How to get Eye Popping HD ?

[Joewee]

Over the weekend I was at my local Best Buy and they had a blue ray player and HD DVD Player set up with some sample discs running. The HD was eye popping amazing on both so I checked out the specs of the setup. The TV's they were running them on were Sony 42" LCD's that were 1080p and both were 15,000 - 1 contrast ratio.
By the same token I went to sams club where they had a 1080p plasma set up with a HD DVD and the picture wasn't eye popping but I noticed the contrast ratio was only 1500-1. Does this mean if I get a HD set for my HD DVD player I can get the eye popping HD if I get a 1080p set with a high contrast ratio such as the 15000 - 1 sony LCD? Is the 1080p and contrast ratio the keys for eye popping HD?

I did notice the 2 sony LCD's, despite only being 42", were expensive, around $3000. However, Sam's club had a 1080p, 50" with a 10,000 - 1 contrast ratio for $1800.00

 

[rcbridge]

This discussion is in the wrong forum, but there are many factors to consider when looking for that eye-popping HD.
Source material, room lighting, set up of the display most (if not all) displays if properly calibrated do not have the contrast level maxed out.
More than likely the set you were watching in best buy was set up for the existing light conditions better then the one in Sam's club.

 

[Peter Parker]

The contact ratio is important but I ahve read that it is not standardized so making cross brand comparisons is hard. But I agree this belongs in another forum.

 

[8bitbytes]

Setups in a store are done primarily to sell the product, when they are setup at all. If you know what you are doing and the store will let you tweak the set, you should take your own dvd to test the sets to see what they can do. Obviously, the low cost panels are not going to necessarily perform like the higher quality panels, BUT, that's not the only factor involved in making a picture POP.

Contrast is important and stores will usually pump the contrast, brightness, color and the color temperature way up to get that pop you see. It's easier to do that with sports so keep that in mind also. There are a few good forums for researching flat panels and you should spend some time there to learn how these companies create the contrast ratios and make their sets look so good before buying one.

If a store is smart enough they can even tweak the sets so that the model they need to move looks the best even though another set next to it is the better tv. If you have your own material and can set the flat panel to the correct settings, you will get a better idea of how it may perform in your home.

Keep in mind that the store lighting, the room or area it is sitting in, and the material presented can all make a difference in what you "see". In the warehouse stores, these tvs are typically just turned on and not tweaked for effect unless someone there has a special interest in that kind of thing.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

More then likely, the set at Best Buy was tweeked (or possibly even claibrated) for best picture quality, while in Sams Club, they just unbox a set and plug it in and the picture shown is using the factory setting (usually washed out)

Sams Club is there to sell/move TV's, the guy who sets up the TV's is also the guy who also stocks the 5 gallon jars on mayonase.

Best Buy is trying to wow you with a TV, its what they do.

 

[tigerfan33]

I would advise for anyone who is going to buy a hdtv at a retail store, ask to see the tv that is calibrated. Most have at least one tv there that is. It will not pop like the rest of them because the contrast is going to be alot lower. It will give you a feel of how it should look at home. I have also heard that when they do calibrate the tv, it should look more like a movie theater look instead of being so eye popping.

 

[Joewee]

Thanks for the replys, however, I am well aware of tweaking, lighting etc...
This was more than just tweaking and lighting, this was set up on 3 different LCD tv's, 2 blue ray players, 1 HD DVD player. The Blu Ray players had the same demo Blu Ray dvd playing which was movie clips etc.. the same was with the HD DVD player, it was movie demo's etc...The clairity, color and pop was definately more than what I have seen. I understand currently this quality is only available with HD DVD and Blu Ray due to the band width and 1080p output to a capable tv. I am not hearing anyone say that the factors I mentioned will result in the pristine picture that was viewed
Factors
Contrast Ratio
1080p Output
1080p Capable TV
The Source Material (HD DVD, Blu Ray)
BTW my local best buy has a lot of incompetent workers who don't know the difference between 720p and 1080p. Even if was tweaked, so what, I want to know that when I upgrade my television that I can get such a great picture without having to bring my HD DVD setup in and hook it up.

 

[JeremyL]

I would advise for anyone who is going to buy a hdtv at a retail store, ask to see the tv that is calibrated. Most have at least one tv there that is. It will not pop like the rest of them because the contrast is going to be alot lower. It will give you a feel of how it should look at home. I have also heard that when they do calibrate the tv, it should look more like a movie theater look instead of being so eye popping.

I agree totally with this. The HD channels used to pop on my set, but then I got it professional calibrated. Without all the edge enhancements and contrast dialed up, the picture doesn't jump out at you anymore, but I know what I'm seeing is more life-like and more detailed.

All that added contrast and edge enhancement robs the picture of resolution, even if it's more eye-catching at first.

 

[8bitbytes]

Even if was tweaked, so what, I want to know that when I upgrade my television that I can get such a great picture without having to bring my HD DVD setup in and hook it up.

Demo discs frequently have the highest quality video possible to present the tv in its best light. One of the biggest complaints about BluRay and to a lesser extent HDDVD is thatthe transfers are poor quality and don't look any better than the DVD on an unpscaling dvd player.

If you are already familiar with set calibration, you did not indicate that in your first post and you should already know the answer to your question.

If you want more info, go to the correct forum and do your homework!

As for not wanting to drag your HDDVD player to the store to test out tvs - If I was going to spend $3K or more on a tv, I'd have pro equipment hooked up to every model I was looking at. Of course, if you want someone else to decide for you....

 

[rcbridge]

Is the 1080p and contrast ratio the keys for eye popping HD?

These factors are important and will allow you to achieve that eye popping HD, but all the other factors mentioned in the previous post if not set correctly will affect the outcome.

Can you achieve that eye popping picture with 1080i or 720p again if the other factors are optimized the answer is yes!!

 

[Joewee]

Maybe I am missing something here or misunderstanding these replies but I am reading a lot of negativity. This is what I don't understand:

1. there are constantly posts on forums all over the internet that Dish and Directv are producing HD Lite by starving bandwidth etc.. and people are complaining about picture quality etc...

2. I introduce what seems to be a way to get superior HD picture quality that the average person on the street would drop their jaw and want to get a HDTV right away (if they had the money)

and the replies I get are it's lighting, they have the tv's tweaked, the demo discs are higher quality, do some research etc...

No one can agree that having a 1080p capable tv with a true 1080p input and say a 15000 -1 contrast ratio is better than having the same 1080p input on 720p tv?(I won't get into the 1080i is the same as 1080p debate)

You are making it sound as though all we have to do is tweak our tv correctly, have the right lighting etc.. and we can acheive the same results.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Joewee,

The Calibration has ALOT to do with the picture quality.

I personally have had two of my sets ISF calibrated by Gregg Loewen of LionAV and he turned what I thought was a good picture, into an AMAZING picture!

Also room lighting also has a lot to do with picture quality.

Check this out for more on room lighting and PQ...
CinemaQuestv2.0

 

[patmurphey]

Joewee,

You may be able to do 1080p from a DVD, but it has NOTHING to do with HDTV - from satellite or any other provider.

 

[abricko]

most sets come from the factory set to super bright and over saturated color mode, in a sony this is called VIVID mode...

which most will accept as "eye popping HD"

reality is when you get the set home your room lighting is very important also you'll calibrate the TV and basically turn the brightness down almost all the way (depending on the set) and the contrast will go also. basically you are trying to get the movie theater *dark* (for a lack of a better term) look on your TV. Only then will you be able to see the true detail and color depth of what HDDVD or BluRay can offer.

To be honest, your first few weeks you'll probably not like the new calibrated display, but you quickly get used to it and if you do the calibration soon after you get your TV you'll not have a long time to get used to the newer / better picture.

 

[NightRyder]

Maybe I am missing something here or misunderstanding these replies but I am reading a lot of negativity. This is what I don't understand:

1. there are constantly posts on forums all over the internet that Dish and Directv are producing HD Lite by starving bandwidth etc.. and people are complaining about picture quality etc...

2. I introduce what seems to be a way to get superior HD picture quality that the average person on the street would drop their jaw and want to get a HDTV right away (if they had the money)

and the replies I get are it's lighting, they have the tv's tweaked, the demo discs are higher quality, do some research etc...

No one can agree that having a 1080p capable tv with a true 1080p input and say a 15000 -1 contrast ratio is better than having the same 1080p input on 720p tv?(I won't get into the 1080i is the same as 1080p debate)

You are making it sound as though all we have to do is tweak our tv correctly, have the right lighting etc.. and we can acheive the same results.

There is an ongoing debate among the home theater media as to whether 1080P provides any visible benefit on screen sizes 50" or smaller within normal viewing distances, but even if it does you can't just quote simple specs and say that any given set will have a superior picture, there are too many variables, not the least of which is personal preference. I've seen properly adjusted 720P sets that have a better picture than some 1080P sets when fed the same 1080P source material.

For a quality picture:

At a minimum a layperson needs several test patterns and a base understanding of what picture components the contrast, brightness, sharpness, color and tint controls are intended to be used for. Better would be a calibration DVD or best professional calibration. Room lighting? It matters...A lot!

NightRyder

 

[8bitbytes]

2. I introduce what seems to be a way to get superior HD picture quality that the average person on the street would drop their jaw and want to get a HDTV right away (if they had the money)

What? The reason you think you are getting negative responses is because you are confusing the forum with your responses to the answers to YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION.

"Does this mean if I get a HD set for my HD DVD player I can get the eye popping HD if I get a 1080p set with a high contrast ratio such as the 15000 - 1 sony LCD? Is the 1080p and contrast ratio the keys for eye popping HD?"

This is your question. Now you claim you were introducing a way to get fabulous HD and everyone is shooting you down. Ridiculous.

Contrast is only part of the equation.
1080p is only part of the equation.
Those two points might allow you to sell your expensive Sony to a customer but it doesn't answer your original question.

In a store, tvs and demo material can be setup to be ubelievable and then the customer gets home and can't duplicate the effect. Why?

As was said:
Calibration to include contrast, color temperature and gamma.
Room settings to include ambient light, direct light, room color and seating.
Source content to include resolution, bitrate, and original print quality.

You asked a question, here is the answer: No and No.

 

[8bitbytes]

No one can agree that having a 1080p capable tv with a true 1080p input and say a 15000 -1 contrast ratio is better than having the same 1080p input on 720p tv?

You are making it sound as though all we have to do is tweak our tv correctly, have the right lighting etc.. and we can acheive the same results.

Those contrast claims are ON/OFF contrast and you will never see that on your screen. Actual contrast is much lower and depends on the image content and the technology displaying it under ambient lighting conditions. Plasma has always had LCD beat in the ansi contrast arena because of its technology. LCD is getting better but mainly due to the backlighting technology used in it. Let a window shine some sunshine toward that flat panel and you aren't gonna have a jaw dropping experience regardless of technology.

As for needing 1080p display for a jaw dropping experience, you should have seen the Cowboy game last night with me on my 720p projector shining on my 92 inch screen. WOW! PQ was top shelf last night!!! I had my 622 set to 1080i and my HD70 converted it to 720p and you could count nose hairs on the offensive line. OH YEAH!!!!

 

[waltinvt]

Maybe I am missing something here or misunderstanding these replies but I am reading a lot of negativity. This is what I don't understand:

1. there are constantly posts on forums all over the internet that Dish and Directv are producing HD Lite by starving bandwidth etc.. and people are complaining about picture quality etc...

2. I introduce what seems to be a way to get superior HD picture quality that the average person on the street would drop their jaw and want to get a HDTV right away (if they had the money)

and the replies I get are it's lighting, they have the tv's tweaked, the demo discs are higher quality, do some research etc...

No one can agree that having a 1080p capable tv with a true 1080p input and say a 15000 -1 contrast ratio is better than having the same 1080p input on 720p tv?(I won't get into the 1080i is the same as 1080p debate)

You are making it sound as though all we have to do is tweak our tv correctly, have the right lighting etc.. and we can acheive the same results.

Some people want to tell you what you should or shouldn't like instead of just answering your question. My suggestion would be to have Best Buy explain how theirs is setup so you can duplicate it if that's what you want.

It's your business what you like and if it's high-contrast, "eye-pop" you like, then go for it. If after a while you want to change it, then come back here and we'll give you thirty-eleven opinions about that too.

 

[8bitbytes]

Some people want to tell you what you should or shouldn't like instead of just answering your question.

You didn't answer his question either!

 

[Dog6869]

More then likely, the set at Best Buy was tweeked (or possibly even claibrated) for best picture quality, while in Sams Club, they just unbox a set and plug it in and the picture shown is using the factory setting (usually washed out)

Sams Club is there to sell/move TV's, the guy who sets up the TV's is also the guy who also stocks the 5 gallon jars on mayonase.

Best Buy is trying to wow you with a TV, its what they do.

Bravo Bravo Scott!!! I could not have said it better.. Your quote made me laugh.. BUT very true... 5 gallon jars on mayonnaise, Your killing me.. Thanks’ for all your great insight.