I can not see Ka signal

[eeyore]

I am trying to install Slimline SWM LNB. I use AU9-S-SWM Five LNB and HR21 receiver.

I can see 101, 110 and 119 sat good signal. So I believe the alignment is okay.

But I can not see 103 sat Ka signal by HR21.

Does someone know the reason?

Thank you for your help!

 

[JMikeH]

Are you sure you selected the slim5 in setup? If not repeat setup.

Are you using BBC's?

 

[eeyore]

Yes, I selected slim5.

But I do not use BBC. Do I need to use BBC even the LNB is SWM type?

 

[JMikeH]

My bad, I didn't see the SWM reference. If it's a SWM LNB, you select SWM5 in setup, not Slim5. Another possibility would be to check the power inserter.

Edit: Actually, if it's SWM, it should find the correct LNB automatically after reset.

 

[jdspencer]

The skew could also be off. It doesn't take much to lose the Ka and keep the Ku sats. What are your strengths for the 101, 110, and 119?

 

[eeyore]

Signal strength shows 52~67 for 101, 53~67 for 110 and 51~67 for 119. I hope the alignment is okay.

I will check power inserter.

Thank you for your suggestions!

 

[JMikeH]

Those signal strengths are too low. They need to be at least in the 80's, but preferably 90's. Beginning to look like an alignment issue.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Check mast for plumb.

Carefully set skew & elevation per your zip code with the correct dish selected.

Select the 101 sat and peak the 101.

Because all your sats are low it looks like your elevation is off.
The 99 & 103 are on either side of the 101. You will lower the 101 slightly to pick up the 99 & 103.

Joe

 

[raoul5788]

Check mast for plumb.

Carefully set skew & elevation per your zip code with the correct dish selected.

Select the 101 sat and peak the 101.

Because all your sats are low it looks like your elevation is off.
The 99 & 103 are on either side of the 101. You will lower the 101 slightly to pick up the 99 & 103.

Joe

What do you mean by lower the 101 slightly to pick up 99 and 103?

 

[Joe Diamond]

What do you mean by lower the 101 slightly to pick up 99 and 103?

The tuning is a compromise. The dish will "see" the signal from all 5 sats. As you move the dish to tune you are actually changing the focus for all 5 signals. The LNBs are all on one rigid component. So you "peak" the 101 & 119, getting the highest signal possible. Then you look at the 99 &103 and make slight adjustments to bring these two KA signals up. In doing this you must also change the focus of the 101 a little. You should see 80s & 90s everywhere.

Joe

 

[raoul5788]

The tuning is a compromise. The dish will "see" the signal from all 5 sats. As you move the dish to tune you are actually changing the focus for all 5 signals. The LNBs are all on one rigid component. So you "peak" the 101 & 119, getting the highest signal possible. Then you look at the 99 &103 and make slight adjustments to bring these two KA signals up. In doing this you must also change the focus of the 101 a little. You should see 80s & 90s everywhere.

Joe

So are you saying lower the elevation or lower the ss on 101?

 

[Joe Diamond]

So are you saying lower the elevation or lower the ss on 101?

First you loosen the az bolts on the side of the dish or loosen the az bolts on the dither equipment (not both). You are not going to make a big move...but you set your meter(in the receiver) for the 101 and get the highest number you can with just moving left and right. Then tighten that position.

Then do the same with the elevation....raise the el until there is no signal and then go back down until you can stop at the highest number. You are going back and forth through the exact center of the signal. Lock down the best you can get.

Do ine direction at a time........check that the tilt is set correctly but you will not have to tune that.

THEN go to the 103 meter and do the same...these moves will be very small...the dither equipment is ok for this...just understand what lock bolts you are using or you will damage the system.

After you have "peaked" the 103 you will notice that the numbers on the 101 are a little lower than they were. They will be high 80s and low 90s but lower than they were.

Know that you start to loose picture in the 40s......HD goes first...The installation minimum is 70.......and most techs have no trouble getting signals in the high 80s and low 90s. If the signal levels change in clear weather something is loose, moving around and away from the tuned settings.

Work slow and get the feel for it. Make sure the mast is "plumb". Tighten all final settings without breaking any bolts. Make pencil marks on the mast & el before you start so you will know where you are working.

Joe

 

[raoul5788]

First you loosen the az bolts on the side of the dish or loosen the az bolts on the dither equipment (not both). You are not going to make a big move...but you set your meter(in the receiver) for the 101 and get the highest number you can with just moving left and right. Then tighten that position.

Then do the same with the elevation....raise the el until there is no signal and then go back down until you can stop at the highest number. You are going back and forth through the exact center of the signal. Lock down the best you can get.

Do ine direction at a time........check that the tilt is set correctly but you will not have to tune that.

THEN go to the 103 meter and do the same...these moves will be very small...the dither equipment is ok for this...just understand what lock bolts you are using or you will damage the system.

After you have "peaked" the 103 you will notice that the numbers on the 101 are a little lower than they were. They will be high 80s and low 90s but lower than they were.

Know that you start to loose picture in the 40s......HD goes first...The installation minimum is 70.......and most techs have no trouble getting signals in the high 80s and low 90s. If the signal levels change in clear weather something is loose, moving around and away from the tuned settings.

Work slow and get the feel for it. Make sure the mast is "plumb". Tighten all final settings without breaking any bolts. Make pencil marks on the mast & el before you start so you will know where you are working.

Joe

I didn't ask you how to peak the dish. I asked if you are saying to lower the elevation or the ss numbers. Simple question.

 

[Joe Diamond]

I didn't ask you how to peak the dish. I asked if you are saying to lower the elevation or the ss numbers. Simple question.

The elevation goes where it must. The ss (sat signal) numbers show what is coming in from each transponder. Tuning changes the ss numbers. Remember you are dealing with 3 parameters and each has to be close. If you lower the elevation you must observe what happens...lower it..then raise it until you have "peaked" the elevation. Then do the same thing with the az.

As you "peak" the 103 & 99 the 101 will change. You produce the correct result for the 99 & 103 and the 101 will be ok. It is just easier to hit the 101 and 119 because their footprint is bigger & the signal more powerful. Once there, it is easier to work with the 99 & 103. They are like books on a shelf;
99 (- 3 degrees -) 101 (3 more degrees -) 103 (- 9 degrees west of 101 -) 110 (- 9 more degrees west of 110 -) 119

99 101 103 110 119 all west longitude, 23,000 miles out.

So just lowering the elevation is not all there is to do. Watch how the numbers change.

Joe

 

[raoul5788]

The elevation goes where it must. The ss (sat signal) numbers show what is coming in from each transponder. Tuning changes the ss numbers. Remember you are dealing with 3 parameters and each has to be close. If you lower the elevation you must observe what happens...lower it..then raise it until you have "peaked" the elevation. Then do the same thing with the az.

As you "peak" the 103 & 99 the 101 will change. You produce the correct result for the 99 & 103 and the 101 will be ok. It is just easier to hit the 101 and 119 because their footprint is bigger & the signal more powerful. Once there, it is easier to work with the 99 & 103. They are like books on a shelf;
99 (- 3 degrees -) 101 (3 more degrees -) 103 (- 9 degrees west of 101 -) 110 (- 9 more degrees west of 110 -) 119

99 101 103 110 119 all west longitude, 23,000 miles out.

So just lowering the elevation is not all there is to do. Watch how the numbers change.

Joe

I know what you are talking about. Apparently you do not, since you will not answer my question.

 

[jdspencer]

Okay, I'll answer. Lower the signal strength a little on the 101. This may require increasing or decreasing the elevation. But, most importantly, the mast must be plumb and the skew set properly.

 

[TyroneShoes]

You may be getting questionable advice.

"Plumb", is a myth. Plumb is only an arbitrary direction determined by gravity, and gravity has no bearing on where a free-standing dish points towards the sky. The dish has no earthly idea whether the mast is plumb or not, nor does it care. It points where it points.

The concept of a plumb mast is only a convenience to installation or alignment, and not an absolute necessity. You can point the dish exactly where it is required regardless of how plumb the mast is, its just that it is more difficult if it is not plumb, meaning that certain adjustments will affect other adjustments and you need to know how to compensate for that, which is a bit more intensive and requires that you understand what the fact that the mast is not plumb is doing to the adjustment routine.

It's a little like eating soup with a fork, but it can be done, even on a multisat dish. I've been called to a number of sites that had a non-plumb mast already cast in concrete, and got the same numbers there as on a plumb mast; its just a bit more difficult because one adjustment works against the other. But of course if you have the option, plumb up the mast as a first step simply to make your life easier.

As for "lowering" one reading to raise another, complete hogwash. There is no "compromise" in alignment. There is a compromise in a multisat dish regarding the fact that only one dimension can be parabolic (and the other must be spherical) which means you need comparatively more reflector for an equal amount of signal at the focal point (compared to a fully parabolic one-focal point dish) but that compromise is accounted for by using a larger reflector in the design.

The dish is designed optimally to receive the 5 sats. Since they know where they are before they design it, it can be made precisely to see that part of the arc necessary without compromising one signal for the other. If you align and properly dither any two Ku sats, the Ka sats fall automagically in line, which is the suggested method since most installers don't have any way to see Ka sats anyway. If an installer has to compensate by lowering one reading to achieve an optimal reading on a different sat, then the dish is just simply not properly aligned (skew is probably not dead on), period.

 

[raoul5788]

You may be getting questionable advice.

"Plumb", is a myth. Plumb is only an arbitrary direction determined by gravity, and gravity has no bearing on where a free-standing dish points towards the sky. The dish has no earthly idea whether the mast is plumb or not, nor does it care. It points where it points.

The concept of a plumb mast is only a convenience to installation or alignment, and not an absolute necessity. You can point the dish exactly where it is required regardless of how plumb the mast is, its just that it is more difficult if it is not plumb, meaning that certain adjustments will affect other adjustments and you need to know how to compensate for that, which is a bit more intensive and requires that you understand what the fact that the mast is not plumb is doing to the adjustment routine.

It's a little like eating soup with a fork, but it can be done, even on a multisat dish. I've been called to a number of sites that had a non-plumb mast already cast in concrete, and got the same numbers there as on a plumb mast; its just a bit more difficult because one adjustment works against the other. But of course if you have the option, plumb up the mast as a first step simply to make your life easier.

As for "lowering" one reading to raise another, complete hogwash. There is no "compromise" in alignment. There is a compromise in a multisat dish regarding the fact that only one dimension can be parabolic (and the other must be spherical) which means you need comparatively more reflector for an equal amount of signal at the focal point (compared to a fully parabolic one-focal point dish) but that compromise is accounted for by using a larger reflector in the design.

The dish is designed optimally to receive the 5 sats. Since they know where they are before they design it, it can be made precisely to see that part of the arc necessary without compromising one signal for the other. If you align and properly dither any two Ku sats, the Ka sats fall automagically in line, which is the suggested method since most installers don't have any way to see Ka sats anyway. If an installer has to compensate by lowering one reading to achieve an optimal reading on a different sat, then the dish is just simply not properly aligned (skew is probably not dead on), period.

You are partly correct. The ku signals are easier to tune in than the ka ones. That's why you start with them. That means the ka is likely not at it's strongest and then needs to be honed in on. That may lower the ku ss a bit. Simply tuning in the ku doesn't automatically mean the ka will be peaked, although they could be.

 

[Joe Diamond]

You may be getting questionable advice.

"Plumb", is a myth. Plumb is only an arbitrary direction determined by gravity, and gravity has no bearing on where a free-standing dish points towards the sky. The dish has no earthly idea whether the mast is plumb or not, nor does it care. It points where it points.

The concept of a plumb mast is only a convenience to installation or alignment, and not an absolute necessity. You can point the dish exactly where it is required regardless of how plumb the mast is, its just that it is more difficult if it is not plumb, meaning that certain adjustments will affect other adjustments and you need to know how to compensate for that, which is a bit more intensive and requires that you understand what the fact that the mast is not plumb is doing to the adjustment routine.

It's a little like eating soup with a fork, but it can be done, even on a multisat dish. I've been called to a number of sites that had a non-plumb mast already cast in concrete, and got the same numbers there as on a plumb mast; its just a bit more difficult because one adjustment works against the other. But of course if you have the option, plumb up the mast as a first step simply to make your life easier.

As for "lowering" one reading to raise another, complete hogwash. There is no "compromise" in alignment. There is a compromise in a multisat dish regarding the fact that only one dimension can be parabolic (and the other must be spherical) which means you need comparatively more reflector for an equal amount of signal at the focal point (compared to a fully parabolic one-focal point dish) but that compromise is accounted for by using a larger reflector in the design.

The dish is designed optimally to receive the 5 sats. Since they know where they are before they design it, it can be made precisely to see that part of the arc necessary without compromising one signal for the other. If you align and properly dither any two Ku sats, the Ka sats fall automagically in line, which is the suggested method since most installers don't have any way to see Ka sats anyway. If an installer has to compensate by lowering one reading to achieve an optimal reading on a different sat, then the dish is just simply not properly aligned (skew is probably not dead on), period.

Tyrone,
Everything you said is correct. The trick is selecting words that communicate. Let us hear from our friend Raoul after he has tried a little tuning.

I always smile about that properly dithering deal. These dishes were in the field before the KA sats were running. So techs were asked to properly dither for sats that were not yet in service.

Maybe the phrase I used "compromise" was misleading. There is also a good service factor built into the system so it will work with less than perfect tuning. Atmospheric conditions change things anyway. It is hard to be perfect.

Come on Raoul! Make me proud!

Joe

 

[raoul5788]

Tyrone,
Everything you said is correct. The trick is selecting words that communicate. Let us hear from our friend Raoul after he has tried a little tuning.

I always smile about that properly dithering deal. These dishes were in the field before the KA sats were running. So techs were asked to properly dither for sats that were not yet in service.

Maybe the phrase I used "compromise" was misleading. There is also a good service factor built into the system so it will work with less than perfect tuning. Atmospheric conditions change things anyway. It is hard to be perfect.

Come on Raoul! Make me proud!

Joe

What are you talking about?