 and I haven't seen 1 thing improve since then. All I hear are promises that are always broken. PQ is still in the toilet, no self installs, clueless CSR's, a billing dept. that has no idea what they are doing, and management that lately gives me the inpression that they just don't care anymore. The only reason I am still with Voom is the hope that all this gets turned around. Damn what a great company and HD service that would be. But I just don't see it happening.
I will be waiting for Darrell's reply about the new box. If it doesn't help him then I will try and cancel again and go with E. I had a friend come by last night so I could show off Voom to him. Until he saw it he was thinking about getting it. But not after last night. PQ was in the toilet. This included mosquito noise on most chanels as well as 1-2 second blackouts. My signal was 95. My friend can not believe I am paying almost $100/month for this. I was embarrassed to say the least. But I will say that I haven't seen any blackouts tonight. But I was mostly watching football on OTA ABC. But I did switch to Voom channels during commercials and I didn't see any blackouts. But the mosquitos were still flying high.

 

[DarrellP]

That's probably it! Plus, the size of the screen! (Could you tell us what your typical viewing angle is? I suspect you are sitting too close to the screen, in relative terms.) Plus, over the past few months you've trained your eye to see those mosquitoes so well, that now you will probably recognize them even on a smaller screen, where most people would not even notice anything!

Remember that micro-stutter problem we had several months ago? The fact is, everyone had that problem, but only few have noticed! As with any other imperfection (be it rainbows, screen-door effect, dead pixels, etc.), some people are more sensitive to it than others, and once you train your eye to notice it, it may start driving you nuts!

Sorry to hear you are going to leave. Who will tell us whether the DVR, new encoders deployed by VOOM or the MPEG4 encoding have fixed the problem or not?!

Ilya, my viewing distance is exactly the THX recommended distance for my screen size, which is approx 1.78 screen widths back, so with an 8' wide screen, I am back about 13.5'. At that distance, the Screen Door Effect with my LCD projector is non-existent, so I am not sitting too close. For some people this would be too "in your face", but I love it and am now accustomed to it. As I stated, I have ZERO noise from Dish & DVD, just Voom. Since I don't watch SD programming on my HT screen, the distance is just right. If I wanted to watch SD, I'd have to move to the other side of the kitchen (and have X-ray eyes to see through walls).

I remember the micro stutters, I was the one who diagnosed the issue using my DVR and frame by frame to analyze it. As far as leaving, it's ONLY if there is still noise with the new box. I only watch 2 or 3 channels on Voom anyway and the only channel I would absolutely miss is MonstersHD. I can live without the others, they are really no big deal to me as the programming is so-so anyway.

 

[jnardone]

Hi:
I see the same noise as DarrrelP on Equator on a 50" plasma. Last week, when there seemed to be more noise on all channels there was heavy rain in Long Island. I think that is where VOOM's uplink facility is located so maybe the problem was with the uplink to the satellite? Where do the other satellite companies uplink from?

 

[vinnyv07]

EquatorHD is the ch that I see the most noise on. The other ch's look great to me. But the question that I have is , if VOOM knows this problem exsists...why cant they fix it? Its really been ever since EQHD came on. I would never leave VOOM because of the noise on this one ch, but it is kind of annoying that they havent fixed this problem yet.

 

[Ilya]

Ilya, my viewing distance is exactly the THX recommended distance for my screen size, which is approx 1.78 screen widths back...

That's what I thought. For me, that explains why it bothers you much more than it does me. My typical viewing angle is 1.5-2 times smaller than yours. I do see mosquito noise, but it just doesn't bother me that much. If I move much closer to the screen, then yes, it becomes much more annoying. But then screen door becomes an issue too. I am surprised you are not seeing that.

I doubt the box replacement will fix it though. I think the problem is on the encoding end. Hope, you will prove me wrong. Good luck!

 

[SeattleVoomer1]

Yes, I agreed with Darrell before about the mosquito noise. We view on a 96" screen using a DLP projector. Have never seen the dreaded rainbow effect but have never had anyone "teach" me to see it either. Being an audiophile I know only to well about hearing things others don't "hear" until I point it out to them.

We do see the noise particularly on Equator and Auction where slow movement seems to exaggerate it. I think I read somewhere that the compression algorithms remove bits from areas with little action so maybe areas of slow action show up more. Obviously, I know little or nothing about how compression is done.

When all is said and done we do enjoy watching HDTV on VOOM. However, most of the time our OTAs have better quality whether HD or SD. We have not noticed any picture dropouts on any of the VOOM sat channels we watch. The biggest problem in PQ/sound department remains with HDNews which still has the wandering soundstage with the announcer's voice going back and forth between the 3 front channels.

Good luck with your new STB, Darrell. Will be interesting to see if it helps in your case but I doubt it. I think you fall into that dreaded "videophile" catagory as I do the "audiophile".

Watching HDTV under lightly snowing Seattle skies, Gill

 

[DarrellP]

Thanks guys, I know it's on the Voom satellite end as my Voom OTA is excellent & noise free. I'm also considering reducing my screen size down to around 90-96".

Ilya, I do see SDE to a very small degree with bright white scenes, but it is barely noticeable.

 

[Indy]

OK, I see what you are talking about. Yes it is there but not bad enough for me to pull the plug. After years of growing up with my father I have learned to accept the limits of television. He was a design engineer for years with CBS and his own company Transcom.

Have you ever noticed how a herringbone pattern on a suit or piece of material gives a shimmering effect on regular TV? This is one of those short comings you learn to live with.
I think the mosquito noise is a result of the refresh rate of the display. The details will start on one line of the scan but because of the movement of the camera the detail is dissected and breaks to the new scan line of giving the squirming affect.

I believe if you want the data stream run full open this will be the result unless the data is processed and compressed to freeze some of the static information lines from one frame to the next. Thus a softer picture like Dish. I will take the sharper overall picture with the mosquitoes any day of the week over the softer sanitized version like on Dish.

 

[BlackHitachi]

Yes, I agreed with Darrell before about the mosquito noise. We view on a 96" screen using a DLP projector. Have never seen the dreaded rainbow effect but have never had anyone "teach" me to see it either. Being an audiophile I know only to well about hearing things others don't "hear" until I point it out to them.

We do see the noise particularly on Equator and Auction where slow movement seems to exaggerate it. I think I read somewhere that the compression algorithms remove bits from areas with little action so maybe areas of slow action show up more. Obviously, I know little or nothing about how compression is done.

When all is said and done we do enjoy watching HDTV on VOOM. However, most of the time our OTAs have better quality whether HD or SD. We have not noticed any picture dropouts on any of the VOOM sat channels we watch. The biggest problem in PQ/sound department remains with HDNews which still has the wandering soundstage with the announcer's voice going back and forth between the 3 front channels.

Good luck with your new STB, Darrell. Will be interesting to see if it helps in your case but I doubt it. I think you fall into that dreaded "videophile" catagory as I do the "audiophile".

Watching HDTV under lightly snowing Seattle skies, Gill

SeattleVoomer1 does the sound quality on Voom sound ok to you. Just asking because my wife and i notice a difference Voom is much louder and we hear more on Voom compared to dish on both HT and Just TV sound..

 

[DarrellP]

I think the mosquito noise is a result of the refresh rate of the display. The details will start on one line of the scan but because of the movement of the camera the detail is dissected and breaks to the new scan line of giving the squirming affect.

This doesn't hold water with a progressive scan display. It happens in 720p as well as 1080i.

Anyway, I'll let you guys know what happens tomorrow.

 

[SeattleVoomer1]

BlackHitachi, you must not live too close to the east side of the valley! Beautiful area down there.

As far as sound VOOM sound levels on their own channels seem to be consistent. Don't know what to compare them with since we don't have any other cable/sat service. Other channels-OTAs and sat-vary greatly in sound levels. By the way, we were just commenting last night that the surround sound on VOOM channels offered with their own programming is far superior to any other surround sound we have including DVD movies.

Still watching HDTV under mostly cloudy (snow possible?) Seattle skies, Gill

 

[vurbano]

I doubt the box replacement will fix it though. I think the problem is on the encoding end. Hope, you will prove me wrong. Good luck!

Thats what I think too. All of the material on EquatorHD usually has it. Im hoping mpeg4 may help.

 

[BlackHitachi]

BlackHitachi, you must not live too close to the east side of the valley! Beautiful area down there.

As far as sound VOOM sound levels on their own channels seem to be consistent. Don't know what to compare them with since we don't have any other cable/sat service. Other channels-OTAs and sat-vary greatly in sound levels. By the way, we were just commenting last night that the surround sound on VOOM channels offered with their own programming is far superior to any other surround sound we have including DVD movies.

Still watching HDTV under mostly cloudy (snow possible?) Seattle skies, Gill

Thank you for the reply. Yea we think the sound is better. Also it is pretty down here snow is melting. Yea i live in East medford and barley can get the Voom bird. I am really lucky!!

 

[DarrellP]

Sorry for keeping you guys in suspense for so long, my installer was hung up and showed up at 6:30 this evening, ranting and raving how this was going to be his last Voom install ever, he was totally fed up with their operation.

Anyway, we replaced the box, downloaded the latest software and ...... drumroll please.... no change. But! (and this is a big butt!) today as I was browsing the Voom HD channels, they all seemed to be better for the most part and after replacing my box, I watched EquatorHD with a show about Vietnam and it was skeeterless! BUT! I tuned in Soundstage, Moov, Gallery, Auction and HDNEWS and they had skeeters.

What's up? Is Voom messing with our heads? Are they mooving (pun intended) the compression around between channels?

Anyway, I think it is at a level that I can tolerate it, no amount of noise is acceptable as far as I'm concerned, so my criticism will continue until they banish all noise from the HD channels, so Ilya, you are stuck with me giving my opinion of Voom PQ for the foreseeable future.